Blizzard: Valve Shouldn't Trademark DotA

[Exort]

[

Blizzard do not care about DotA being a free title for anyone to use. They only care about who gets to make money off it. They never supported DotA, ever. Now hopefully it will take off massively with Valve's support.
They never attempted to do ANYTHING with it. In fact they actively worked against many measures introduced in an attempt to improve DotA.

Edit: actually someone said this but I haven't been able to find any info on it. In any case, I'd be willing to pay for DOTA2.
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What? BLizzard improved the WC3 editor several times to make DotA Map easier to be created. They even release Their version of map as sample maps. (I remember something about Triggers improvement, but Im not sure)

Seriously? I never heard of any counter measures. The Dev themself plays DotA a lot. I remember some of their game have little reference to DotA.

 

[Doug]

Not like Valve wanting money for everything from adding Micro-transaction to a Pull paid game TF2.

The micro-transactions are for things that you have a random chance of getting anyways. Like, say, selling World of Warcraft mounts and end-game players... like Blizzard where doing first! And the Blizzard thing gave you a huge advantage over other players. The weapons in TF2 are so balanced, realistically, they just mean you have to be aware of how to use the weapons best.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I find it interesting how they haven't uttered a peep about the topic until now.

Only now that the DotA name looks profitable, do they file a counter-claim.
Blizzard may not be the benevolent savior in this case, but we will only know for sure once the dust settles.

 

[Megawizard]

If Valve doesn't Blizzard will.

That. I'd bet money on it that they just got beaten to the punch. And even if Blizz wouldn't, Activision WOULD considering the royal douche that runs them.

 

[fundayz]

SNIP

Do you honestly think that Valve is going to do a complete 180 and start shutting down original DoTA servers?
Do you honestly think Valve would purposely try to obscure some of the original creators?

If the answer is yes, then you clearly don't know Valve. Do you even know that Valve has given close to $200,00 to players that helped create the new TF2 items?

It basically boils down to "does it affect anyone?", and right now we have no reason to believe that anyone will be directly affected by the trademark.

 

[Exort]

There is no reason to believe that Valve trademarking the game will hurt the community at all. period.

Should the other guys be credited for the basis and concepts for the second game? Sure, and I wouldn't be surprised if Valve sent them a nice fat check when they trademark the brand.

Unless they will not sue companys that make other DotA game, or Valve will hurt the community. It is like saying only Actvision can make Modern First Person Shooter. But if they won't sue people why trademark it.
Sorry but Valve or IceFrog don't own DotA. Eul is the real creator of DotA, and Gunisoo is the creator of DotA: Allstar.


And no Valve didn't send a fat check to Eul, because he dissappeared suddenly, and nowhere to be found. That is why DotA should be the community's, many and many of Fan mad map have been made, DotA: Allstars, DotA: Outland, DotA: Revenge.

Valve nor IceFrog have the right to take "DotA" this name as a whole.

Valve should go for a different name. It is like naming your child Barack Obama, then ask the real Barack Obama to change his name, because it is your son's name.

 

[Vigormortis]

I realize this. But I fear that most of the people complaining are themselves missing a few details. Just because a company owns the rights to a game's brand name does NOT mean they'll instantly put a stop to all mods for it. Take a look at Counter-Strike, Team Fortress, and Left 4 Dead. Valve not only allows mods to spring up but friggin' SUPPORTS them. Hell, they even add some of the better mods into official releases and updates. My point is, people are afraid that the "community" won't be able to contribute, add to, or mod DotA 2. If anyone had bothered to read Valve's announcement, they'd immediately realize that DotA 2 is being designed with contributing and modding in mind. The whole basis of Valve's version of the game is to create a friendlier, more open community for a game that desperately needs it. Let's face it, DotA at this point only really caters to those that are hardcore players of the game. New players really don't stand a chance and are often reviled and met with fervent hatred. Valve plans to rectify that. If that means they have to copyright the name, I'm all for it. I'd say the same if Blizzard had decided to do it. I just feel like it's better to have a professional company make the core product first, and have the community contribute and modify it afterward.

[edit] I'll be honest though. I'm not really concerned. I was never a big fan of Dota. Maybe it's because of the community, I don't know. All I know is, this whole thing is getting out of hand and misinformation is more abundant than the truth. From all parties involved. So, until this thing simmers down, I'm just not going to care.

Maybe if you think some people are afraid of that. I'm fully aware people will be able to mod Valves DotA.

What I don't want is Valve being able to shut down future DotA mods for other games, if they own a trademark then they could do that.

The way DotA is set up generally caters to people who have put the time in. I'm not sure how Valves DotA could change that but whatever I'll give them the benefit of the doubt there.

I just don't want them holding a trademark -.- They can go create a DotA for all I care, just don't trademark it.

I see where you're coming from, but consider this. As it is right now, it's the same. The very thing you're worried about with Valve's trademark is already happening. If someone wants to make a game called "DotA", it's essentially required to be on the WarCraft 3 engine. I mean, someone can make one on another game engine but, as many of you keep saying, if it's for the DotA "community", the only engine you can use is the WarCraft 3 engine. That's just as bad as Valve trademarking the name.

Besides, let's not forget here that they're trademarking the name "Defense of the Ancients 2", not just the general name "Defense of the Ancients". There IS a difference. Literally and legally. So, in essence, if the trademark goes through, then they own the rights to anything relating to DotA 2, but anyone is free to do as the please with anything titled "DotA".

 

[Exort]

Blizzard: Valve Shouldn't Trademark DotA

Blizzard thinks that DotA is owned by the community, not Valve.

Earlier this month, Valve been challenged [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104353-Valve-Confirms-DotA-2-for-2011] by some of DotA's original creators that believe nobody should have the rights to own the property. Today, Valve has another much bigger challenger in the form of Blizzard Entertainment, which doesn't think trademarking DotA is the "right thing to do."

Blizzard vice president Rob Pardo recently spoke to Eurogamer about the issue and said: "To us, that means that you're really taking it away from the Blizzard and StarCraft II [http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009ECGK/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?ie=UTF8&cloe_id=c328ab78-039c-4c6a-831c-f46acf2a733f&pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00005V9Q1&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1V5E8C45R6HWQQ33D7AC].

Pardo also says he is "confused" that a completely separate company would try to trademark DotA. "Certainly, DotA came out of the Blizzard community," he added. "It just seems a really strange move to us that Valve would go off and try to exclusively trademark the term considering it's something that's been freely available to us and everyone in the Warcraft III community up to this point."

If Valve were to challenge Blizzard on the use of DotA for its upcoming StarCraft II gametype, Pardo says: "Our response is that they don't own the term DotA at this point, it's something that they're filing for. Our contention is that it should continue to be available to Blizzard and to our community."

Considering how large these two companies are I would expect that Valve has already heard about Blizzard's thoughts on the matter. Unless Valve really wants to trademark DotA and keeping silent is a necessary part of that, a response is likely coming soon. To me it seems like a touchy issue, because Valve should be able to produce a professionally created version of DotA, and studios usually have to protect their investments by trademarking game names. What do you think: Should any single company be able to own the DotA name?

Source: Eurogamer [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-10-23-valve-shouldnt-trademark-dota-blizzard]

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I love how in the whole post Eurogamer never mention BLizzard DotA is a Free map.
bais too much?

 

[SilentSh0tz]

WOW, valve is actually doing this? I agree with Blizzard 100%, that game was made by the people, for the people; and is OWNED by the people haha

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

Do you honestly think that Valve is going to do a complete 180 and start shutting down original DoTA servers?
Do you honestly think Valve would purposely try to obscure some of the original creators?

If the answer is yes, then you clearly don't know Valve. Do you even know that Valve has given close to $200,00 to players that helped create the new TF2 items?

It basically boils down to "does it affect anyone?", and right now we have no reason to believe that anyone will be directly affected by the trademark.

What? No they won't do a 180... that would blow up in their face faster than Gabe could eat a hot dog.

You completely misunderstood what I was talking about.

I'm talking about all future projects, did you read the blog page? If you did then you'll know Icefrog has a lot of control over this project. If they start trademarking then I would say Icefrog is probably the big threat to future DotA mods.

It affects the future, I don't want mod teams getting desist letters because they want to make a DotA mod for whatever game they're working on.

 

[Exort]

Not like Valve wanting money for everything from adding Micro-transaction to a Pull paid game TF2.

The micro-transactions are for things that you have a random chance of getting anyways. Like, say, selling World of Warcraft mounts and end-game players... like Blizzard where doing first! And the Blizzard thing gave you a huge advantage over other players. The weapons in TF2 are so balanced, realistically, they just mean you have to be aware of how to use the weapons best.

World of Warcraft never sell anything that effect Gameplay. So how did they gave you huge adventage over other player...

Oh the Mount you buy, you still need the training to ride it. (everyone should have the training anyways...)The bought mount is not faster or anything. How is it overpowered?

On the other hand, Valve is selling power. For example, if you need to play 2 month averege to get a item you want. Then Valve is selling 2 month of power to the player. (Most people probably need long than 2 month.)

Really, I don't see how Name change or server change can make people overpowered.

 

[bob1052]

Not like Valve wanting money for everything from adding Micro-transaction to a Pull paid game TF2.

The micro-transactions are for things that you have a random chance of getting anyways. Like, say, selling World of Warcraft mounts and end-game players... like Blizzard where doing first! And the Blizzard thing gave you a huge advantage over other players. The weapons in TF2 are so balanced, realistically, they just mean you have to be aware of how to use the weapons best.

Except that the weapons and hats Valve sells can take a very long time to obtain, and getting them faster does make a difference.

What if Blizzard sold all the highest end pieces of gear? You can still get them without paying, it would just take time. That would be similar to Valve's Mannconomy. Right now Blizzard's micro transactions are just pointless cosmetics that don't change the game.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

I see where you're coming from, but consider this. As it is right now, it's the same. The very thing you're worried about with Valve's trademark is already happening. If someone wants to make a game called "DotA", it's essentially required to be on the WarCraft 3 engine. I mean, someone can make one on another game engine but, as many of you keep saying, if it's for the DotA "community", the only engine you can use is the WarCraft 3 engine. That's just as bad as Valve trademarking the name.

Besides, let's not forget here that they're trademarking the name "Defense of the Ancients 2", not just the general name "Defense of the Ancients". There IS a difference. Literally and legally. So, in essence, if the trademark goes through, then they own the rights to anything relating to DotA 2, but anyone is free to do as the please with anything titled "DotA".

If someone makes a game called DotA it can be on any engine. It's a free name with no significant legal ties to any company, and the company that really has the most say in the matter doesn't want to restrict rights on it.

I just see it being bad for future DotA projects if Valve decide they should have control of the trademark.

It seems to be Icefrogs idea to call it DotA in the first place, they could easily have changed the name to something like LoL or HoN, but this Icefrog guy has got everyone so riled up that Valve are coming across as complete dicks.

If you haven't already, read this blog. http://icefrogtruth.blogspot.com/

 

[fundayz]

What? No they won't do a 180... that would blow up in their face faster than Gabe could eat a hot dog.

You completely misunderstood what I was talking about.

I'm talking about all future projects, did you read the blog page? If you did then you'll know Icefrog has a lot of control over this project. If they start trademarking then I would say Icefrog is probably the big threat to future DotA mods.

It affects the future, I don't want mod teams getting desist letters because they want to make a DotA mod for whatever game they're working on.

First of all, Valve is trademarking the name not the genre. If anyone wanted to make a DoTA-like mod for whatever game they could. They just couldn't name it DoTA 2.

The issues is more of IceFrog being a prick than Valve trademarking the name. Valve would never force modders to desist their work on an already created game.

Even if Abdul wanted to trademark the name there is nothing wrong with that either. He helped make the game and if he wants to he can trademark it, he would just have to share the TM with the other co-creators.

 

[Exort]

First of all, Valve is trademarking the name not the genre. If anyone wanted to make a DoTA-like mod for whatever game they could. They just couldn't name it DoTA 2.

The issues is more of IceFrog being a prick than Valve trademarking the name. Valve would never force modders to desist their work on an already created game.

Even if Abdul wanted to trademark the name there is nothing wrong with that either. He helped make the game and if he wants to he can trademark it, he would just have to share the TM with the other co-creators.

That is like Trademarking First person shooter.
And IceFrog never created DotA or DotA: Allstar, what give him the right to do so?

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

First of all, Valve is trademarking the name not the genre. If anyone wanted to make a DoTA-like mod for whatever game they could. They just couldn't name it DoTA 2.

Anyway trademarking allows Valve to attempt to shut down any project that basically infringe on how much money they are making. I don't like that fact. If Valve can go round shutting down other peoples DotA projects that might compete with them then they have too much control.

The issues is more of IceFrog being a prick than Valve trademarking the name. Valve would never force modders to desist their work on an already created game.

For the last time there is no way in hell Valve could retroactively shut down DotA projects and no matter how many times you try and explain that to me it doesn't change the fact that I already know it...

Even if Abdul wanted to trademark the name there is nothing wrong with that either. He helped make the game and if he wants to he can trademark it, he would just have to share the TM with the other co-creators.

Well no he wouldn't, if there was no competition he could trademark the name himself. However the others don't want the name trademarked so it could become very messy in a legal battle.

Valve however is a front, they have no affiliation with the initial creation of DotA. This gives Icefrog a bit of immunity and since Valve is a big games company with a fuckton of money, they are better equipped to deal with any legal issues that arise.

 

[LorChan]

I don't know a damn thing about DotA, other than there's a cool rave song about it somewhere out there, so I ask your pardon if I'm completely wrong, but...
If Blizzard didn't have the know-how to copyright their game/expansion/whatever, they shouldn't be whining. It's their own damn incompetence, and while Valve isn't necessarily in the right, they're not really in the wrong, either.

 

[fundayz]

Anyway trademarking allows Valve to attempt to shut down any project that basically infringe on how much money they are making. I don't like that fact. If Valve can go round shutting down other peoples DotA projects that might compete with them then they have too much control.

I see this as a non-issue since Valve won't do that. Let's save the uproar for when they do.

For the last time there is no way in hell Valve could retroactively shut down DotA projects and no matter how many times you try and explain that to me it doesn't change the fact that I already know it...

I'm talking about future developments to the original DoTA, which you were claiming Valve would start cracking down on. Same thing as above; could they? yes. Will they? Highly unlikely.

Well no he wouldn't, if there was no competition he could trademark the name himself. However the others don't want the name trademarked so it could become very messy in a legal battle.

Valve however is a front, they have no affiliation with the initial creation of DotA. This gives Icefrog a bit of immunity and since Valve is a big games company with a fuckton of money, they are better equipped to deal with any legal issues that arise.

Yes it could become a messy legal battle. That doesn't make it morally wrong or right, it would just be a dispute over creators of some IP. This happens all the time.

However, this is not the case. While I don't trust IceFrog, it is Valve that is making and trademarking the game, and I have faith in Valve to act fairly. If the other co-creators wants a slice of the pie, which they are completely entitled to, I am sure Valve would comply.

 

[fundayz]

That is like Trademarking First person shooter.
And IceFrog never created DotA or DotA: Allstar, what give him the right to do so?

Good try, but you're not even close. DoTA is not a game GENRE, it is a GAME. We don't call first person shooters DOOM's now do we?

Everyone would be free to create DoTA-like games and mods. They just couldn't name DoTA 2.

 

[UnmotivatedSlacker]

Activision Blizzard:
Pissed they didn't think of it first.

One more idea Kotick will love though, copyrighting other people's ideas and getting money for it.

Awesome. ¬_¬

They had years to do it. The point they're making is that no one should own it.

Would you rather have nobody own it and there be no sequel?
Or Valve (who can do no wrong) own it and release a kickass sequel?

Wow, Valve can do no wrong? You really sound like a fanboy. They don't need to trademark it to make a game out of it. The only reason they would need to trademark it would be to keep everyone else from using it. Which they have no right to do considering they had no part in creating it. And no I'm neither a fan of Blizzard or Valve, but based on my observations, Valve is in the wrong. It's a community project and it should stay that way. If Blizzard understands this why can't Valve?