Borderlands 2 "Girlfriend Mode" Helps Noobs Win

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Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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Frybird said:
You know the thing that makes me angry about your post is that you are basically advocating against game developers speaking openly and freely about thier games.

Yes, THERE ARE so many ways he could've worded it. Yes, HE USED A STEREOTYPE to describe this game feature.
But do you really, TRUELY think he wouldn't word it better if he did come up with a better term? Give me a break.

It was a poor choice of words, yes, but that happens in an open, unscripted conversation.

And you know what? I rather have game developers slipping up from time to time than not have them speak at all.

Because that is what you seem to want. We are talking about a lead designer here, not some public relations guy with a college degree in communication. So such things will happen unless game developers are only allowed to read pre-prepared, carefully worded, politically correct statements. And we have enough of this s**t in politics.

The thing that blows my mind is that just about everyone knows what he meant, and that he didn't meant to insult anyone, but still everyone bitches about it and makes it a big thing.

INCLUDING F**KING KOTAKU, who just a week before bitched and moaned about how game developers don't talk enough to the press...well...there you have the reason why.

Games journalism comes dangerously close to being on a level with newspapers like The Sun, Bild or The New York Post, and the games community goes right along with it for falling into every blown up controversy.

I weep for my hobby and my passion.
You know what makes me angry about your post? You're basically advocating the silencing of legitimate complaints of developers because you're afraid of how they'll feel about it. Seriously, are you trying to tell me I don't have a right to express the fact that his words offended me because you're fucking scared their feelings will be hurt, and that they'll hole up and never talk to us again?

You said it yourself they used a stereotype. Stereotypes are offensive, and he deserves to get called on for it. If KFC had some sort of press conference and their speaker made some sort of joke about chicken and a certain stereotype about black people, people would get mad at them about it, and for good reason. But you're sitting here saying "Oh, no! KFC hardly ever has press conferences! You can't complain about what they said because they might never speak to us again!"

Bullshit. I understand the gaming community has a terrible habit of making something of nothing, and it happens from both the male and female side. But I feel this is a legitimate complaint--and no, that doesn't always happen. Hell, I didn't mind what the dev of the new Tomb Raider game said about "wanting to protect her" (because in the full context of the article, I realized he was not referring to protecting her in the sense of protecting her because she's a female, but protecting her in the sense of wanting to see her through to the end and actually caring about what happens to her in-game). But this comment? No. Whether consciously or unconsciously, he gave a big middle finger to every female who plays games, and he needs to address what he said for the stereotype it is. It doesn't matter if he intended to insult anyone or not, the fact is he did, and when communicating in a public forum you have to take responsibility. That is the nature of public speaking.

Again, I realize the gaming community is probably causing developers to avoid these sorts of interviews and press conferences. But that certainly doesn't mean everybody with legitimate complaints should shut up, because even if we do that's certainly not going to stop any of the illegitimate complaints. So then rather than them getting both legitimate and illegitimate dissent, all they ever get is illegitimate dissent, and they have no reason to be careful about anything they say ever again.

Oh, and before you ask "But if you know he didn't mean to insult you, why do you want an apology from him?" I'll tell you why. It's because then I would know that he knows this isn't the 1990s anymore, and that females are a present and active force in the market and the sort of shit that might slide in his little development group is not going to slide with us.

Oh, and some alternatives which have been used MUCH more often than "girlfriend mode" when describing such game modes: Easy mode, beginner mode, relaxation mode, zen mode, novice. I could go on, but I think you get the point. "Girlfriend mode" was not the most accurate or the most prevalent term for the mode, and clearly a bit of slang he likes to use around the office and let slide during the interview.
 

D Moness

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Fiz_The_Toaster said:
That was my understanding too, and didn't he hint that the Mechromancer will have some abilities for players that want a challenge there will be a tree for that?

Ah well, it has been an amusing read nonetheless. :D
Yep so the character would be a substitute for the easy and difficult mode.

Honestly i like how the design looks. Also that BFF skilltree sounds interesting for me since i do like to play a few shooters now and then but i really suck at aiming(proven today again when i was replaying alpha protocol >.<). To bad it is a DLC that will be released 2 months after the game is released.

What is more funny is certain people claiming i should not play shooters because i suck at it, I play games that entertain me not because i am good or bad at them.
 

Fiz_The_Toaster

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D Moness said:
Fiz_The_Toaster said:
That was my understanding too, and didn't he hint that the Mechromancer will have some abilities for players that want a challenge there will be a tree for that?

Ah well, it has been an amusing read nonetheless. :D
Yep so the character would be a substitute for the easy and difficult mode.

Honestly i like how the design looks. Also that BFF skilltree sounds interesting for me since i do like to play a few shooters now and then but i really suck at aiming(proven today again when i was replaying alpha protocol >.<). To bad it is a DLC that will be released 2 months after the game is released.

What is more funny is certain people claiming i should not play shooters because i suck at it, I play games that entertain me not because i am good or bad at them.
I'm curious to know how the character's pet claptrap will work, it looks like a lot of fun.

I'm shit at shooters if I don't play them enough, and I don't. It takes me awhile to get back into the swing of things, but even still, my mind might go all retard on me and I will miss fantastically. I totally forgot about the DLC bit, and from what the devs have been saying the story is gonna take a while to finish, not that I'm complaining, but I just hope it's good.

I've had people tell me to stop playing Dark Souls because I'm shit at it, but I just can't quit it! :D
 

Schadrach

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Trilligan said:
Plus I've never had anyone explain how casual gaming isn't gaming. But that distinction is pretty fuzzy, as it is.

Damn it! I let myself get drawn in to the debate again. Nevermind, ignore me.
Probably because the "core gaming audience" and the "casual gaming audience" are basically entirely distinct market niches. Someone who plays MMOS, the Borderlands audience and the Darksiders audience have more in common than someone who sneaks some Farmville in from time to time.

If I'm selling, say, Halo XVII, I don't care about the Farmville players, because they historically haven't been interested.
 

Sparrow

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Moonlight Butterfly said:
Sparrow said:
Moonlight Butterfly said:
Sparrow said:
Aaaaand I'm suddenly reminded why I wanted this game. Haven't heard much about it lately, nice to get a little news on the Gearbox front.

Chairman Miaow said:
INB4 bitching about pre-order DLC and calling sexism because he said girlfriend tree.

Anyway. This sounds like a great idea, because my girlfriends main problem with borderlands was that she would die more often than me, and so if this perk tree can tip the scales a bit, we may get a LOT of playtime out of it.
Oh man, the post literally right after yours said it was sexist. It's shameful how ridiculous some of the users are getting on here. It's not sexism, you nit-picking white-knight wannabes. It's a funny name. Yeesh.
I'd be annoyed if that was actually what it was called and I'm a woman... it's not 'funny' and it is sexist.

I think most people would agree.
It really isn't sexist. It's a tongue in cheek joke. It's a funny little poke at the fact some guys play videogames with their girlfriends who have no idea what they're doing. The guy isn't saying "Women can't play videogames!", he's saying "Some folks can relate to this title in a humorous fashion!"

Honestly, if you feel insulted by it then you offend far too easily.
It is sexist because it singles out one sex and suggest they are not as good as another....that's pretty much the definition of sexism.

'Some folks' meaning men, while women can just sit there and be insulted yeah?

Edit: Oh look @Boudica fielded it for me.



Team Feminism.

(and yes we do spend most of our time fighting each other)
I guess I'm just having trouble relating, here. I mean, the way the guy said it wasn't venomous in any way. He made it pretty clear he was making a joke. If he was a dick about it (like, for instance, "We called it the Girlfriend Mode because women suck at playing videogames. Men are the superior gaming sex. Women are useless in every way") then I would side with you in a heartbeat, but... it's just a joke. If the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a joke about men being unable to do something, I'd probably laugh (if it was funny) but I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to feel insulted.

Honestly, I think I foresee the two of us just having to agree to disagree on this one.
 

Mouse One

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Trilligan said:
Paradoxrifts said:
Mouse One said:
Nope. Industry sponsored surveys find that about 40% or so of all gamers are female. Include casual games and it's higher. Average age of gamers is 33 (not the same as age of buyer, which averages in the forties). Percentages are lower for consoles, but still around 25%.
Wrong. You're either woefully ignorant of the subject, or an outright liar.

Take your pick.
Um . . .

Poster you quoted said approx 40% female gamers. Plus more with casuals.

Your own numbers list 17% young females plus 30% older females for a total of 47% which includes casuals.

So I guess I'm not seeing the distinction, because those numbers are pretty close, given a decent margin of error on either side. Plus your numbers are larger.

Plus I've never had anyone explain how casual gaming isn't gaming. But that distinction is pretty fuzzy, as it is.

Aw, he got me. I'm an outright liar ;)

Seriously though, it does quite obviously depend on the platform and genre. Heck, one study that included casual games found that the average gamer was a woman in her early forties. Of course, this was at the height of the Facebook casual game craze. At the other extreme, console players are largely younger males-- again, only about 25% female in that group. MMOs and the like fall somewhere in the middle.

It's funny that so many gamers have the same "teenage boys and Comic Book Guys" stereotype about gamers that non-gamers do. We should know better.
 

Paradoxrifts

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Trilligan said:
Paradoxrifts said:
Mouse One said:
*Snip*
*Snip*
My point was that as the Entertainment Software Association's figures are a list of percentages, how you read and interpret them can make a world of difference on the information you walk away with. That's kinda the point of why the information is presented in the fashion that it is.

But both casual and social games are as much genres unto themselves as anything you might find being created in any of the AAA or AA development studios. Yet going ahead and then making an argument that the mere existence of audiences for these particular genres somehow makes one jolt of difference in the discussion of the demographical representation of the audience of an FPS, any FPS, unless you can demonstrably prove some link between the two is just plain stupid and/or dishonest.

Which incidentally is precisely the argument one makes when they fall back on them to pretend that female gamers have a greater percentage of participation in a genre then they can actually be proved or disproved with the relevant percentage provided by the ESA.

Also casual gaming is gaming, social gaming is gaming and I've never claimed otherwise.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Chairman Miaow said:
INB4 bitching about pre-order DLC and calling sexism because he said girlfriend tree.

Anyway. This sounds like a great idea, because my girlfriends main problem with borderlands was that she would die more often than me, and so if this perk tree can tip the scales a bit, we may get a LOT of playtime out of it.
hah wowza, thank you for being much quicker than the PC people, twas a close one.

OT: It's actually a bit intriguing, but i don't have money to put the pre order down now so i'll be getting the game later and perhaps her if she doesn't cost a shit ton to buy.

and really? getting worked up over that tiny ass around the bush word choice?

I swear sometimes that I was installed with this thing called a "spine" at birth.
 

Kroxile

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DVS BSTrD said:
If you can't aim a pistol you shouldn't be playing Borderlands. Period.
Because Mordecai in the first one didn't already make "aiming optional"? lol

To no small surprise the very first facebook comment on this was crying sexism. Is it so much to ask the internet to stop being sooo goddamn butthurt every fucking time someone says something that's not 10000000% Politically Correct? My fucking god...
 

Something Amyss

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gmaverick019 said:
hah wowza, thank you for being much quicker than the PC people, twas a close one.
lol yeah, the ONLY way someone would think it was dumb was if they were politically correct.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Zachary Amaranth said:
gmaverick019 said:
hah wowza, thank you for being much quicker than the PC people, twas a close one.
lol yeah, the ONLY way someone would think it was dumb was if they were politically correct.
err...where did i say that it wasn't dumb? Just because I might find something absolutely disgusting or something that I don't agree with, doesn't mean I have to sneer it to death.




*sits patiently waiting*
 

Schadrach

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The Jakeinator said:
What if me quote unquote "girlfriend" is better at games then I am?

Because she was damn good at Monday Night Combat, in my opinion.
Then if you play Borderlands 2, and you choose the Mechromancer (something I was already considering, before any models or BFF tree was mentioned because the name just sounds cool), and you spec the BFF tree, you can make jokes about boyfriend mode?
 

Hagi

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Not the best choice of words but understandable I'd say.

I wouldn't be surprised if one common piece of feedback they received was the request for an easier character or mode of play so their girlfriend could play along, which would lead to this being dubbed the "girlfriend mode".

It's a poor choice of words and fair game for calling the guy out on that. But I also think there's a positive side to it. It can be nothing but good if there's a lot of gamers out there who wish to introduce new people to the hobby (whether they're a girlfriend or not).

Still, let's hope they spend a bit more time thinking about what they're going to say in the future. Nobody wants to hear about a "boyfriend mode" in the next Sims game where you murder everyone FPS-style with tons of huge explosions.
 

Frybird

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Lilani said:
You know what makes me angry about your post? You're basically advocating the silencing of legitimate complaints of developers because you're afraid of how they'll feel about it. Seriously, are you trying to tell me I don't have a right to express the fact that his words offended me because you're fucking scared their feelings will be hurt, and that they'll hole up and never talk to us again? [...]
No i don't.

I said that i fear that with all this hyperbole directed against developers, who are naturally better at thier jobs (in this case, designing) than giving interviews, that these interview opportunities will be replaced by carefully worded, pedantically correct official statements by some official spokesperson whose only knowledge of the game are on a factsheet given by a marketing department who filtered the words of passionate devs for maximum marketability.

What pisses me off is not the critism of the poor wording, it's the way that is being done. Wich is WAY, WAAAY out of proportion, with people like you assuming and adding intentions to it based on nothing...
I feel like that's a term that he's used to describe it before, which paints a very bad picture of both him and the development team[...]There are plenty of other terms, he just didn't bother to use any of them.
..., and, while claiming to understand his intentions, still clearly making a mountain out of a molehill.

There's a sickening witch hunt atmosphere around many internet-gaming-communities where it seems like people are required to take everything thats not 100% P.C. as a personal insult.

...And in all honesty, the lack of actually appropriate critism mixed with large amounts of hyperbole, actually hurts the cause behind it and rather helps those people who are ACTUALLY insulting others by throwing petty comments about "White Knights" or turning to sexist "hurr durr, chick gamers PMSing" comments.

There's no value in this whole thing, this whole reaction, just people kicking and screaming and crying over spilled milk (long after the whole thing was mostly defused by Randy Pitchford jumping in and clarifying things).

I am growing so so tired of the gamer community as a whole, or as the vocal minority or whatever...
 

-|-

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Girlfriend mode... hehehe.

I think they should also add another female character that wears dungarees and doc martens. She won't have a gun because she can kill bad guys by glowering at them with +50 earnestness. They can call her skill tree "Escapist mode"
 

Signa

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Not sure why there is controversy here. Girlfriends usually don't like playing games. If you have one that does, congrats, but it's not worth getting bothered about it for the sake of them.

Case in point: My brother plays Borderlands constantly. It's practically his favorite game. He tried sharing it with his GF, and she could barely hit the first bandits. The Mechromancer sounds exactly like what she needs to have fun with it.
 

Therumancer

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The problem I have with "Girlfriend Mode" is simply what happens when an experienced player uses that skill tree. Something that helps newbs and acts as an equalizer due to being unbalanced frequently becomes insane when used by an experienced player. Quite a few games have thought of similar things over the years it seems (unbalanced weapons to help new players in multi-player, etc...) and it generally doesn't work out. Given the cooperative nature of Borderlands I can see why this might be overlooked, but the game has in part thrived because of a degree of balance. I can easily see problems with dudes running "girlfriend mode" bogarting everyone's kills and generally being a pain in
the rear.


I'm not saying there aren't solutions or work arounds that could potentially work, just that what's said here doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I feel EZ mode doesn't belong in any game with any kind of multi-player or competitive aspect. I don't have a lot of people to playwith, so I'll be irritated if I join random games and see everyone running nothing but because it's the best and makes farming so easy.

.
 

Phasmal

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Xid Satled said:
99.9% of girls suck at video games, come at me.
Ok. You're wrong. Done.

Signa said:
Not sure why there is controversy here. Girlfriends usually don't like playing games. If you have one that does, congrats, but it's not worth getting bothered about it for the sake of them.
Lol. Cause only dudes are on here.
I am a girlfriend who plays games, played games when I was just a `girl`, too.
Besides, it's not a massive controversy, it was just some shitty wording that furthers a dumbass stereotype. They've moved away from the comments now so it's chill.
 

Signa

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Phasmal said:
Xid Satled said:
99.9% of girls suck at video games, come at me.
Ok. You're wrong. Done.

Signa said:
Not sure why there is controversy here. Girlfriends usually don't like playing games. If you have one that does, congrats, but it's not worth getting bothered about it for the sake of them.
Lol. Cause only dudes are on here.
I am a girlfriend who plays games, played games when I was just a `girl`, too.
Besides, it's not a massive controversy, it was just some shitty wording that furthers a dumbass stereotype. They've moved away from the comments now so it's chill.
We've been through this before, you don't count in my general comments. Sorry if that makes you feel excluded, but I'm not going to restructure my opinion of things because someone 8,000 miles from me is an exception. Now go tear up some shit with the Gunzerker and laugh at all the pansies that need an aimbot just to kill something.

FUCK YEAH!
 

Phasmal

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Xid Satled said:
Phasmal said:
Xid Satled said:
99.9% of girls suck at video games, come at me.
Ok. You're wrong. Done.
lol, You really went out of your way didn't you? The fact is 97% of females are terrible at games. That's just how it is, no flame baits here.

The fact is 99.9% of statistics are pulled from an arse.