Borderlands 2: The Problem with Combat Rifles

[Bertylicious]

I've found them to be horribly underpowered when compared to SMGs. SMGs on average:
- Do more damage
- Have a scope
- Give 32 bullets on ammo pickups rather than 18
- Have greater RoF in addition to the damage
- Are more accurate
- Faster reload
- More BIG (Bullets In the Gun)
- More likely to have elemental effects

The only CRs which are not merely inferior SMGs are the Torque explosive ones which are, like all Torque guns, amazing and make all of your enemies explode into a shower of money, blowjobs, and kittens.

I would suggest that CRs need buffs to damage and accuracy with more variety in recoil; some should be good and others horrific.

What do you think?

 

[Assassin Xaero]

I didn't find an actual decent SMG until maybe level 26 (not to mention most suck at range)? It is probably all personal preference. I don't really touch assault rifles anymore. I'm finding it a lot harder in BL2 to find guns because how different the manufacturers are. Tediore guns bother me since I have a habit of reloading right when I'm done shooting and end up almost blowing myself up a lot. I've never been a fan of burst fire (so no Dahl guns), especially when it is on a sniper rifle at the clip is gone after two shots. Hyperion guns, being the way they are with accuracy, seems like a waste.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Going off my experience with the first game, at least, combat rifles really work best with the Soldier class, given how he gets specific damage buffs with certain perks chosen. Using the Torgue Rowdy Bastard with the full speed and damage upgrades for combat rifles is a deadly combination.

 

[SomeLameStuff]

I actually HATE using the Torque guns, with their low rate of fire and projectile speeds. I do have a decent CR though, 8300~ x3 per shot with a good rate of fire and quick reload speed so the small magazine size doesn't matter much. I do get that I'm one of the lucky ones though, and barring the Shredifier Legendary CR, most are crap.

And fun fact, the Shredifier has THE LOWEST drop chance out of everything in Borderlands. Let me put it this way, it is SO RARE, some people now doubt that it even exists. Yikes...

 

[Playful Pony]

- Do more damage ... Hmm, pretty much all SMGs I find do less than Assault Rifles
- Have a scope ... This varies wildly, I have not noticed more scopes on SMGs than rifles
- Give 32 bullets on ammo pickups rather than 18 ... Cant argue with that!
- Have greater RoF in addition to the damage ... ROF varies, Vladof for example has a lot!
- Are more accurate ... I don't agree with this. Most I find seem to be more accurate than SMGs
- Faster reload ... Generally, I think you are correct
- More BIG (Bullets In the Gun) ... Also true, and I think many rifles need more magazine capacity!
- More likely to have elemental effects ... I would agree with this, and add a question; Does Maliwan make assault rifles? I'm dying to have a Maliwan assault rifle...

I don't think they need a buff, they seem perfectly decent to me! I guess it depends on how lucky you are. When I played Zero I couldn't find a single decent sniper rifle... Then I gave up on him, and as soon as I was well under way with my second character I was practically swimming in high-damage elemental effect ones!

I would agree that the Torque guns seem to be more efficient than the others. I did just find a Jakobs rifle which packs some pretty serious firepower AND is explosive like a Torque, so I do think there are good ones of other makes out there. The best guns I find are mostly shotguns or sniper rifles currently. I find loads of them, and they way outclass any other guns after taking stats and versatility into account.

 

[Bertylicious]

Going off my experience with the first game, at least, combat rifles really work best with the Soldier class, given how he gets specific damage buffs with certain perks chosen. Using the Torgue Rowdy Bastard with the full speed and damage upgrades for combat rifles is a deadly combination.

I'm not 100% certain but I think the Torque guns get the bonus of both the gun damage buffs and the grenade/rocket launcher buffs of the Commando. I have one of their Lumpy Rifles that does 1500 damage but it hits for 4500. More on a critical.

Saying that though that'd be, what, 24% for the Impact skill plus 45% or so from the grenade skills and 25% from the class mod. That wouldn't account for the massive difference when you actually pull the trigger.

Anyway, aside from 'nades and rockets the Commando doesn't get much of a buff over and above what other classes get.

 

[Shadowstar38]

I've found in my playthrough that Combat rifles and SMGs tend to do pretty poor damage. And I didnt even get a good shotgun until level 15.

 

[Bertylicious]

- Do more damage ... Hmm, pretty much all SMGs I find do less than Assault Rifles
- Have a scope ... This varies wildly, I have not noticed more scopes on SMGs than rifles
- Give 32 bullets on ammo pickups rather than 18 ... Cant argue with that!
- Have greater RoF in addition to the damage ... ROF varies, Vladof for example has a lot!
- Are more accurate ... I don't agree with this. Most I find seem to be more accurate than SMGs
- Faster reload ... Generally, I think you are correct
- More BIG (Bullets In the Gun) ... Also true, and I think many rifles need more magazine capacity!
- More likely to have elemental effects ... I would agree with this, and add a question; Does Maliwan make assault rifles? I'm dying to have a Maliwan assault rifle...

I don't think they need a buff, they seem perfectly decent to me! I guess it depends on how lucky you are. When I played Zero I couldn't find a single decent sniper rifle... Then I gave up on him, and as soon as I was well under way with my second character I was practically swimming in high-damage elemental effect ones!

I would agree that the Torque guns seem to be more efficient than the others. I did just find a Jakobs rifle which packs some pretty serious firepower AND is explosive like a Torque, so I do think there are good ones of other makes out there. The best guns I find are mostly shotguns or sniper rifles currently. I find loads of them, and they way outclass any other guns after taking stats and versatility into account.

I should perhaps have mentioned that I was only talking about green or better quality weapons. Scoped whites (disbarring sniper rifles) are as rare as rocking horse shit, at least in my experience.

Assuming you are talking about green+ items though, that is very interesting. Perhaps, as you imply, different playthroughs can yield wildly different outcomes. That leads me to another question; I have played extensively in LAN multiplayer and found that in groups the items seem to be vastly inferior. Fewer purples and blues, all of said items generally awful. Has anyone else had this experience?

Edit: Neither Maliwan nor Hyperion make CRs. A pity as a Hyperion chain gun would be the best thing ever.

 

[Bertylicious]

I didn't find an actual decent SMG until maybe level 26 (not to mention most suck at range)? It is probably all personal preference. I don't really touch assault rifles anymore. I'm finding it a lot harder in BL2 to find guns because how different the manufacturers are. Tediore guns bother me since I have a habit of reloading right when I'm done shooting and end up almost blowing myself up a lot. I've never been a fan of burst fire (so no Dahl guns), especially when it is on a sniper rifle at the clip is gone after two shots. Hyperion guns, being the way they are with accuracy, seems like a waste.

That is a good point. My flatmate ended up using sniper rifles, pistols and rocket launchers exclusively.

Sniper Rifles seem, pound for pound, far and away (ha ha) the best guns in the game.

 

[Bertylicious]

I actually HATE using the Torque guns, with their low rate of fire and projectile speeds. I do have a decent CR though, 8300~ x3 per shot with a good rate of fire and quick reload speed so the small magazine size doesn't matter much. I do get that I'm one of the lucky ones though, and barring the Shredifier Legendary CR, most are crap.

And fun fact, the Shredifier has THE LOWEST drop chance out of everything in Borderlands. Let me put it this way, it is SO RARE, some people now doubt that it even exists. Yikes...

That CR sounds amazing. How accurate is it?

EDIT: Also, isn't the shredifier a SMG?

 

[SomeLameStuff]

That CR sounds amazing. How accurate is it?

EDIT: Also, isn't the shredifier a SMG?

It has a sweet 93.6 accuracy. AND It's only a green! I don't use it much now though, since I found the Baby Maker Legendary SMG which does over 1.13 million damage when I reload it after one shot(Tediore!). Very useful when farming Terramorphous and Vemivorious, if I can even get him to spawn. Grr.

And the Shedifier IS a Rifle. It's dropped by Bonehead 2.0.

 

[Bertylicious]

That CR sounds amazing. How accurate is it?

EDIT: Also, isn't the shredifier a SMG?

It has a sweet 93.6 accuracy. AND It's only a green! I don't use it much now though, since I found the Baby Maker Legendary SMG which does over 1.13 million damage when I reload it after one shot(Tediore!). Very useful when farming Terramorphous and Vemivorious, if I can even get him to spawn. Grr.

And the Shedifier IS a Rifle. It's dropped by Bonehead 2.0.

Clearly Steam needs to support Borderlands 2 trading so that you can give me all your awesome stuff.

 

[SomeLameStuff]

Clearly Steam needs to support Borderlands 2 trading so that you can give me all your awesome stuff.

Well there's always the in-game trading mechanic. I have quite a few Legendary Oranges which are duplicates and can afford to give away. When I'm at home at least anyway.

 

[Playful Pony]

I should perhaps have mentioned that I was only talking about green or better quality weapons. Scoped whites (disbarring sniper rifles) are as rare as rocking horse shit, at least in my experience.

Assuming you are talking about green+ items though, that is very interesting. Perhaps, as you imply, different playthroughs can yield wildly different outcomes. That leads me to another question; I have played extensively in LAN multiplayer and found that in groups the items seem to be vastly inferior. Fewer purples and blues, all of said items generally awful. Has anyone else had this experience?

Edit: Neither Maliwan nor Hyperion make CRs. A pity as a Hyperion chain gun would be the best thing ever.

Yeah I'm generally talking about green +, the other ones are usually not worth mentioning after level 5! I haven't played all the way trough the game yet actually, I'm playing 1 character with 3 other friends, 1 character with 1 friend and a final character by myself (yeah I'm enjoying the game that much!), and we always seem to have very varied weapons. In the 4-player one we find pretty much ONLY sniper rifles of any mentionable quality... Everything else is vastly underpowered, and because out Zero player is a bit of a dick to be honest, he hoards every single sniper himself unless one of us others take one without him noticing. He'll later see the weapons chest and as what was in it, and we just say some crapy pistols or something... Not very amusing, I have much more fun on my own X3.

I also seem to get better weapons when playing alone or with my 1 friend. This strikes me as very strange, wasn't more players supposed to mean more weapons? I guess maybe my hoarding Zero-playing friend is to thank for that though, so I can't actually be sure =p.

 

[Bertylicious]

Clearly Steam needs to support Borderlands 2 trading so that you can give me all your awesome stuff.

Well there's always the in-game trading mechanic. I have quite a few Legendary Oranges which are duplicates and can afford to give away. When I'm at home at least anyway.

People in the third world don't want to live on handouts, SLS. They just want the loot drops so that they can work themselves out of poverty; both for themselves and for generations of new toons to come.

For just £3.50 a month we could create a collosal WAAAAHHmbulance so that we could drive up to the Gearbox offices and spray their employees with our tears till they make CRs awesome.

 

[SomeLameStuff]

I also seem to get better weapons when playing alone or with my 1 friend. This strikes me as very strange, wasn't more players supposed to mean more weapons? I guess maybe my hoarding Zero-playing friend is to thank for that though, so I can't actually be sure =p.

Yeah, more players increase the difficulty and swaps the loot generating algorithm to a better one. If you're still unlucky though, you'll end up with some really crappy guns.

 

[Bertylicious]

I should perhaps have mentioned that I was only talking about green or better quality weapons. Scoped whites (disbarring sniper rifles) are as rare as rocking horse shit, at least in my experience.

Assuming you are talking about green+ items though, that is very interesting. Perhaps, as you imply, different playthroughs can yield wildly different outcomes. That leads me to another question; I have played extensively in LAN multiplayer and found that in groups the items seem to be vastly inferior. Fewer purples and blues, all of said items generally awful. Has anyone else had this experience?

Edit: Neither Maliwan nor Hyperion make CRs. A pity as a Hyperion chain gun would be the best thing ever.

Yeah I'm generally talking about green +, the other ones are usually not worth mentioning after level 5! I haven't played all the way trough the game yet actually, I'm playing 1 character with 3 other friends, 1 character with 1 friend and a final character by myself (yeah I'm enjoying the game that much!), and we always seem to have very varied weapons. In the 4-player one we find pretty much ONLY sniper rifles of any mentionable quality... Everything else is vastly underpowered, and because out Zero player is a bit of a dick to be honest, he hoards every single sniper himself unless one of us others take one without him noticing. He'll later see the weapons chest and as what was in it, and we just say some crapy pistols or something... Not very amusing, I have much more fun on my own X3.

I also seem to get better weapons when playing alone or with my 1 friend. This strikes me as very strange, wasn't more players supposed to mean more weapons? I guess maybe my hoarding Zero-playing friend is to thank for that though, so I can't actually be sure =p.

Hmmm...

In our 4 player game we all used our Golden Keys. Perhaps the sudden glut of purple gear caused something screwy to happen to the loot drop equation. Did you guys also use your keys in yours?

 

[SlaveNumber23]

Combat Rifles and SMGs are both meh, all you need is a shotgun, a sniper and a rocket launcher. The combat rifles and smgs just feel weak in comparison.

 

[SomeLameStuff]

People in the third world don't want to live on handouts, SLS. They just want the loot drops so that they can work themselves out of poverty; both for themselves and for generations of new toons to come.

For just £3.50 a month we could create a collosal WAAAAHHmbulance so that we could drive up to the Gearbox offices and spray their employees with our tears till they make CRs awesome.

I smell a balance patch coming anyway. The Bee shield is so hilariously overpowered when it comes to shotguns it's scary. The 50k damage boost applies not to the shotgun blast, but to each individual pellet. Take a 5000~ x16 shotgun and what do you get?

Yeah. Ouch.

Just hope that Rifles are balanced a bit as well. And I sure hope they fix that drop rate...

 

[Bertylicious]

Combat Rifles and SMGs are both meh, all you need is a shotgun, a sniper and a rocket launcher. The combat rifles and smgs just feel weak in comparison.

Ah, those weapons are all decisive weapons.

I can relate because if you point a gun at something, pull the trigger and find that (when the smoke has cleared) it isn't dead then it is natural to conclude the experience as a failure. The SMGs and CRs, however, are solid and dependable weapons that you can build a bridge out of, or a community centre with multi-faith facility that serves carnage equally amongst the local population.

You could argue that a sniper rifle serves this role perfectly adequately, but if you feel this way then that is like drinking shots of whisky before, during and after the meeting. In short: you have a problem and we all want you to get help because we love you.