Boy Scouts Accepting Gays Now

[Terminate421]

As you can clearly see from the text you yourself quoted, I didn't say that at all. Seriously, can anyone on this board respond to my posts without making a strawman argument out of them?

Oh for fuck's sake--don't use language like

...would it be such a bad thing if Boy Scouts went out of business? Seriously, what relevance do they have to modern life?

if you're not prepared for someone that's actually had significant first-hand experience to jump on your ass about the extremely unsubtle implications it makes. That statement is pretty damn close to "better off without,"

No, they're not "pretty damn close". They're completely different. I asked what relevance BSA have to modern life, at worst implying that they do no harm but provide no great benefit. "Better off without," would mean that I believe they do more harm than good and that we should get rid of them- an opinion I never expressed. An opinion you made up.

Face it, you saw someone saying something mildly negative (or rather not positive) about BSA and you jumped to wild conclusions in order to defend your tribe. The graceful thing to do at this point would be for you to apologize and drop it so we can both move on to more important things.

And that's where I step in.

This is coming from an Eagle Scout and using language like "in order to defend your tribe" is pretty fucking pompous. It doesn't make you smarter or deserve an apology.

...would it be such a bad thing if Boy Scouts went out of business? Seriously, what relevance do they have to modern life?

I am insulted.

You know what I did in the last year of my scouting career alone?

Participated in approximately 12 service projects around my community (All of which the scouts in my troop and me volunteered for)
Donated and recieved donations of over $1000 dollars worth of materials/clothing to charities
Written and carried out an Eagle Scout Project for Enable of Georgia (Google them)

Survival skills may be important but without the scouts, we lose far more than what we gain. In fact, we don't even gain anything from without them. Here you are suggesting what would happen if we didn't have them, you want to know?

Loss of man power
Loss of community unification involving youths
Loss of preparedness or even basic survival skills for youths
Loss of a social application for boys from 6-17 years old

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

As someone who was in the UK Scouting movement until I was 16 (even if all we ever did in Explorers was mess around and get drunk), what the fuck, America. Took you long enough. I don't think the UK Scouts discriminate against anyone (barring age, obviously, and technically, all Scouts are required to 'have faith', although it's not enforced and isn't specific to Christianity), seems to go pretty heavily against the message.

I didn't insult you. I didn't insult scouts. I didn't insult anyone. All I did was speculate that scouts are not essential to modern society and ask what relevance they have to modern life.

Of course they're not essential, that would be silly. But questioning that what Scouting is about is less relevant in modern life seems to be missing the point of the entire movement.

 

[direkiller]

To my knowledge they still don't allow Atheists into the Scouts, so as far as I'm concerned they're still a bunch of backwards bigots.

Maybe this means the floodgates are open, though?

I'm not sure what its like over there, however, I know they let Atheists into the Australian Scouts (Not sure if its the same kind of thing as it is in the states)

Either way, OT, Good to hear at least things are moving in the right direction, even a small step for the gay community is a good one.

To my knowledge they still don't allow Atheists into the Scouts, so as far as I'm concerned they're still a bunch of backwards bigots.

Maybe this means the floodgates are open, though?

Huh.... I was both a scout and an Atheist for a good two years, never was a problem. Although I do live in England where this kind of thing isn't such big deal so... /shrug

OT: Why was this not already a thing? This kind of news just makes me a little bit sad that it has taken so long.... But yay for it being fixed now and all that marlarky!

BSA is only losely related to scouting around the world.
It is best to think of each country as seprate groups.


The way BSA is structured it by inlarge depends on the local group when it comes to accepting any child for whatever reason. The national level leadership except for child safty can only set guidelines it still depends on local chapters to interpit and enforce rules.

Which as much as I think this is a good first step. This will still not stop homosexual kids from being kicked out of scouting due to the way the policy is worded and most chapters being run by churches.

 

[Olas]

To my knowledge they still don't allow Atheists into the Scouts, so as far as I'm concerned they're still a bunch of backwards bigots.

Maybe this means the floodgates are open, though?

As someone who was in the organization for 8 years and is now an Eagle Scout I can assure you that it isn't a religiously oriented program, hence nobody really gives an ass's rat about your religious beliefs.

 

[Olas]

Aren't boy scouts kids and not even active sexually? seriously am I the only one who see's that?

Boy Scouts is for people who are between the ages of 11 and 18, not exactly the latency period. And as a former scout myself I can attest that quite a few people I knew in my troop were sexually active.

 

[lacktheknack]

...would it be such a bad thing if Boy Scouts went out of business? Seriously, what relevance do they have to modern life?

All of the general skills supposedly taught by boy scouts (leadership, self-confidence, etc) can be learned in other ways...

[snip]...so who are you to say that we would be better off without the BSA?

As you can clearly see from the text you yourself quoted, I didn't say that at all. Seriously, can anyone on this board respond to my posts without making a strawman argument out of them?

Why is this site's forum so obsessed with that term?

Because we get annoyed by people who waste our time arguing against something that we never claimed?

Nah it was horrible communication on your part. It wasn't even a stretch to infer that from what you said.

It absolutely was a stretch. People need to learn the difference between "not support" and "oppose". The two are not at all the same thing.

I know what I said. It appears that you do not. The correct response in that situation is to ask what I mean, not wildly speculate and jump to conclusions based on your emotional response to your fear that your tribe might be being criticised.

Now kindly stop wasting my time.

Do you just ENJOY being antagonistic?

You've tossed out a perfectly good post because he responded to something you didn't directly say but DID infer (you inferred it by listing all the ways that it's unnecessary, intent be damned), then you've earned the conversational equivalent of the "Golden Flounce Award", and lightly lash out at people who call you out on it.

And no, we will NOT "stop wasting your time". You've typed up a post on a discussion board, saying things that warrant reply, with a big fat "quote" button attached. If you want us to stop talking to you, DON'T POST.

 

[Elvaril]

You know what I think it would be great that they do? How about just "Scouts" and kids who want to be all outdoorsy and team style social get more of the Boy Scouts elements and kids who want to be really domestic and community/networking social get more of the Girl Scouts elements and gender need not be a consideration?

I really wanted to join the Boy Scouts because my friend Mike was one and not only did I idolize him but he told me about all the cool stuff they did camping and exploring and it sounded so fun. Of course, the Girl Scout troop I was geographically closest to had no such activities and were instead organizing a bake-off and 'exploring' the Mall of America for their big trip. I was so disappointed I didn't stay. I really think I would be more of an outdoors person than I am now if I had had the opportunity to join the side of Scouting that fit my interests at the time. I wanted to be more outdoorsy and in nature and comfortable there. I didn't want to learn to be a more savvy shopper or cook tasty treats - though I developed a love of baking later in life, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with offering such things! They just don't need to be so gender tagged specific in an increasingly less gender specific world.

Not sure how wide spread they were when you were a kid as I did not even hear about them until two years ago when I got my Eagle, but the Venture Scouts sounds exactly like what you described. It is for girls and boys ages 14-21, owned by the Boy Scouts of America, and focuses on whatever the Venture Crew decides that it wants to focus on. The group that wanted me to join them was an outdoors group that went on all sorts of expeditions and they had several female members.

 

[direkiller]

To my knowledge they still don't allow Atheists into the Scouts, so as far as I'm concerned they're still a bunch of backwards bigots.

Maybe this means the floodgates are open, though?

As someone who was in the organization for 8 years and is now an Eagle Scout I can assure you that it isn't a religiously oriented program, hence nobody really gives an ass's rat about your religious beliefs.

as a former scout myself
you are mistaken

yes it dose matter in some troops and is dependant on the scout master and outher leaders(I was in 4 diffident troops growing up it was a big deal in two of them).

For instance on my life rank I got asked what I was doing to serve god and keep myself morally strait. So to my scoutmaster activity in a church was a requirement for rank advancement.
If I was an atheist at the time it would have very much been a problem.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

You know what I think it would be great that they do? How about just "Scouts" and kids who want to be all outdoorsy and team style social get more of the Boy Scouts elements and kids who want to be really domestic and community/networking social get more of the Girl Scouts elements and gender need not be a consideration?

I really wanted to join the Boy Scouts because my friend Mike was one and not only did I idolize him but he told me about all the cool stuff they did camping and exploring and it sounded so fun. Of course, the Girl Scout troop I was geographically closest to had no such activities and were instead organizing a bake-off and 'exploring' the Mall of America for their big trip. I was so disappointed I didn't stay. I really think I would be more of an outdoors person than I am now if I had had the opportunity to join the side of Scouting that fit my interests at the time. I wanted to be more outdoorsy and in nature and comfortable there. I didn't want to learn to be a more savvy shopper or cook tasty treats - though I developed a love of baking later in life, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with offering such things! They just don't need to be so gender tagged specific in an increasingly less gender specific world.

Not sure how wide spread they were when you were a kid as I did not even hear about them until two years ago when I got my Eagle, but the Venture Scouts sounds exactly like what you described. It is for girls and boys ages 14-21, owned by the Boy Scouts of America, and focuses on whatever the Venture Crew decides that it wants to focus on. The group that wanted me to join them was an outdoors group that went on all sorts of expeditions and they had several female members.

That sounds excellent, I am glad to hear it. My experience is about 20 years back now, so the situation has had plenty of time to improve I was sure. One thing though, targeting teenagers instead of pre-adolescents has got to result in a leaner group. If a young person doesn't get into a habit of liking the outdoors or joining clubs or already enjoy structured participation activities outside of school then he or she might be reluctant to form such habits in the teen years, which usually lean towards rebellious habit formations of some sort.

I'd like to hope something for the younger demographic would be available as a lead up to something like this. Would Boy/Girl Scouts be the lead up? I'm not closed minded, I'm sure there are studies on how gender segregation between certain ages is beneficial (and probably just as many arguing it is not). I'm just wondering if a marginal exception policy would be perhaps a middle ground between complete segregation and full integration. Probably not. It would likely cause a lot of problems and unforeseen consequences should have double consideration when it comes to people's children.

A parellel group to what you mentioned at a younger point might just be the only solution that would provide the both/and option: a group for boys, a group for girls, and a group for boys and girls together. I wonder if the barrier to that is in money somewhere. Not accusing anything - it's just that's usually what the barrier to things tends to be, statistically speaking.

 

[Zen Toombs]

Just another pathetic attempt by gays into trying to normalise their abnormal lifestyle.
And why is it that it is Gays and Lesbians, aren't lesbians gay in the first place!

This is a joke, right?

Right?

....Right?

 

[OneTwoThreeBlast]

Just another pathetic attempt by gays into trying to normalise their abnormal lifestyle.
And why is it that it is Gays and Lesbians, aren't lesbians gay in the first place!

This is a joke, right?

Right?

....Right?

I doubt it was a joke, considering Jack's previous posts about women. Just another pathetic attempt by him to normalize his abnormal hatred for an entire group of people simply because they are not exactly like him.

He supports misogyny and thinks gay people are pathetic. I think there's a rent boy scandal on the horizon...

Anyway, I always find it so hilariously amusing when people call being gay abnormal, considering just how often it is observed not just in our species, but in so so many other species in this world. Being gay is not only completely normal, but also far more common than people who claim otherwise care to admit.

 

[Daveman]

Still no fucking atheists allowed. But yeah, fuck them, go Woodcraft motherfuckers, that's what I did as a kid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodcraft_Folk

That said it changed for when my sister did it because there were different people running it and at her camps the parents just liked to go off and smoke a shitload of weed.

I would totally join a group if it was called the "Woodcraft Motherfuckers," even if their main mission was killing kittens.

And I LOVE kittens!

Alas, my excitement was immediately dampened by the next sentence, in which it was noted that the group is, in fact, called Woodland Folk.

Damn. Maybe I'll just start calling myself a Woodland ************ anyway.

Or maybe not. Seems like it could be easily misconstrued as an alternate name for "backwoods incest enthusiast."

Punctuation just likes to fuck your day up.

 

[OneTwoThreeBlast]

Still no fucking atheists allowed. But yeah, fuck them, go Woodcraft motherfuckers, that's what I did as a kid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodcraft_Folk

That said it changed for when my sister did it because there were different people running it and at her camps the parents just liked to go off and smoke a shitload of weed.

I would totally join a group if it was called the "Woodcraft Motherfuckers," even if their main mission was killing kittens.

And I LOVE kittens!

Alas, my excitement was immediately dampened by the next sentence, in which it was noted that the group is, in fact, called Woodland Folk.

Damn. Maybe I'll just start calling myself a Woodland ************ anyway.

Or maybe not. Seems like it could be easily misconstrued as an alternate name for "backwoods incest enthusiast."

Punctuation just likes to fuck your day up.

Not the first time. My father died in a tragic semicolon accident.

 

[101flyboy]

Just another pathetic attempt by gays into trying to normalise their abnormal lifestyle.
And why is it that it is Gays and Lesbians, aren't lesbians gay in the first place!

You must be so proud.

 

[101flyboy]

The fact that adults would go after children and more or less bully them goes to show just how far the depths of homophobia can go. This is not about disagreeing with homosexuality................it's about people who outright dislike and hate it. What a disaster, embarrassment, and disgrace.

 

[101flyboy]

If you're against the hateful ban, please call:

972-580-2330 and say you are FOR ending the ban on gays in the BSA. It only takes a minute. Please do it if you care because your vote can and will make a difference.

 

[Blunderman]

It's good, definitely.

But it's still utterly pathetic that homosexuals were disallowed in the first place.

 

[DementedSheep]

This is a good thing but it took them this goddamn long?

So next will they allow women to join? And maybe the girl scouts will accept male members. It's a private club, can't they decide who can and can't join?

You know what I think it would be great that they do? How about just "Scouts" and kids who want to be all outdoorsy and team style social get more of the Boy Scouts elements and kids who want to be really domestic and community/networking social get more of the Girl Scouts elements and gender need not be a consideration?

I really wanted to join the Boy Scouts because my friend Mike was one and not only did I idolize him but he told me about all the cool stuff they did camping and exploring and it sounded so fun. Of course, the Girl Scout troop I was geographically closest to had no such activities and were instead organizing a bake-off and 'exploring' the Mall of America for their big trip. I was so disappointed I didn't stay. I really think I would be more of an outdoors person than I am now if I had had the opportunity to join the side of Scouting that fit my interests at the time. I wanted to be more outdoorsy and in nature and comfortable there. I didn't want to learn to be a more savvy shopper or cook tasty treats - though I developed a love of baking later in life, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with offering such things! They just don't need to be so gender tagged specific in an increasingly less gender specific world.

I wasn't bitter about it and I'm not now, those were their rules, they got to make them, I accepted it, I was a kid there wasn't much else to do. Now that I'm an adult I can look back and see that I missed out for really arbitrary reasons that may be outdated enough to be a little ridiculous.

Are the NZ Scouts connected the the US Scouts? because I use to be in the Scouts and I'm female. There were a fair amount of girls in it and our leader was female. I don't know what their stance was on gay men though. I don't think it was ever brought up.