Brink : No Girls Allowed

mirasiel

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I smell bullshit on this one "Oh its too much effort/time to put females in the game and still have custimisation" .

Funny games like Eve-online,fallout,oblivion,mass effect and so on all managed to have varying levels of cust. options (eves is just silly) and have females.

You cant look me in the eye and tell me that I can totally customise my toon and then neglect to include the one option that represents about %51 of the planetary population...thats kind of the opposite of 'choice' .
 

Treblaine

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I'm fed up of multiplayer sausage-fests.

Team Fortress 2 is I think most conspicuous in the lack of female characters, to the extent that there have been many significant attempts to mod in females character models though nothing ever official.

It wasn't always so and isn't universal, Unreal Tournament always had a good selection of female character models and fighting games have never had this problem, they have to be the most diverse gaming lineups in the industry with such a mix of sexes, races, cultures and employment.

Me thinks that CoD and halo are largely to blame, they seem to think of themselves as much more serious than the fantastical Unreal games and stick strongly to the modern hegemony that warfighting is a male occupation.

While that may be accurate for today it isn't very interesting.

Though halo has eased up lately, CoD has not. Even though the first 2 CoD games had female soviet soldiers, they were just as expendable NPCs. No female soldiers seen in World at War.
 

Treblaine

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CardinalPiggles said:
imagine a female heavy :S that doesnt really fit.


Wow, a fat woman. How does that "not fit"?

I don't know if you intended it but it really does come across that you find it OK for a guy to be big, fat and strong but women would be well...

:S

I'd only get that problem if I tried to see her in a sexual way, but to spite cultural perceptions it does not help to look at all women in terms of sexual appeal. Imagine if every woman saw Heavy in that way... very few women would like him to spite his inherent appeal as a character.
 

8-Bit Grin

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Uh... some of these answers bother me.

You'll ignore a game immediately if it doesn't include gender choice?

It seems a little petty.
 

rokkolpo

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I don't really care.

As long as being male makes some kind of sense, that female would not.
 

moretimethansense

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The way I see it is that if they simply can't afford/don't have the time for it then I'm not going to go off on them, but I'm still going to be dissapointed.

If Brink is successful and they put Female avatars in through DLC or a sequal then all is forgiven(by me) but if they make a sequal and do it again then fuck those guys.

Is it a big deal? Kinda.
Do folks have the right to be pissed? Absolutely.

I don't think that they were being deliberately sexist, but the fact that they clearly considered male cutomization to be more important than having female avatars is a clear sign that we don't have true gendar equality yet.

Off-topic: WTF?
That one guy makes post after insulting post for about six pages, insulting many users directly, multiple times based on gendar and gets a three day suspension, yet I make a single less than sereous insult during an otherwise uninsulting freindly post and I get banned for a week?!

Fuck this site man, fuck this site.
 

Dango

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Duskflamer said:
TheDarkEricDraven said:
Does Halo have female charecters in ITS multiplayer? What about Section 8? I don't know why Brink is the upset. Of course, it is a little more jaring since there isn't power armor for everyone. Despite Spartans in Multiplayer looking male, it doesn't take much to imigine one as a girl.
Brink is the upset because, aside from forcing your character to be male, it has a very robust character customization aspect. The fact that it put so much focus into character customization, yet forced your character to be a guy, makes the issue (which is still present in other shooters mind you) more obvious.

Imagine if Bioware came out with a new RPG with their standard level of customization, but decided that your character had to be a girl, how do you think people would react? It's the same issue here.
No, it's not. Mass Effect is centered around creating your own Shepard, and making his or her choices throughout their journey. You develop your character's personality and characteristics along the way. In a game like Brink where the personality of your character is absent and customization is purely aesthetic, adding in the feature to play as a girl would be completely pointless.

Edit: And as previously mentioned, Splash Damage's view is that you could either have a robust customization option that's better to play with, or a shallow customization option that's slightly better to look at. I'd much rather go for the one that serves gameplay.
 

googleback

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thats actually kind of disappointing, I was looking forward to seeing what options you had with women.

no faith clones then haha
 

MrSnugglesworth

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TheDarkEricDraven said:
Did Halo have female charecters in IT'S multiplayer? What about Section 8? I don't know why Brink is the upset. Of course, it is a little more jaring since there isn't power armor for everyone. Despite Spartans in Multiplayer looking male, it doesn't take much to imigine one as a girl.
Yes.

You can change your voice to female in Halo.

Section 8 wasn't that big of a game, so it largely avoided public view.
 

Sidremus

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well in the most halo games u could actually choose ur gender (i think only halo2 didnt have that option). even though it didnt show much because, well, powerarmor, ur character had a female voice. section 8, didnt have any visual customization, but ur voice allways was male.

IMO girls should allways be an option customization. giving a player the option of suiting they're avatar to there taste or real apereance but then ditching of the most of the female community is plain bad.
 

Sgt. Dante

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Duskflamer said:
TheDarkEricDraven said:
Does Halo have female charecters in ITS multiplayer? What about Section 8? I don't know why Brink is the upset. Of course, it is a little more jaring since there isn't power armor for everyone. Despite Spartans in Multiplayer looking male, it doesn't take much to imigine one as a girl.
Brink is the upset because, aside from forcing your character to be male, it has a very robust character customization aspect. The fact that it put so much focus into character customization, yet forced your character to be a guy, makes the issue (which is still present in other shooters mind you) more obvious.

Imagine if Bioware came out with a new RPG with their standard level of customization, but decided that your character had to be a girl, how do you think people would react? It's the same issue here.
I tend to play as a girl in bioware games anyway, but i suppose the thread is about options. And on that point you have one.
 

ImmortalDrifter

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-sigh- I thought this flamewar died a year ago...

I'm glad actually, that way there won't be billions of screenshots of female characters asses.
 

TheDarkestDerp

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mojodamm said:
Honestly, I don't care if I have to play a transgendered Labrador Retriever with a tophat and Doc Martens, I care if it's a good game, and it would be awesome if people focused on that more than the incidentals.
Dood, I'd LOVE to play as a transgendered Labrador Retriever with a top hat and Doc Martins! But could I choose MTF/FTM or is my customization limited to what the developer allows...?
 

GLo Jones

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ImmortalDrifter said:
-sigh- I thought this flamewar died a year ago...
Same. If I hear this issue brought up by players mid-game I might explode.
 

rockyoumonkeys

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I guess I'm not that concerned here. I mean, it's an FPS, right? I'll never see my own character.

If it was a third-person shooter, I'd be annoyed.
 

mirasiel

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rockyoumonkeys said:
I guess I'm not that concerned here. I mean, it's an FPS, right? I'll never see my own character.

If it was a third-person shooter, I'd be annoyed.
If you never saw your char wtf would be the point of excluding so many people to allow you to customise your char?
 

rockyoumonkeys

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mirasiel said:
rockyoumonkeys said:
I guess I'm not that concerned here. I mean, it's an FPS, right? I'll never see my own character.

If it was a third-person shooter, I'd be annoyed.
If you never saw your char wtf would be the point of excluding so many people to allow you to customise your char?
How the fuck should I know? Ask the developers.
 

Silver Salmu

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Okay, time for me to take a stab at this issue...

While I can see where some of you are coming from, you really need to take your heads out of your buckets and take into consideration that when the devs said it's to make one, deep customizaiton system, they really meant it.

As others have stated, their workload would instantly be doubled for this. Some have brought up RPGs as counter-points, but I don't see any of them having a movement(and thus animation) system as complex as Brinks. Take into account that for all of this to work on males, they had to make according meshes that were weighted to their skeletons well enough so that they'd not animate weirdly during all those neat tricks you perform via SMART.

First is that you have to apply this to -every- piece of equipment that doesn't match vertex-by-vertex. Considering the sheer ludicrous amount of choice you get in Brink, I'd say doubling this workload would be crazy. Secondly, you can't forget everything else that ties in with this. What made SMART and the characters' motions' relation/insertion/creation process a long headache is that since you get to play against A.I in non-MP modes, they had to make sure the A.I is capable of using SMART: not necessarily a problem in terms of separate skeletons, but it's just very time consuming. Look at how long it took STALKER to be developed partly because of the A.Is complexity.

I'm sure you can see where everything starts to tie in together and how it becomes apparent that indeed, time constraints are a very, very severe issue. I've seen people bring up the comparison to "but game x used the same skeleton for both genders/it wasn't a problem"...to you, I present, first, this image of Femshep sitting(ignore the motivational text, best shot I could find in a hurry):


See the issue there? Even if not all females have the decency/care to not spread their legs while sitting idly, it still looks awkward in a general perspective. And while yeah, that's only for one sequence in ME2, it sticks out. People have made threads on BioWare forums asking for them to make sure the female animations in ME3 are of better quality. Now consider that due to biological differences, females and males don't look the same when they perform complex acrobatics...if Splash Damage stuck to one skeleton and called it a day...well. It'd just look goofy, and I'm DAMN sure people would whine incessantly about how the devs were lazy with the animations even IF say the female characters were as insanely customizable as males.

And again - it would double their workload, which I admit would not be as big of an issue if the SMART system didn't call for -so many complex, accurate animations and calculations clientside-. The mass of work going into Brinks already solid framework was, logically, willy shriveling in breadth.

I hope I got my point across on why time constraints would've made an equally badass customization system creation and polishing process a complete mess(not to mention the end result would've been sloppy).

FYI, I do make 3d models and dabble with animating them. While I'm no pro(not even mediocre), it's still pretty obvious how difficult it is to make just a handful of different designs look good and animate well on a scale as big as Brinks.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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PayneTrayne said:
This thread has been done before and I'll agree with what was said before.

I'd prefer to see one full assed customization as compared to two half assed ones.
this 100 times over.

it's not an rpg for one, so i could care less on that aspect, and two, it's the developers game, the game could be for all its worth the most awesome game on the planet, and some of you people are disregarding it because you can't be a female? really?

if this was the truth there are tons of games out there that i feel very sorry for you on just because you can't be a female.
 

Xyliss

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RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Aris Khandr said:
Any game that offers even the most basic of character customization options, but does not include the option to select your gender, is immediately ignored by me. That's why I have not and will not play the Gothic series.
I agree. Gender is a pretty big thing to ignore when it comes to character customization.
Exactly, I think it's one of the most vital aspects, not how pointy you can make your chin as is the case for some games. I think they should have put in the female option even if it took longer or cost a bit more.