British Student Loses Extradition Battle Over Copyright Violation

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DSQ

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Jun 30, 2009
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I don't think anyone is saying he isn't guilty, He is, but that he should be tryed in the UK. Luckly for him he would not be prosicuted in the UK but that is another matter...

Note to self, Never have a .com domain. Not that I would make a site like TV Shack.

emeraldrafael said:
Before all the "America is policing the world" comments come in, just remember britian could have told us to fuck off, but they chose not to. You can only police the world when the world lets you.
Did you read the article? From my understanding of it the reason he is being extradited it because UK law would not prosicuite (can't spell) him and the judge beleived that he sould still be punnished.

So it is not so much that we are letting the US police the world more in this case the judge wants punishment dispite the 'never left the UK' argument.
 

SteewpidZombie

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Not to be rude, but the United States tends to be very sleezy when it comes to lawsuits or getting people from foreign countries to be "Brought to justice" as some people would say. Yet if any foreign country TRIED to have an American punished by their legal system for something like this, Americans would be in a uproar of offence at such a claim. So while I do respect Americans on various reasons and topics, I must say that their Legal System is corrupt or money motivated (Though even our own Canadian systen is corrupt to an extent).
 

Jamous

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Ilikemilkshake said:
He's in the UK. He didn't break any UK laws. He should not be facing trial.
The US would never extradite one of their own if were the other way around, especially not for something so petty... I really wish we'd stop being such bitches when it comes to our "special relationship"
But we're meant to bend over backward whenever America wants something from us! :O How could you possibly be so heartless as to suggest otherwise.

Back in reality, seriously? SERIOUSLY? Is this honestly going somewhere? Wow. How on earth is America allowed to be the trial when he's done nothing in America, but set up something that's illegal? That's like saying I should be sent to, let's use an extreme example, a strict, fundamentalist Muslim country for writing a book of apostasy that was published there. Fuck's sake.
 

Asehujiko

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Feb 25, 2008
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Rednog said:
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the sheer ignorance of the "You can't be charged with a crime unless you committed it in that particular country."
Seriously has no one heard of international copyright agreements and copyright infringement laws? You know the ones where a bunch of countries came together and agreed to uphold the other's copyrights?
But if you think otherwise I invite you to start mass producing your own iPads and selling them in your respective nation; because well they're and American company so screw them right?
Seriously this isn't a question of America playing freaking world police, its a case of the guy broke in one country's mind some copyright violations, the country he is located in is like well we don't really have an answer to trial this guy. But according to agreements the other country has the legal right to go after the guy; thus the country (UK) allowing the guy to be extradited.
If you have a problem with this then go to your government and petition them to abolish the trade agreements (hint no one is going to take you seriously).

Seriously, this guy made a profit over someone else's work; seriously 15k a month and the site was up for how long? And the people suing him are doing it according to the law and yet its a case of screw the victim?

I'm curious if this is just another case of bash America because you can, if this took place between two other countries everyone would probably be like, eh whatever. But omg it is the USA the devil of the world who is oppressing us every second of our lives!!!
Hosting a search engine that somebody else misuses to infringe copyright is not illegal in Britain. He did not commit a crime.

You can read english. There are places in the world where the punishment for that is being wrapped up in car tires, doused in petrol and set on fire. By your logic, a tribal warlord should be allowed to kidnap you to do exactly that. Unless you also believe that one should be able to pick and chose which laws one obeys.
 

Rednog

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Asehujiko said:
Rednog said:
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the sheer ignorance of the "You can't be charged with a crime unless you committed it in that particular country."
Seriously has no one heard of international copyright agreements and copyright infringement laws? You know the ones where a bunch of countries came together and agreed to uphold the other's copyrights?
But if you think otherwise I invite you to start mass producing your own iPads and selling them in your respective nation; because well they're and American company so screw them right?
Seriously this isn't a question of America playing freaking world police, its a case of the guy broke in one country's mind some copyright violations, the country he is located in is like well we don't really have an answer to trial this guy. But according to agreements the other country has the legal right to go after the guy; thus the country (UK) allowing the guy to be extradited.
If you have a problem with this then go to your government and petition them to abolish the trade agreements (hint no one is going to take you seriously).

Seriously, this guy made a profit over someone else's work; seriously 15k a month and the site was up for how long? And the people suing him are doing it according to the law and yet its a case of screw the victim?

I'm curious if this is just another case of bash America because you can, if this took place between two other countries everyone would probably be like, eh whatever. But omg it is the USA the devil of the world who is oppressing us every second of our lives!!!
Hosting a search engine that somebody else misuses to infringe copyright is not illegal in Britain. He did not commit a crime.

You can read english. There are places in the world where the punishment for that is being wrapped up in car tires, doused in petrol and set on fire. By your logic, a tribal warlord should be allowed to kidnap you to do exactly that. Unless you also believe that one should be able to pick and chose which laws one obeys.
Really?
I'm sorry but once again I have to question the lack of understanding of trade agreements.
I explained it quite well as to why he can still be tried even though he is not breaking the law in the UK. If you honestly can't get why this is there really isn't any other explanation for me to give. Seriously please look up international trade agreements.

I don't know where to even begin with you example. So you're telling me there are places in the world where there are laws saying that it is illegal to be able to read english. I would like a source on these laws.

Since I know it doesn't exist I will do your job for you and break down the argument you are trying to present. So you're saying that why should we listen to the laws of other countries, people should only be subject to the laws of their own country. Why should this guy be the subject of American law and not the laws of other countries, say Iran?

And once again this boils down to the fact that this is a case of the guy is breaking an international law and not local law. Both the UK and the US agreed to uphold the copy right/trade agreement thus while the UK local law says that this is a grey area the US is still able to use the agreed upon international law to take the guy to trial.
Because of this, you wouldn't ever be tried by a place like Iran for breaking their local laws because your country never agreed to uphold that law, and no country ever would agree to uphold an insane law like the one you are proposing.

This is basic knowledge of laws, and I'm still surprised people are able to get up in arms about a topic when they don't really have any idea how it works.
 

Kataskopo

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Dec 18, 2009
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Hehe, this is United States, but imagine if suddenly Thailand or Somalia or another country suddenly says you broke their laws and want you there.
And who knows what would they do to you.
Why do they have the ability to do that?

Rednog said:
...

And once again this boils down to the fact that this isn't a case of the guy is breaking an international law and not local law. Both the UK and the US agreed to uphold the copy right/trade agreement thus while the UK local law says that this is a grey area the US is still able to use the agreed upon international law to take the guy to trial.
Because of this, you wouldn't ever be tried by a place like Iran for breaking their local laws because your country never agreed to uphold that law, and no country ever would agree to uphold an insane law like the one you are proposing.

This is basic knowledge of laws, and I'm still surprised people are able to get up in arms about a topic when they don't really have any idea how it works.
All right, after reading this I get it.

The zeal the companies have to punish so severely this "pirates" is scary.
 

Trillovinum

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emeraldrafael said:
You were saying? its called economics of scale. you should probably learn them and what you posted didnt even take into consideration political pull. i didnt say the US had smaller political power, but that Britain has enough to at least rival the US and make a stand. They chose not to.

But by all means, keep telling the british citizens they're a small country in all regards.
I'm done arguing with you about something that is continuously drifting further and further away from the original topic. Let that be said.


All I mean with my previous post is that the United states is a larger and stronger country than the UK in almost every part of the way.

Britain is a shadow of what it once was and the US overshadows the country. The situation is so bad, the American government can use its political leverage to get almost anything from the British. (entering futile wars for example)

They simply don't have a choice.


You may feel they do but that's simply not the case. (officially every country can do what it wants but that's simply not what happens in the field)
 

LordFisheh

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Essentially, then, we crawl about like ants. And if one of the overarching, godlike powers of the world cares to make a casual example on a whim, that's it. There's nothing you can do. There's nobody who'll protect you. You just have pray that, with millions of other ants out there, it's not your door they come knocking on. This time.
 

Alma Mare

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Nov 14, 2010
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Awesome. Had no clue that the UK wouldn't extradict convicted embezzlers and white-collared criminals back to Portugal but is at the same time perfectly fine with extradicting torrent search engine owners to the US. Sweet.
 

Ziadaine_v1legacy

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Apr 11, 2009
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The US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, however, maintains that any internet domain ending in .com or .net is fair game for US authorities
WHAT?!?

Right, first SOPA and now this, I have officially lost faith in America. Defo' not taking a holiday there now.
 

Sojoez

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Speaking of the US not giving a fuck about other laws: Google The Hague Invasion Act (when wikipedia is online again) and say WTF out loud.
 

ThunderCavalier

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mad825 said:
TVShack didn't use US servers.
Bingo! the crime was committed on the country in which the website was hosted on the server. Not in the US.Any ending domains has no relevance as any organisation/register may have any domains especially .com and .net because there are no restrictions of use.

We all know why this is happening, the UK government doesn't have any balls to stand-up against the US in case it may damage this "special relationship".
Someone put this post somewhere in Washington. Maybe the politicians and lawyers will grow a brain cell if intelligence is shown to them.
 

Helmholtz Watson

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think of this as retaliation from us colonial rebels! lol, first we spill your tea, next we have your people arrested!
 

Megumi0505

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Of all the torrent sites out there you go after one based in the UK? There's tons of US based ones you can go make examples of, you don't need to go extraditing people from another country.
 

Helmholtz Watson

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Grouchy Imp said:
emeraldrafael said:
Before all the "America is policing the world" comments come in, just remember britian could have told us to fuck off, but they chose not to. You can only police the world when the world lets you.
Unless, y'know, the US applied economic pressure on a country in order to get the result it wanted. But that's crazy talk, I mean that'd never happen, <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.337240-Obama-blacklists-Spain-and-more-internetdestroying-problems>oh wait...
Yeah that totally equals policing the WORLD. smh
 

Helmholtz Watson

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Robert Ewing said:
I didn't realize the US had jurisdiction in a country they have nothing to do with.
Well the US is just following Great Britain's history of doing the same thing with other countries(see:India, Africa, and China) ;D
Hugga_Bear said:
emeraldrafael said:
Before all the "America is policing the world" comments come in, just remember britian could have told us to fuck off, but they chose not to. You can only police the world when the world lets you.
Hi, England here. Fuck off.

That good for ya?

Seriously though, it's not like we were given a vote on this, Cameron is a little ***** and our judicial system is even worse, we get to watch as someone from our country doing something which is ENTIRELY LEGAL gets extradited for what is a crime in another country? Well fuck USA, that seems fair doesn't it?

Fucking pricks whoever ordered the extradition and I'm seriously disgusted that our government is letting this happen. If the trial isn't a fucking laughing stock I'm gonna get seriously pissed.
Hi, USA here. Quit your whining.

Is that clear?

Instead of just typing about how your government is just lacking, why don't you actually do something about it? Oh, that's because its just easier to badmouth your government and my own.
 

Youdonotexist

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Jan 19, 2012
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On behalf as a US citizen: pbbbt!.

I've been a long time follower of this site but I've never been particularly compelled to comment about what my favorite Metal Gear Cutscene was or which of Yahtzee insults was the best of the week. There's a lot, A LOT, of let's chat about video game websites on the internet and I saw no great benefit to joining one more but the headslapping behavior displayed in this thread has impelled me to registration.

Before I even start on the specific things people have brought up let me start by saying that illegal recreational software sharing is the LEAST sympathetic of lesser crimes. There's plenty of nuanced, situational lesser crimes in the world where we can conduct deep debates about the spirit of the law vs. the letter or law vs. ethics vs. morals and so forth.

Is it okay to steal a potato to feed you starving family? Is it okay to pee on a street corner if you really, really have to go and nothing's open at 2A.M.? All very nuanced, intellectual questions.

Someone who illegally downloads Skyward Sword or Alvin and The Chipmunks 2: The Squeakwel does not even come remotely near that category. They are bored, listless, entitled children (or, if above the ago of majority, man-babies). There is no necessity in their actions. Their motive is boredom, an inflated sense of self entitlement and "'cause it was easy". If they were denied these downloads these passive, spoiled babies would have to find a slightly less entertaining way to be entertained. No way for anyone to feel sorry for that or anyone who supports their languid, self centered life style. If they're bored, learn to read books. Thrift shops sell them for 50 cents and libraries let people borrow 5 at a time for free.

Now as to why this person was extradited: First, THERE ARE TREATIES IN PLACE TO HANDLE THIS SORT OF THING. The U.S.A. and U.K. have signed several treaties allowing for extradition in cases similar if not exactly like this sort of thing. The second reason THIS GUY IS KIND OF A SCUM BAG. The U.S. doesn't NEED to apply any sort of pressure to get this guy out of the U.K. I mean if you're a judge and some snot nosed script kiddy walks into the courtroom with his Burberry cap and chavwad coat because he was making $15,000 a month for copypasting a few blocks of PERL script which allowed him to profit on the effort of everyone (uploaders, downloaders and especially content creators) you'd try expel him from your country only because the Magna Carta no longer allows you to sentence him to be drawn, quartered and fed to the Scottish (as was the custom for such people long ago.)

As to why the same thing does not happen if we transgress Islamic Decency Laws in Durkadurkastan. First, THERE IS NO SUCH TREATY WITH DURKADURKASTAN. It goes both ways, if we had such a treaty they'd be subject to some sort of our laws/statues/concepts of civil rights and let's face it, they break a lot of them. It would be ridiculous for any such treaty to exist. On the other hand it's good policy to have mutual and open enforcement of intellectual property between the U.K. and U.S.A. If such property laws stopped at the border some British guy could just distribute AMerican made video games willy nilly and Michael Bay could make a Dr. Who movie starring Shia LeBeouf as the Doctor, Mila Kunis as Amy Pond and Chris Tucker as the voice of the TARDIS. Do you really want to take that risk, U.K? Do you really want to force America to use the Michael Bay option? The second reason being DURKADURKASTAN ISN'T A REAL COUNTRY.

As to the reasoning of "He did not actually host the videos, only provided a complete service where they could be cataloged and accessed. You can find similar stuff with Google. Why don't they go after Google?" I'm not really buying that line. Sure, a person could hide a polaroid of a nude ten year old on a book or a half gram of cocaine inside a hollowed out barbie doll and mail it via UPS and if UPS didn't find it would be foolish to charge UPS with trafficking. Google links to a lot of stuff and the majority is processed automatically but excluded manually, similar to UPS which handles a huge volume of stuff every day. If, say, half of UPS's cargo was cocaine filled toys and books brimming with illegal photos there would be an investigation to say the very least. Also, THIS GUY IS KIND OF A SCUM BAG. There's a good chance they're just putting a little pressure on him. He'll fold like a seven-high, turn over his server logs and testify against anyone in the USA if they promise him he won't do a day in a real jail.

In response to stuff in the line of "Doesn't congress know we're in financial crisis? Why are they worrying about software piracy." We all know that the power of congress is in creating legislature, right? YOU CAN'T FIX THINGS BY LEGISLATING HARDER. Congress has already passed many laws regarding the financial situation. Now they will see how those laws pan out using economic data and they will adjust or create more policy to deal with shortcomings of the current policy.

They can't just pass a nonstop stream of laws to deal with the recession until it stops. that would be crazy. "Okay, fellow congressmen, bill 1568999 regarding the implementation of mortgages for real estate in commercial areas has PASSED, good work. Is the recession over yet? No? Really? It's been ten whole seconds! Um... Here's bill 8656294, a .75% reduction on capital gains tax, everyone quickly! PASSED! OH GOD! THE RECESSION ISN'T OVER YET! Does anyone have any more bills? Okay 590278, 408975, and 29756 Subsidized road building in Nebraska, Credit Card Usury Reform and Removing the Last S From The Word Congress Bill To Save on Printer Ink. Passed! Passed! Passed! How can the recession still be here, we legislated at it for a full three minutes now? Okay, I want everyone to grab a sheet of paper and draft a new bill, whatever you have at the end of a minute, we're passing it, no time to debate. We just have to just keep tossing a nonstop stream of legislature ay this recession until it dies!"

Also, PIRACY IS PART OF THE PROBLEM. Not a huge part but a really unregulated part in a growing financial sector. Seriously, movies and software are two of the few products that Americans can still make better than anyone and which we can export competitively. If an illegal download prevents someone from a legitimate buy that is a tiny dent in the GNP, tax base and possibly employment statistics. Now we've been tweaking the economic formula since the country was born and so it's reasonable to say that even if it's not great it's at least, competent and aside from some wildcards (flat tax/all sales tax/ nothing but gold advocates, ect.) we're just fiddling with the knobs.

Illegal downloading OTOH is a phenomenon only a few decades old and which has statistically been a petty loss until recently. The laws covering it are crude and ill suited. There's CLEAR room for improvement. Not saying SOPA is a good idea, it's not well defined, but congress is not going to turn a blind eye toward billions in theft (except by Haliburton. lol)
 
Mar 30, 2010
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Volf99 said:
Grouchy Imp said:
emeraldrafael said:
Before all the "America is policing the world" comments come in, just remember britian could have told us to fuck off, but they chose not to. You can only police the world when the world lets you.
Unless, y'know, the US applied economic pressure on a country in order to get the result it wanted. But that's crazy talk, I mean that'd never happen, <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.337240-Obama-blacklists-Spain-and-more-internetdestroying-problems>oh wait...
Yeah that totally equals policing the WORLD. smh
Really not what I was saying at all. [user]emeraldrafael[/user] made the 'policing the world' comment, not me. I was referring to his comment about 'when the world lets you', and showing examples of when the US has used economic might to force legislation on foreign powers that are meant to be it's allies. Whilst using tongue-in-cheek humour.