Bullying: Stop the complaining.

[mgirl]

You know what i don't get with bullying and suicides resulting from it: if you've stopped fearing death and started pondering suicide why not use that lack of fear of death to stand up for yourself?

Suicidal thoughts does not equate to no longer fearing death. In instances of bullying, I'd imagine it's about escaping the torment, having such low self worth that the costs of suicide is outweighed by the benefits, in the mind of the individual that is.

 

[klown]

I think the media hypes certain parts of the bullying, while forgetting to mention that pretty much everyone has bullied someone in their life. As someone who moved to an American high school from a different Country, I was able to look at things from an outside point of view. The ones who were bullied in turn bullied others, who then bullied other people.

I agree that it needs to stop though, while I was always a big person and always looked menacing so no one really made fun of me in anyway, not everyone has that. I think the punishment needs to be harsher. I'm pretty sure a bully would stop if the punishment was forceful and swift.

 

[Archereus]

I seem to be in the same boat as many but seem to have a different take on it.
In no way is bullying acceptable. it's disrespectful and rude and all sorts of other things but the problem is dealing with the problem doesn't solve the problem. Beat up the bully, that bully comes back with more people. Tell the authorities or teachers just gives them more reason to pick on you. In my opinion the biggest problem is that everyone doesn't work together on this sort of stuff.
Sure the teachers may give them trouble but at varying amounts and some amounts are pointless and even then, some time parents don't even care what their kid does as long as they stay in school. So as of things right now I doubt it could ever get solved, even if we got everyone to fight back. Another point to bring up is not everyone can fight back. I for one condoned violence early on as a child and I wouldn't see myself fighting back.
The only way to solve it is to have everyone and I mean everyone on the same page and working as a collective whole to end to problem, the only problem is, if one piece of that whole straggles a bit everything would fall apart. As a last statement I want to bring up that bullying should not be to blame for a child killing himself. Sure that may be the reason why they have done it but I wouldn't say the whole blame goes onto the bully, if anything it goes more onto the child.
The shear thought of committing suicide really doesn't make sense, where do you win? "I want to stop being bullied" so he off's himself some how. Sure your not being bullied any more but on the other side of the knife your dead. And seriously what's most important? your life or stopping a few dudes stealing your lunches by killing yourself? One thing I never seem to get my head around.

 

[Pandalisk]

Phoebe Prince couldn't "Deal with it" but she didn't tell anyone and took her own life.
Why should anyone being hard done have to just "deal with it" and the people who are described as "Just dealing with it" are often the ones who commit suicide.

Telling a teacher is standing up for yourself, just not in a way your familiar with, in fact actually telling someone about it is a bravery in its self because its a very sensitive issue. So much bullying goes on because most students are under the impression that nobody cares, that it doesn't matter, or that they should "just deal with it" especially males which is why Irish males between 18-24 Have the highest suicide rate in the country

If the media does anything with its huge pumping out of bullying material i hope its at least the students become more open with telling someone about their problems and people, especially teachers, become more sensitive to the issue rather than sweeping it under the rug.

This whole concept of machismo in the face of a bulling is outdated and when the idea is shared by the elders who the young rely on it the concept perpetuates

I think you have the impression OP is suggesting people "suck it up" or "harden the fuck up". I don't think that's what they're suggesting at all. I think they're suggesting you confront your bullies and actually deal with the problem rather than ignore it or tell a teacher.

I totally agree with OP. Ignoring bullies never works in highschool. Ignoring people who're being silly does, but people who dislike you and want to hurt you (any harm, not just physical) doesn't work.

Confrontation isn't always best, but it's a damn sight better than ignoring it.

Telling a teacher never worked for anyone when I was at highschool. I like to think that's changed a bit as older teachers retire and the younger generations move into teaching, but it's not assured.

I think that dealing with bullies (in a direct manner) is a much better option than telling or ignoring.

That said, I don't think bullying needs to be downplayed. If my child is a bully I will ruin their social life entirely to the point they with they'd been bullied. It's a despicable act and I don't think enough parents are willing to accept that their child is a bully, and thus, most under-react.

Nope, second time someones told me that, must of been the way i phrased the post. Oh well.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

I agree with the OP in a very small degree.
In my school, if you were attacked, it was against the rules to use violence to defend yourself. That is bullshit.
If your person is being assaulted, you should be able to use whatever you deem necessary in self-defense.

On the other hand, raising awareness of the bad effects of bullying is a fundamentally good idea.

Essentially, while I certainly don't think we should force kids to defend themselves, actively preventing them from defending themselves not only produces a weak culture but could lead to a kid refusing to fight back while being attacked and being seriously hurt if the school's rent-a-cops don't arrive fast enough.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

I seem to be in the same boat as many but seem to have a different take on it.
In no way is bullying acceptable. it's disrespectful and rude and all sorts of other things but the problem is dealing with the problem doesn't solve the problem. Beat up the bully, that bully comes back with more people. Tell the authorities or teachers just gives them more reason to pick on you. In my opinion the biggest problem is that everyone doesn't work together on this sort of stuff.
Sure the teachers may give them trouble but at varying amounts and some amounts are pointless and even then, some time parents don't even care what their kid does as long as they stay in school. So as of things right now I doubt it could ever get solved, even if we got everyone to fight back. Another point to bring up is not everyone can fight back. I for one condoned violence early on as a child and I wouldn't see myself fighting back.
The only way to solve it is to have everyone and I mean everyone on the same page and working as a collective whole to end to problem, the only problem is, if one piece of that whole straggles a bit everything would fall apart.

This... THIS THIS THIS!

I've barfed out words on several posts here and this is all I wanted to say.

Until you say this:

As a last statement I want to bring up that bullying should not be to blame for a child killing himself. Sure that may be the reason why they have done it but I wouldn't say the whole blame goes onto the bully, if anything it goes more onto the child.
The shear thought of committing suicide really doesn't make sense, where do you win? "I want to stop being bullied" so he off's himself some how. Sure your not being bullied any more but on the other side of the knife your dead. And seriously what's most important? your life or stopping a few dudes stealing your lunches by killing yourself? One thing I never seem to get my head around.

While I would agree that a bully shouldn't be accountable for murder (manslaughter on the other...).

where do you win? "I want to stop being bullied" so he off's himself some how.

It's not about winning, it's about release/escape. As I said to another earlier, the victim isn't looking for vindication or vengeance. It's not anger that drives him, but despair. He is not looking to show the bullies how wrong they are, or strike out against those who didn't help him, he's desperate to escape his suffering.

When family fail to help, or don't care. When peers look on and let it happen. When people who have responsibilities over you fail to care or simply don't... then you start to think YOUR the problem. This leads to things like self harming and can ultimately lead to suicide.

Bullying isn't just aggression. It's oppression. The bully, given time and freedom to act, can completely warp the victims perceptions. The victim will start seeing himself as the bullies describe. Worthless, unwanted, weak and pathetic. They will feel this way and won't reject the sentiments. When you get to that point the world starts to feel like it wants you gone.

So you oblige.

 

[Feneture]

Luckily i've never really had to deal with bullying myself because people knew that I would never stand for any of their bullshit! However my ex girlfriends brother who was like a little brother to me was getting constantly bullied at one point in school, every day! He was getting put into different classes in order to avoid the guys responsible but they still kept on bullying him, teachers just said to "ignore them".. And then it started with after school bullying etc..

So I decided to intervene and went to speak to these guys who were responsible for all the bullying.. I thought they got the point so I left it at that, but surely enough the bullying continued soon after by the same guys! So back I went but this time I didn't waste my time with words, just found the guys and dished out abit of justice! And well.. The bullying stopped after that and he never had trouble from those guys or any others for that matter!

Now i'm not trying to glorify violence and make it out that it's the solution to lifes problems but in some cases people just don't see reason any other way and a good smack can knock some sense into them!

Hope you enjoyed my little story, goodnight!

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

The OP is right. lol at the strawman arguments in response to OP, 'no one deserves to be bullied'. Nice try.

Gee what a persuasive argument! I am swayed and now think the OP is right!

...Actually, no, I don't. Wanna put some actual THOUGHT into it?

I mean, me and a few other bared our souls here, and make freakin' essays, detailing our personal experiences and how "manning up" was either impossible or would have gone against our very natures.

 

[sethisjimmy]

Accepting bullying as a part of life and telling people to toughen up is simply a lazy excuse for not doing anything about it. Actually working to eradicate bullying is far more effective than just telling people they're being too sensitive.

 

[Loonyyy]

Phoebe Prince couldn't "Deal with it" but she didn't tell anyone and took her own life.
Why should anyone being hard done have to just "deal with it" and the people who are described as "Just dealing with it" are often the ones who commit suicide.

Telling a teacher is standing up for yourself, just not in a way your familiar with, in fact actually telling someone about it is a bravery in its self because its a very sensitive issue. So much bullying goes on because most students are under the impression that nobody cares, that it doesn't matter, or that they should "just deal with it" especially males which is why Irish males between 18-24 Have the highest suicide rate in the country

If the media does anything with its huge pumping out of bullying material i hope its at least the students become more open with telling someone about their problems and people, especially teachers, become more sensitive to the issue rather than sweeping it under the rug.

This whole concept of machismo in the face of a bulling is outdated and when the idea is shared by the elders who the young rely on it the concept perpetuates

I should probably say that when I mean "dealing with it" I don't mean just let it happen or not take action.

It seems that in media, emphasis is put on the idea that it is the SCHOOL's responsibility to fix the problem. This seems odd seeing as how parents SHOULD be the ones teaching their children about the the ways to solve bullying.

Who would you rather do it? The student? I've tried that. You punch out those pricks, even if they assault you first, and you can be looking at suspension, especially if they lie about the incident. They do. Every time. I've tried violence-it doesn't work for small children unless you're bigger and faster than the guy picking on you, it doesn't work in high school, because you get in strife for it, and it doesn't stop the harrassment. Some people have characteristics that make them targets. It's a shame, but telling people they can't be the way they are, and have to deal with it is fucking bullshit. It's not on gay kids to stop being gay, or sensitive kids to stop being sensitive. It's on the others not to assault them or systematically abuse them. Fuck freedom. Your freedom to extend your fist ends at my nose.

And if you're outnumbered, good fucking luck. Now you have to be able to fight off any configuration of people who would attack you. If it's a social thing, you've got a much smaller group of people who don't interact with those who antagonise you. People don't feel bullied because they have a good social structure, or a physically capable. They feel a power disparity that favours the abuser. That's the problem.

The parent? I've had my parent suggest running over the wankers in the parking lot.

So, instead, the idea that schools would do something to prevent the institutionalisation of anti-social behaviour, doesn't seem so far fetched? We have a justice system because individuals who are wronged cannot be trusted to deal out proportionate force, and because judgement should be made from a position of authority, where the judgement may be carried out (Good luck "Dealing with it" if you're a tiny guy, or an obese guy.), and where the judgement can be more consistent.

Schools mandate the grouping of large groups of emotionally insecure individuals, without the protections of a workplace (There are laws against harrassment in the workplace which people fall back on). They should have to deal with the consequences of that, because if they can't, they're innadequate. Simple as that.

People say that bullying is common outside of schools. Bull-shit. I question the bullying experience of these people. Children can be cruel, and the wide variety of people crammed into a school makes for conflict. Outside of school, you rarely have to put up with it. The jerks are looked down on as Jersey Shore wannabes, and mocked, you generally work with a smaller group of people, meaning that people generally get along better (It's hard trying to create a social hierachy and exclude people when you've only got 5 people you work with regularly). That knife situation? Bullies aren't just sociopaths and criminals. And you're not existing at the whim of muggers.

Also, a nit pick at the silliest part of the sentiment: Ways to deal with it:

1) Resort to their tactics, violence, or abuse.

Rarely works, and can cause you trouble.

2) Ignore it.

Causes emotional trauma. Leaves all the problems to the victim, whilst the bully get his fun. Horrible solution.

3) Report it to an authority.

Since you don't feel you're an authority, you need a higher one. If you've got the power, use it, and you'll be fine (Teachers getting bullied by children get far less of my respect. They have the power to deal with these kids, and that's their job).

Reporting it to a parent doesn't help-they have nothing to teach you, and it's a crime if they try to solve the problem.
Reporting it to the school that mandates your attendance, with criminalisation of non-attendance, to solve the problem with their trained counsellors, authority to suspend and punish students, who's staff have a minimum of basic psychology training, can work. It doesn't always, and the system is in badly need of reform (Held back by attitudes informed by the Karate Kid which we see on display here), but it's the best solution.

So even if you say the student should deal with it, their best option is to TALK TO THE SCHOOL. Fuck the victim blame. Some of us could deal with it, with a knife to their gut. But we're not sociopaths, and we expect basic consideration. If you want a free for all, bereft of any rules at all, I'm game. But what you're advocating isn't a free for all, it's a system where the bullies aren't constrained by the rules, and the victims are, and then you place the responsibility on the victim. Gee whillickers, isn't that a clever suggestion.

 

[Lalo Lomeli]

I believe the media awareness it's because some parents, teachers and such see bullying as something harmless and when you're bullied they just say to you to "suck it up" and "deal with it".

If we live in a system where not only bullying isn't punished, it's in their own way rewarded (having no consequences for your actions, and being the pimp of highschool or whatever) it's just wrong.

Yes, I also see all that "Look at the poor bullied person over there, this has to stop" and think "Well, I dealt with way worse than that, what a bunch of wussies"; but that bullying has effects that last for long, and would like to be protected by the authority in charge of doing it.

For me, as a kid, the way to deal bullying was thinking that at the long run, the nerds would have all the money, while the bullies would in en a dead-end job, but that's just simply not true, the same qualities that make them bullies are mistaken by society as tolls of leaders (arrogance mistaken for confidence, lack of empathy and someone getting ahead, greed for being ambitious), so they aren't completely relegated to janitors, some or them can ride the wave of popularity to be your boss.

 

[Archereus]

I seem to be in the same boat as many but seem to have a different take on it.
In no way is bullying acceptable. it's disrespectful and rude and all sorts of other things but the problem is dealing with the problem doesn't solve the problem. Beat up the bully, that bully comes back with more people. Tell the authorities or teachers just gives them more reason to pick on you. In my opinion the biggest problem is that everyone doesn't work together on this sort of stuff.
Sure the teachers may give them trouble but at varying amounts and some amounts are pointless and even then, some time parents don't even care what their kid does as long as they stay in school. So as of things right now I doubt it could ever get solved, even if we got everyone to fight back. Another point to bring up is not everyone can fight back. I for one condoned violence early on as a child and I wouldn't see myself fighting back.
The only way to solve it is to have everyone and I mean everyone on the same page and working as a collective whole to end to problem, the only problem is, if one piece of that whole straggles a bit everything would fall apart.

This... THIS THIS THIS!

I've barfed out words on several posts here and this is all I wanted to say.

Until you say this:

As a last statement I want to bring up that bullying should not be to blame for a child killing himself. Sure that may be the reason why they have done it but I wouldn't say the whole blame goes onto the bully, if anything it goes more onto the child.
The shear thought of committing suicide really doesn't make sense, where do you win? "I want to stop being bullied" so he off's himself some how. Sure your not being bullied any more but on the other side of the knife your dead. And seriously what's most important? your life or stopping a few dudes stealing your lunches by killing yourself? One thing I never seem to get my head around.

While I would agree that a bully shouldn't be accountable for murder (manslaughter on the other...).

where do you win? "I want to stop being bullied" so he off's himself some how.

It's not about winning, it's about release/escape. As I said to another earlier, the victim isn't looking for vindication or vengeance. It's not anger that drives him, but despair. He is not looking to show the bullies how wrong they are, or strike out against those who didn't help him, he's desperate to escape his suffering.

When family fail to help, or don't care. When peers look on and let it happen. When people who have responsibilities over you fail to care or simply don't... then you start to think YOUR the problem. This leads to things like self harming and can ultimately lead to suicide.

Bullying isn't just aggression. It's oppression. The bully, given time and freedom to act, can completely warp the victims perceptions. The victim will start seeing himself as the bullies describe. Worthless, unwanted, weak and pathetic. They will feel this way and won't reject the sentiments. When you get to that point the world starts to feel like it wants you gone.

So you oblige.

I see where you are coming from and I know exactly of what it is your talking about. I was bullied a lot while in school and sure I had reached the point where my opinion was low on myself but neither would I use this excuse to say I have an educated opinion on the matter.
Sure when one sees himself as that low sure bad things may happen but again I fail to see how the logic falls on death as the conclusion. Even if it is about release does the person that kills himself feel it? Probably not. I agree with the head of this discussion that running away can't solve bullying and it's probably the worst thing you could do but suicide easily falls under that type of solution. Even when one feels pathetic and unwanted that should not be enough reason to die. One thing a bully cannot do is take away is a reason to live. If anyone contemplating suicide would stop and think on their lives and find the things that matter to them there shouldn't be anything that another could do to push to that.
My own life example on this was at had reached a point of thinking of suicide, I had reached step 3, before it got to far I had thought, who would take care of my little brother? At the time I babysat him 20 and more hours of week and I felt responsible for him. That one thought of no one watching my brother was enough for me to live through what ever those bullies could throw at me. Sure I didn't feel any better about myself back then but they couldn't take away from me my little brother hence they no longer could do any harm. And in my honest opinion on this is that every one has one thing to live for at least, be it big or small, simple or complicated, and that's one thing I don't think a bully can't take away. Though I do apologize, the discussion of suicide goes a bit off topic here I guess, but I have a strong opinion the matter and felt like sharing it, I don't think I get to enough, so I digress.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Here's the thing, I don't really believe bullying exists. Ask someone if they're a bully and they'll say no, sometimes even if you call them out on their bullyish behavior. Why? Because in everybodies own mind they're the hero of their own story.

Furthermore, what exactly equates bullying anyway? If someone doesn't want to be my friend because they find me annoying, am I being bullied than? When the higher ups at my job conspire against me- professionally- to keep me from being promoted, is that bullying?

Is someone pulling a gun on me and demanding me my money bullying? No, that's robbery.

Blech, and I'm sure there are those on the stop bullying band-wagon that are bullying others that just don't know it.... How about this, instead of "Stop Bullying" campaigns we do "Don't Be A Dick" Campaigns. I think that would work better.

snip.

yeah no

bullying is not acceptible..full stop

sure it would be nice to live in a world where people don't get picked on for being slightly different, but infortunatly due to the very nature of humans and the shit-headedness of teenagers it happens...and somtimes it happens so bad it create tradgey, and YES it is should be important to learn how to deal with bullies

but NO ONE deserves to be bullied,

Hitler. Child Molesters. Serial Killers. Cannibals. Rapist. Klansmen. The guys that killed Matthew Sheppard.

All individuals I would bully. Just saying.

Oh and Mathew Broderick.

 

[V8 Ninja]

While I disagree with @Vault101 , mostly because his grammar hits the right balance of 'Incorrect' to get on my nerves, he does have a great point in his first comment. People will be assholes regardless of age or status, most kids simply don't know how to deal with being bullied, and you are basing the experiences of everyone else on your own experiences (Rule #2 of 'How To Make A Bad Argument'). Also, bullying does lead to serious things [http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/subjects/b/bullies/index.html]. Just take a gander and you will find a good handful of suicide stories where the victims were subjected to large amounts of bullying.

 

[Waaghpowa]

*Most of what I was going to say was already said*

I admit that I haven't read all the posts, but has anyone considered that teaching kids to stand up for themselves simply isn't enough? Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, teaching kids that tormenting, torturing, physically attacking and demoralizing other people is simply wrong?

I believe everyone could benefit from learning to stand up for themselves, child or adult, but why would you want to teach your kid that being a cruel, sadistic and abusive prick is ok? By ignoring it and letting it happen, that's exactly what you're doing.

 

[chadachada123]

Phoebe Prince couldn't "Deal with it" but she didn't tell anyone and took her own life.
Why should anyone being hard done have to just "deal with it" and the people who are described as "Just dealing with it" are often the ones who commit suicide.

Telling a teacher is standing up for yourself, just not in a way your familiar with, in fact actually telling someone about it is a bravery in its self because its a very sensitive issue. So much bullying goes on because most students are under the impression that nobody cares, that it doesn't matter, or that they should "just deal with it" especially males which is why Irish males between 18-24 Have the highest suicide rate in the country

If the media does anything with its huge pumping out of bullying material i hope its at least the students become more open with telling someone about their problems and people, especially teachers, become more sensitive to the issue rather than sweeping it under the rug.

This whole concept of machismo in the face of a bulling is outdated and when the idea is shared by the elders who the young rely on it the concept perpetuates

Um, small correction. Phoebe DID tell at least one teacher, this teacher basically telling her to "deal with it."

Here are several links detailing it:

http://theweek.com/article/index/201684/could-phoebe-princes-school-have-saved-her

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20001441-504083.html

Though I can't find the original stories that had far more detailed coverage, I remember that fact quite clearly because of how much I payed attention to it at the time, including participating in attempts to gather information with other people who have been bullied before. At the very least, the second of the two articles has something pretty damn condemning:

School officials won't be charged, even though authorities say they knew about the bullying.

OT: I have a damn-thick skin. I am able to shrug off the words of others easily. That said, I don't think that my handling should be the barrier for entry, and I don't expect everyone to handle bullying nearly as well as I did. Nor do I at all claim that my experiences are even in the top 80% of bullying cases.

The advice we give to kids IS really shitty much of the time, but we shouldn't just ignore it by telling kids to "deal with it." That may work for some kids, but definitely not all of them.

 

[Prevanimus]

I'm late to this thread but I wanted to weigh in. I'm mainly posting in response to the first post. So here's my two and a half cents.

First off, I like how this topic is presented. The posters point of view is shown, but they end it with inviting people to give them alternative points of view in the hopes of better understanding the situation that has grown to be on such a large public topic. I mention this because when reading through the posts I saw a few that acted like the poster was attacking them personally and excusing bullying in one broad stroke.

The problem with these sorts of arguments is you have to establish what it is exactly being argued, the idea of the bullying sounds simplistic, but defining the parameters of the word is very important. Otherwise our perceptions of the term are not guaranteed to be the same and we might never come to a consensus because everyone is arguing for something different.

So, for the sake of argument, bullying is the unwarranted aggression of one individual against another wherein the aggressor has a superior position of power, be it stature, popularity, or other forms of influence.

Now, there is no simple answer to bullying, no two situations are going to be exactly the same. Most people have experienced varying degrees of bullying. As a result we all have our own answers to it. The thing to consider is bullying has levels, its not unheard of to find out that someone that bullies is frequently bullied as well. It becomes a chain of negativity. We also have varying degrees of capability, some people simply can't handle negative emotions and lash out, if this person also has some sort of strength to back this lashing out they are going to become a very effective bully. Whereas a smaller person might simply become bullied by people who are reacting to their negative outbursts.

This reasoning can go on for a long time, and all I'm trying to get at is there is no simple way to categorize bullying.

The big sin of news media is that they do over simplify it. It's treated like some giant pandemic that just needs to have a global solution created so it will go away. When people view something this way they tend to stop caring about it, because it's a world wide problem, not something that a small person in the world like them can do anything about.

So getting to the root of the question, is it as serious a problem as it is presented in the media? I would say no, I think its highly misrepresented and sensationalized in order to draw in viewers.

However, bullying itself is definitely a concern. There is no true justification for it, even though there are situations where the bully themselves can also be the victim, it is NEVER acceptable.

So what do we do about it? This is really dependent on the parents. People are awful, not all of us, but enough of us that we have to deal with the filth created by society. So we will experience bullying. Some of us are fortunate enough to be gifted with genetics to handle bullying, physically or otherwise, but not everyone has that benefit. We all deal with trauma differently, so it's really up to the parents to be involved enough in their child?s life to know when something is wrong and to help them through a difficult time in their life. The hope is that if the problem is addressed when the child is still in their teenage years they might develop coping mechanisms to deal with it in their adult lives. It's really about personal accountability, and until someone is no longer the ward of a parent or guardian, personal accountability means the parent.

Obviously this is not the answer, it doesn't begin to resolve the complexities of human interaction, but I believe that solutions have to start on a personal level, not through a conglomerate of people trying to fix the worlds problems.

So in the end I agree with you, teaching kids to ?deal with it? is the approach needed, but it's not as simple as just physically ?dealing with it.? No two situations are exactly the same and each solution is going to have to be tailor made. After all, we can't change the bully, but we can change ourselves.

As an after note I want to say that I know sometimes you just don't have any of the resources needed to make things better. Life sucks, a lot, people are bastards, and they love to prove it. Sometimes life is going to be shit, and there is nothing we can do about it, so I ask you this. Who are you hurting when you give up/give in?

Sometimes we get stuck in a situation where life isn't going to get better, High School is one of the best examples of a mandated time in your life when you can get stuck with people that you hate, and there is nothing that you can do about it. Time however keeps on moving, everything comes to an end, for better or worse. So even though High School might be the worst 4 years of a persons life, they will eventually be able to move on and carve a spot in the world for themselves, where they can take solace and find happiness. Frequently the worst barriers we will face to finding joy in the world, are ourselves

**EDIT
This is written from the perspective of bullying in High School, I'm not going into bullying that occurs elsewhere in life, would be far too long of a post if I did.

 

[Ashadowpie]

bullying is awful, it needs to stop. if we actually taught our children at a very early age they are wonderful and smart, and beautiful for who they are, we wouldn't have bullies in the first place.

to nip the issue in the bud, aim for the shitty parents. the bully is only bullying because they hate themselves because of the issues at the home. its ridiculous how no one ever actually does anything to prevent the development of the bully. they just target the victim, which is highly important as well mind you. the bully is never helped, and the parents are never questioned.

so many young children actually commit suicide because they are bullied daily. not a single offense, no matter how small should be looked away.

 

[TheNaut131]

...5 pages. I had a few lose thoughts but they're unraveling now.

I've seen the usual back-and-forth, bullying is unacceptable, bullying is a part of life, violence can change everything, violence doesn't work, etc, etc...

But there's something that doesn't ever really pop up. Sure, it's mostly a "what if", but most if not everything stated in this thread is a "what if", mostly based off personal experiences, but I still have to ask: If a parent knows there child is being bullied and they know at least one of the children doing the bullying, why not speak to the parent's of the bully?

Yes I know this just adds another layer of shit to the whole thing, but it's another option. That's all we really have to fall back on this issue, options. And this is one that doesn't get utilized enough. The OP and many others are right in some sense, we can't keep putting responsibility on the schools. I think a lot of parents know this too. So why doesn't it happen? Maybe because it would be too personal, meeting face-to-face with the people feeding and clothing the supposed tormentor of the their child. Maybe it's because, as history has shone, the bullies have problems of their own, and all problems start at home. But I think there's another part to this, it's a 2 part thing.

Spoiler

1. Some parents can't really come to terms with the fact their kid might be an asshole.

Every parent wants to believe their child is an alright person. That their child looks relatively decent, knows at least as much as they should, and won't get into too much trouble without some form of probable cause. But some kids just...do. If they're bullying a child, something is up. Some part of them, may want to do this. Some part of them may not understand what they're doing, but the point is this, they're causing another child, another person pain. Physically or mentally. And how the parent reacts to this information, may alter how the child thinks and grows up thinking. If the parent lashes out, claiming their child's innocence with no intent of talking...well, that get's us fucking nowhere, now does it? The child goes on doing whatever it is they do, perhaps now motivated by what appears to be approval or simply the idea that the parent doesn't know they're bullying someone. Perhaps the parent approves of it or simply doesn't cares. Kids will be kids.

But if the parent stops to at least listen to the other parent and consider what they're saying...well, it's a start. And at the end of the day a parent with a child bullying needs to tell them that they probably shouldn't be doing it. Simple. They don't need to like the people they bully or have anything to do with them. Just don't bother them if they're not bothering you. The child can take the words or simply do whatever they want to do. After that, there's not much else that can be done. Maybe punishment, maybe whatever. But it's a step in a direction to say the least.

And I'm sad to say that part 2 is this:

2. Some parents can't really come to terms with the fact their kid might be a pussy.

Every parent wants to believe their child is an alright person. That their child looks relatively decent, knows at least as much as they should, and won't get into too much trouble without some form of probable cause. But some kids just...do. If they're being bullied by a child, something is up. Yes, we have to take into account appearance and other petty things, but some part of them may be causing this. Some part of them may not understand what they're doing, but the point is this, they're letting another child, another person, inflict pain on them. Physically or mentally. Perhaps there isn't a bully at all, just weak minded child. And how a parent reacts to this information may alter how the child thinks and grows up thinking. A parent may no react, afraid to admit their child is being pushed around. This...may not get us anywhere. And history has shown that merely having the parent talk to the child about being bullied does little to change anything. Maybe the parent will tell them to fight back, or tell a teacher or something but it's all typical.

If they lash out, thirsty for blood...this may make things worse. As I said above, some parents may end up punishing their kids for bullying or forcing them to deal with some kid's angry parent, and this may anger the bully, intensifying the bullying. And this would cause more problems...though, depending on how the parents interacted, perhaps the child could learn to handle the bully. Seems like a bit of a stretch, but it's something.

However, if a parent were to react angrily, the anger could cause something else. It could put an option on the table, perhaps needed, violence. Yeah, yeah, in today's school systems it's not the best idea but sometimes...you just have to do. Hell, if the child being bullied can make some form of effort against the bully it might at least make them feel good, even if there are consequences later on. But some children can't fight back, against bully either because of how they were raised and their own moral high ground. Maybe they don't want to fight or can't come up with good comebacks. Some bullies may not give a shit.

And then there's something else...something I hate. And that's that at the end of the day it's the idea that the kids is a pussy, a coward, easily offended, whatever. It doesn't piss me off because it's insulting to the victim, it pisses me off because there's a good chance it might be true, in a sense. To be honest, real honest to goodness bullying isn't something that exist as much as it used to, nowadays. It still does, there can be a significant amount of teasing, name calling, etc but in a lot of cases it really isn't bullying. Sometimes kids just spiral things out of control in their heads and make the minor teasing by a few people more than it is. But sometimes, their reaction to minor teasing can lead to real bullying. That they're own...stupidity and fear has brought this pain to them. Does this mean they deserve to be ridiculed and humiliated? HELL NO. But is it a surprise that people don't react too kindly to someone who lashes out at tiny musings and that more join in?

Perhaps the child being bullied will figure out what they're doing wrong and change it. Problem is, kids won't just stop bullying and then the usual things happen, fighting, etc. Point is, kids, teenagers, whatever, will never let someone live down their ineptitude. A few may forget or ignore them, even to a point where the bullies are capable of being friends with their victim, but someone will always dangle it over their head and it will always hurt just a bit.

Bullying isn't something that can just be fixed and it never will be. The only thing we can really tell kids is to try not too pointlessly inflict physical or mental pain on others and you know the rest. Hope that parents raise their kids to...I'm about to type "act normal" but that isn't really 'correct' now, is it? You can't teach a kid how to not get bullied, but you can teach them how to deal with criticism and general teasing, whether it's caused by their actions or appearance. Because that may not be bullying, just...kids being the usual loudmouthed, opinionated jerks they are. Things like cyberbullying are pretty much the same thing. Their reaction to these little things may cause the bullying.

But as we all know, what I said above may not be the case.

Maybe some kids are just assholes.

Maybe some kids are just pussies.

 

[Matthewmagic]

Look, I was a scrawny gay nerd growing up.

I had it rough, everyone seemed to have a reason too pick on me, and well. At some point, you just get sick of saying something. I don't see why a child should have to deal with harassment at a public school. If a kid was going around squeezing girls tits, he would be suspended or expelled.

I think the problem with bullying isn't that the victims don't stand up for themselves, it is that the punishment for such behavior is not severe enough to detour it. If they treated bullying like they treated bringing drugs into school, parents would be more active in teaching their children not to be dicks, and children would be less likely to partake in the activity.

Saying bullied kids should "Just stand up for themselves" is like blaming the rape victim for dressing provocatively. It is a cheap excuse too remove the blame from the society that fosters it.