Bullying: Stop the complaining.

[NemotheElvenPanda]

More or less, all the bullying I dealt with from elementary to high school has left me socially stunted. I'm starting college, and I still deal with social anxiety issues that have crippled me; I literally consider myself not worthy of other peoples' time which has affected me in everything from relationships to school to work. Thankfully, I have friends and family that help me boost my ego, and the abuse has actually made me more compassionate and empathetic towards people dealing with issues from the minor to the serious along with a sense of "enduring" pain, but most victims don't have that luxury. What I went through is not the same for every case. Now, as much as I agree that fighting a bully back can help, it doesn't fit every case.

I'm small, even for guys younger than me. I'm 19 at 5'2" inches and 96 lbs. I'm also not intimidating personality wise, plus I'm gay, which apparently means "soft" in the mind of most guys. I like peace, I love quiet, and I hate drama to the point where I'll leave a scene or socially shut down when there will be conflict. So, some of the people here are expecting someone like *me* to punch some bloke's nose in? Seriously? We can talk about how to end and what causes bullying all we want, but how about we actually protect those among us that can't protect themselves first?

This includes adults, not just kids. It should be basic common sense and human decency that when you see someone innocent and meek be abused by someone who clearly isn't either or, you should stop it. Really, if people were just more proactive in helping others, the destructive effects bullying has on its victims in general wouldn't be such an issue. All this social darwinism BS doesn't help anyone. Being "thin-skinned" isn't a bad thing; who do think makes some of the best counselors, teachers, basically anyone that deals with people, like victims of bullying, or what it should be really be called, abuse? Ones that know how to relate to others with the will to help them in anyway possible. In that light, teachers shouldn't be pinned down by potential lawsuits or angry parents.

 

[blackrave]

Well I don't know the circumstances behind what happened to you, but if it went that far I would say you would have been justified to kill the person while they had a knife... what I cannot understand is why you did not just go to the police after the fact. Rape crosses the line from bullying way out into federal offense territory w/ long term prison time. No local cop brushing it off as boys will be boys there. I know it's scary, but rape is not just bullying anymore and rapists have to be stopped.

How is it not bullying? It's a crime of violence and power, and baby, what is bullying if not about power?

What he meant was that this was much worse than usual bullying
I think, maybe I'm wrong

 

[EtherealBeaver]

This is probably going to be ignored like most other posts on this forum but meh - for anyone interested, here is my story. Do with it as you like.

My family was always a little off, my father traveled alot and I never had too many close friends. Starting in school, I still didnt have too many friends but I always had my heart in the right place. In pre-school I once told my mother that there was a girl in my class and she was smaller than the other kids so if anyone teased her, I would stand up for her.

There was a kid in my class who some of the other kids loved to make fun of because he always got so mad that he would throw chairs around and the teachers either didnt notice or didnt care. Turned out he had ADHD and he soon transferred to another school, leaving the resident bullies looking for a new victem - and my mothers idea that I should definately go into extra-corricular singing lessons on the school as well as start in the local boyscouts chapter didnt excatly help my "cool factor" so I became their new victem. I will say that what follows is also something I blame greatly on my parents for their inability to realise just how bad it was when their son came home everyday from school, crying and spent at least half of all mornings sick from sheer terror of the thought of having to go to school. That doesnt excuse the bullies though.

They would spread rumors about me, throw snowballs with solid cores of ice after me on the street, harrass me, push me around and make sure I could never make any friends. When winter came, the older kids in school would basically force most of the younger kids out on the lawn and make them dig up gravel which they blended in with the snow for their "snowballs" (which consisted more of gravel than snow) and they would use them to "wash" your face - or to put it more precisely, grind them into your face, leaving scrapes and marks all over your face. One kid even got a permanent scratch on his retnia once. Anyway, guess who was their prime target - thats, right. Me.

I usually survived winter by keeping indoors at the school library when they were open but often they wouldnt be and the school had a policy that all kids must be outdoors during recess so I had to hide behind containers or on the toilet when I didnt succeed in hiding in the classroom before the door got locked for the recess. It wouldnt always work though, so sometimes I would have to just curl up in the snow somewhere and hope to go unnoticed.

Anyway, time went on and I entered 4th grade and I remember being tied to a small wagon we had (basically a box with wheels under it, used to store blankets and jumping ropes), and raced down the long narrow corridoors so my class"mates" could see how fast they could drive me into the walls. One time I got pushed down the 2 story stair case while tied to it. Some other poor guy got hogtied with the jumping ropes and strung up in the corridoor where you would hang jackets. It was the noon recess (2nd out of 3 in an entire day) which was the longest one so he hang there for almost 45 minutes.

My class wasnt excatly the best one though. I later heard that, at the municipality on the offices behind locked doors, my school would be referred to as "the trash can" and it was basically the place where they put kids who were kicked out of all the other schools - and my class was one of the worst. In the teachers lounge, where I spent time outside the door because it was rare to get bullied there, I often heard teachers trying to bargain off our class to new substitutes. I remember one time we had a substitute where things went really crazy. My class was really quiet all the time and, while nice, it was also quite eerie. One of the pupils even placed an apple on the teachers desk before she came in. I later heard that she was so proud of how well the class had gone that she brought back her "victory apple" as she called it. They split it in the teachers lounge to celebrate, only to find a razor blade inside. Luckily no one got hurt there. But I digress.

I still got picked at, my stuff got stolen and I often had my things thrown out the 2nd story window so I had to go down to the parking lot to get it. I remember one year where the bullies in my class had hidden a crate of milk (25cl packages) in the basement over summer so they could get really horrifying. When we got back from the summer vacation, they had turned in early to wait for me. As I entered the main entrance in the school yard, they were standing on the 2nd foor, bombarding me with the milk.

Anyway, this is too depressing to write and I only started writing about 5th grade. I think Ill stop it here. I left out numerous assaults (not just "getting beat up" - regular assaults), pupils bringing knives and a gun to school, pupils loosening the rail on the 2nd floor staircase, pupils trying to burn down the school by the containers while I was at the toilet which is entered behind said containers, thefts, daily/weekly vandalism of my bike and clothes and a bunch of other stuff - not to mention the constant harrassing and psychological torture.

My question to the appologists I guess is this; Do you honestly belive anyone should ever be treated like that ever? I personally dont feel like I deserved it - Im 28 years old now and I still suffer from depression and nightmares and as a result of all of this I have developed socio-phobia which makes living a normal life rather hard.

Edit: This is not in some third-world country btw. This was in the late 1980´s and early 1990´s in Copenhagen, the capitol of Denmark, scandinavia

Edit2: The principal was an alcoholic so in case anyone wonders - thats why he didnt do anything about it. He spend the classes on the corridoors drinking scotch from the bottle and the recess time in his office drinking beer.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

Yeah like everyone else already said, other people are not you, and this isn't some fucking macho power fantasy where everyone can solve everything with violence. Almost all of the time you need adults who work at the school to stop the bullying.

 

[JWAN]

This is the definition of a bully according to Dictionary.com.
a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.

Bullies don't give a single fuck about your words (or anyone else's). They don't give a single fuck about your opinion (or anyone else's). They don't give a fuck about your opinion (Or anyone else's). How do you talk to someone like that? How do you communicate with a brick wall? Short answer: You can't. (If you were seen talking to either one I would consider you at the same level of crazy)

Bullying has been around forever and people need to teach their kids how to deal with it. The most effective, and most immediate remedy I found when I was bullied was to hit them in the gut, they lean forward then bring your arm in and elbow their jaw. Excruciatingly painful for them and they wont be able to shove you around or call you names because if you hit them hard enough in the stomach they piss themselves and the elbow shot makes their mouth get all swollen. I tried talking to bullies for years and in private school we were punished severely for physical attacks, we could have been expelled. That never stopped the bullies. That only made the targets easier targets.

Name calling is name calling. That doesn't constitute violence.

 

[JWAN]

Yeah like everyone else already said, other people are not you, and this isn't some fucking macho power fantasy where everyone can solve everything with violence. Almost all of the time you need adults who work at the school to stop the bullying.

So what do you do when the adults can't help?

 

[TheBelgianGuy]

Because certain traits (Being unintelligent, being morbidly obese, lacking any semblance of social skills) are traits that hurt both the individual and society. Hence the individual ought to work to change the traits. Social skills can be improved through practice, weight can be lost with determination and effort, and poor intelligence can be marginally increased with reading and math practice.

Changing these traits is not easy, so people need a hefty motivation to put in the massive amount of work required. That motivation comes in the form of peer pressure, in this discussion "bullying"

Really it's amazing to what lengths people will defend their "right" to have a personal flaw, despite it being entirely possible to work to overcome or conceal that flaw.

So because I was scrawny, had bad skin, and lacked some social skills, it was good for society that I got death threats at home, assaulted physically, and got raped at knifepoint in a locker room? It was just good peer pressure to get me to change, you saying?

But see, he's a proponent of Social Darwinism. He believes it was morally rights for the White man to subjugate all the lesser races from Africa, the Americas and Asia, and naturally the nazi's Holocaust was completely correct.

Or maybe he doesn't realize that's what he's proposing, and he's just another brave internet warrior who talks tough from behind his computer screen

 

[JWAN]

Yeah like everyone else already said, other people are not you, and this isn't some fucking macho power fantasy where everyone can solve everything with violence. Almost all of the time you need adults who work at the school to stop the bullying.

So what do you do when the adults can't help?

Its true, sometimes you in a dammed if you do dammed if you don't position. But then his point is that often their IS no easy solution. Sometimes their isn't even a solution at all.

Yes I completely understand. When I was bullied (I went to a private school) we were severely punished (suspensions) for any physical violence whatsoever. The issue with that is it made easy targets REALLY easy targets. So what can be done if the adults can't help? I personally took the 3 day suspension because eventually I freaked out on the shitbird and beat him up when his buddies weren't around. It all stopped after that. I felt better about myself and the bully didn't bother me anymore.

The sad part is that bullies just move onto another target because they are mentally incapable of processing others feelings. They are sociopaths in every way. Nothing will change until the NEXT person snaps on them OR unless someone else steps in. So essentially the cycle continues until the targets have more friends than the bully.

I am often reminded of an except from a book my counselor suggested I read (during my time in suspension). It was called "On Combat" and the author Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. The entire excerpt is all over the internet now and while it does reference 9/11 it is nothing short of a brilliant social analysis (in my own humble opinion of-course).
On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs:
We know that the sheep live in denial; that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids? schools. But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid?s school. Our children are dozens of times more likely to be killed, and thousands of times more likely to be seriously injured, by school violence than by school fires, but the sheep?s only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their children is just too hard, so they choose the path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn?t tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, ?Baa.?

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

This is the description of "sheep" by the way, its not to be insulting its just a term used in the explanation.
?Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.?

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin?s egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful. For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.
?Then there are the wolves,? the old war veteran said, ?and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy.? Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

Fighting back isn't about a "power fantasy" like the first guy I quoted said. Its about standing up for yourself and doing whats right and standing up for the person next to you.

 

[XDravond]

Can always throw in my own experiences

Bullied name/glasses/bad temper/a bit different (not proper outcast but something like that) made a fun mix.
I was more or less bullied constantly for 7years on and of for another 3.

What happened is I exploded and started fighting not really considering they were a group of 5+ and I should get my but kicked mostly I got out pretty unharmed.


The teachers did try every now and then to "fix" things, at least when I exploded in class... But they barley did what minimal they could, talk with mostly MY parents, not so often the bullies..., send me to the school shrink, witch really didn't work 'cus when they got me there I already mostly settled down in my "leave me alone and I, or else I will say/do things that is not appreciated" and not responding to anything.... It takes a lot of energy to go berserk...
This however was before the "diagnose every small deviation from standard model" craze, if it weren't I would be sitting on a pile of diagnoses for both this and that probably eating pills to...


But how I got "free" was the change in classes when going middle school ->high school and controlling my temper, ignoring the "new" bullies and that was about it but they did try and I got tired of it so I did what they always tell you go to the teachers... And as one of the most mind blowing moments during high school for me it, for the first time in my life, actually worked.
I just hinted that I were tired of some people trying to set fire to my locker and the stuff inside by spraying perfume on it and then light it on fire... and my goodness all hell broke loose it was all kinds of meetings and talks and a bit of yelling, at the BULLIES, now that surprised me, A LOT, and every single one came and said sorry (more or less forced..) and they only tried stuff like that like twice but those times I were in on it, setting school on fire the last days in it is a special kind of fun...
But the proper fighting stopped after middle school and they rarely wanted to just use me as a punching bag etc it was "just" a game for them to get me angry and go loose on everything.
So fighting back didn't really, telling people didn't either, ignoring sort of worked but not always.. Fighting back did only worsen the "problem" by the way, because it was so fun getting me mad and getting one or two hits didn't scare them of mostly because they were a big group (5 or more) and I was alone so I were sure to get more beaten anyhow I did... And I sent several of them to the school nurse but never got anything big enough to get there myself... And we didn't have detention etc witch might have either worked or been counter productive since me, the bullied, was the more fighting one...


Have some other *fun* memories from back then a really special one is when it took three reasonably strong male teachers to keep me a 9 year old kid from breaking free and to do my best to kill my fellow student/s, witch I probably would've...
/In a very sarcastic voice/ Haaa those were the days young and happy../

However trying to make me mad now-days is almost a work of art... hasn't happened in more than 5 years and I am never considered to be easily upset etc... But I still have some problems in social gatherings like going to bars etc and talking to people in general...

So there is not a single solution working for everyone but many and bullying needs to be fought always because to many a pressed to the brink of sanity, or a cliff for that matter. And the earlier the "intervention" happens and stops the bulling the less damage to the bullied and more probable they all are going to grow up to be "nice" people, although to quote Yathzee "all people are shit..." and not social outcast or criminals etc.



TLR
Bullied guy still got some small issues, probably due to the bullying, but never wants anyone to have to go through anything like that.
And there is almost never one universal solution.

 

[General Vagueness]

Why is it presented as a big deal?
Columbine.
Columbine and the rash of other school shootings that happened in the next few months and years.
Kids, especially ones that have started puberty, are smarter and more unpredictable than most of adult society gives them credit for. A lot of them had this realization of "Fists? Screw that, I'm bringing a gun." That's the big reason.
Even without that factor, kids:
- are cruel
- are impulsive
- don't know their own strength
- may have unrealistic ideas about physics and the human body
That's a recipe for getting one of those kids paralyzed for life or even killed. Shutting up a bully-- or worse, a bully shutting up someone who had the guts to stand up to them-- is not worth that.
Even disregarding any kind of outward violence, there's still the fact tons of bullied kids have killed themselves-- I don't think it's ever the only reason and most would at least agree it's rare, but in most suicides (and a lot of attempted ones) of bullied kids it's a big, big factor.
Yes, South Park talked about bullying recently, and they had a lot of good points, but despite being smarter than people might think, kids don't necessarily have the strength of mind it takes to let stuff like this go, and for a lot of them it never even occurs to them that's an option until they're told or they find out the hard way.
Not only that, but a lot of the time bullying stems from something in the bully's life, possibly something that could be fixed or improved that they're lashing out about instead of talking about (the classic example being some kind of abuse). Someone coming forward and telling a parent or teacher or whoever can get them to look at the situation and see if the bully has problems of their own they don't deserve.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

Yeah like everyone else already said, other people are not you, and this isn't some fucking macho power fantasy where everyone can solve everything with violence. Almost all of the time you need adults who work at the school to stop the bullying.

So what do you do when the adults can't help?

Well of course THEN you should try to solve it yourself, as long as you honestly think it might have a shot at working. Every situation is different.

If you have no reason to believe it will work or you tried and it didn't or made the situation worse then you should probably try changing schools. If you can't for whatever reason then your fucked. The only option is to try to bear it through until you get out of there.

I know it's grim but if you cant solve the problem and other people cant solve it for you then the problem is obviously not going to be solved.

 

[Eggsnham]

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, etc. etc.

Or creates long-term health issues that dog you for the rest of your life.


Can you imagine if this attitude applied to other crimes? "Oh, well, burglary is a problem, but why is everyone going whining to the police? Why don't they just stay home all night to catch them in the act?"

"Oh, well, sure some people are getting murdered, but there's no sense arresting murderers when we should be training people to stand up to murderers."

"Sure, a lot of people park their cars illegally, but why are we wasting time with fines? Just bash in their headlights with a baseball bat, that'll solve it pretty quick."

The reasons that we go to authorities are the reasons that we have authorities - they take time and training, ideally, to deal with situations that the average person does not. The average person should not have to train to harden themselves against bullying, because not everyone is the same and for a lot of people, that hardening is accompanied by serious emotional problems, which leads on the one hand to depression, ruined lives, or even suicide, and on the other hand to becoming the exact sort of abusive prick that has been picking on them. A huge percentage of bullies are people who had been abused before.

In retrospect, my choice of proverb wasn't all that great.

And you're right in that there are a huge range of issues in which opposition only leads to failure.

However, I wasn't talking about murderers, thieves, rapists, and shitty drivers; I was talking about childhood bullies. Most childhood bullies don't do the things they do with the intent of killing, raping, or parking a car like a driver's ed student; they may try and steal something from you; but unless it's something of great value, or vitally important, then I'd say you have bigger things to think about.

Obviously there are places where the term 'bully' is synonymous with 'gang-banger'. In such cases it is almost invariably better to go to authorities, or at the very least stay out of their way. I made my previous post under the assumption that people would already know this.

EDIT: Forgot to write up the other portion of my post before posting.

I'm also aware that some people may not be physically or mentally equipped to stand up to bullies. In a situation such as that, the best one can do is tell the authorities about it and hope for a positive outcome.

That said, in my personal experience, I've only ever seen bullies back off when I stood up to them. If I ever tried to tell teachers, or my parents, etc. I would just get even more shit for it. Eventually, I stood up to them; they backed right off and I haven't heard from them since.

You don't have to harden yourself to deal with bullies, you just need to emulate their presence, and a majority of the time, they'll leave you alone. Turns out that even bullies don't like being intimidated.

As for the folks who stand up to their tormenters only to become exactly like them... well, I'd say that's their fault. Nobody makes you act the way you do; it's your thoughts, your actions.

Anyways, I feel like I'm talking in circles, so I'll just cut it off here.

 

[flaviok79]

As a former victim of bullying during childhood and as a teenager, I agree that it can be terrible. But I see the point that it prepares, in a very sick way, to some of the hardships of adulthood. So, I believe that the appropriate answer to it, by parents and school officials, is to try and coach kids who suffer from it in order to overcome it, wile monitoring the situation, so it doesn't get out of control ( as in excessive violence or assassination plans).

 

[Blunderman]

I was bullied as a child and I wouldn't change it, because it taught me that I must never care even the slightest about the opinions of others. Words mean absolutely nothing; they have no consequences. Talk is cheap and trivial and paying attention to it must only be a choice. If the bullying is physical, it may require the intervention of an adult, and in those cases, the adult should realise that a stern "talking to" won't do anything, since, like I said, words are nothing, only actual consequences will make any difference.

However, let it be known that being bullied is not the only way of learning such a lesson, nor am I claiming that it is the best. Also, bullying is just a symptom of how embarrassingly poor the modern educational system is; adult authority is completely undermined and children are conditioned to hold in higher esteem those who are just as young and uneducated as they are.

Young people and children are stupid and ignorant and need to be treated as such. Freedom is a privilege, not a right, and to properly teach any of them you need to use both the stick and the carrot. It is just as senseless as the correctional system ? not all character flaws can be solved through nurturing.

 

[Spartan Altego]

snip

i respond to you with a simple, some kids don't have anyone, i get what your saying, its just that some kids dont have people who care about them, there for what do they have to loose.

I assume you're replying to my anti-suicide statement.

What do they have to lose? How about their life for starters? Any chance of finding the happiness that eludes them is gone forever the moment they give up on life. Lack of friends at the moment does not equate to forever alone. There's always going to be somebody, somewhere who cares about you or is willing to. The trick is finding them if you haven't. And even if you don't the fact is no matter how long the bullying lasts or how terrible it is, it ends the moment you leave school for good. If the best you can do is hold out until that time, so be it.

You may disagree, but that's my stance and I'm sticking to it.

 

[SixWingedAsura]

Violence, Violence, and more Violence.

I should know. As a former bully victim, every time I snapped and responded with physical violence (effective or not), I was never tormented again by that individual. I know I shouldn't be advocating this, but all the talking and the pleading and the telling teachers/adults/counsellors in the world didn't do crap. A good solid right hook did wonders.

As a former victim, I can tell you that it didn't work when the guy was a psycho who didn't care if I hurt him.

It didn't work on the guy who came back with two mates.

It didn't work on the girl who brought her crew of fuck-buddies along (Who were 3 years older than me), at which point, my attempt to fight back resulted in being pinned by 4 people much bigger than me (I hadn't had my growth spurt).

It works for some people. One little turd started trying to harrass me verbally. I was having a terrible day, and I pummeled him. He never spoke with anything but respect to me afterwards.

I almost broke a guys orbital bone once. He still wanted to fight me one on one.

Violence is an inconsistent solution at best, and if it's your only suggestion, then those who can't physically fight off any combination of attackers are left with only the option of using weapons. We really don't need to see kids killing bullies with guns simply because people refuse to consider solutions beyond the victim dealing with it themselves.

As a previous bully victim, I'll freely admit: I wanted my tormentors dead. I never considered suicide much back then, because the moment I did, I got angry, and told myself "Fuck it. It's not my problem here, these people enjoy hurting me, and I'm damn well not giving them the satisfaction of winning. It shouldn't be me who dies, it should be them."

Well, that was just my expierence personally, and you are right. It is inconsistant. However, I think people need to realize that either the teachers/parents/authority figures do something about bullying, or the victims will do something about it, and not everyone is as nice as I am with a simple punch. I'd never wanted to kill anyone, but I wanted to show them that I had enough.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Growing up, I experienced my fair share of bullying. Ranged from insults, to actual fights. But, I was taught to always stand up to bullies and stick up for others who were being bullied. Disagreements or bullies that took things to far usually ended up in the park, where we settled things with fists. One of us usually got the point after that.

The issue is this. WHY is bullying being presented in such a way today that it seems to make people want to jump off tall building?

Yea, it sucks, I get that. But in life, bullies will always be around. In fact, you can still find them in the grown up world. They just usually come from the back with a knife instead of a punch in the face.

Except that those are wildly different situations. You "solved" your problems with bullies with fistfights, correct? Did they come to respect and/or befriend you afterwards?

And now you're comparing murderers to bullies? Wow.

Wouldn't a more apt solution to the bullying problem be to teach kids to stand up for themselves and others?

Given your previous comparison, I assume that you also endorse the disbandment of all police and law enforcement agencies. Because really: if you can't deal with a knife-wielding maniac on your own, you don't deserve to live.

The most common solutions that are being presented today are some of the most asinine things.

1. Telling a teacher
2. Ignoring it
3. ETC.

Most responses to bullies seem to be running away from the problem or shirking off the responsibility of the problem to a third party, RATHER then dealing with the issue yourself.

It's almost as if those are the best options besides resorting to physical violence.

You've failed to take into account a few possibilities:

1) You're dealing with someone bigger than you. When you're a child, you don't have a lot of weight to throw around, and differences in height and weight matter a lot. You can be significantly smaller and weaker than the person preying on you, and trying to fight them can get you put in traction.

2) You're dealing with someone who is acting on reasonable beliefs. A bully won't pause and rationalize that his reasoning for beating on you isn't logical. Overwhelmingly, bullies do what they do because A) they enjoy it or B) it makes up for some emotional inadequacy/trauma/whatever. And they don't take kindly to you point it out to them, or trying to make them feel weak by trying to beat them up.

I mean, Jesus, even in your real-world comparison, fighting back yourself is a galactically bad idea. Being harassed by some gangbanger? Well, just beat the shit out of him. I'm sure your problems will end there, right?

Maybe I'm old school, but in life, you can't wait for someone else to rescue you from your problems.

You compared childhood bullies to knife-wielding murderers. I would fucking hope that you can count on someone else to help you in that sort of situation.

Is the issue of bullying in the states a serious matter as presented in the media? Should kids learn to stand up for themselves? What are your personal experiences of bullying and how you handled them? What do you think of bulling overall?

That's an unbelievably loaded question. It's taking the issue and turning it into a question of whether or not you want yourself/your children/your country/whatever to be weak and victimized or not.

Ex: "Oh, you don't like nuclear proliferation? Don't you want your nation to be able to defend itself?"

"Oh, you don't like current gun ownership standards? Don't you want to defend your family from armed criminals?"

See? You're setting up the debate for failure. You're not presenting any middle ground between "Strong, confident children" and "Weeping punching-bags."

 

[emeraldrafael]

I think there's a time to fight and then there's a time to stay passive. I still believe the biggest help to being bullied is having good friends. I dont know if its as big a deal as what the media makes it, because on one hand its not like mass cult suicides, but if this is something thats definitively driving up suicide rates then yeah it should be looked at at the very least.

 

[RA92]

Yeah, it's a bit overblown. The last time someone bullied me, I took my dad's unregistered semi-auto and shot the whole place up. Then I ran away from the state.

I'm at your state right now. In fact, in your school.

Hope we can be friends.

 

[IndomitableSam]

Me? I want to run into them on the street with their families present. And I want to be all fake friendly "Hi, how're you doing", etc... and then say, "You were an awful person when you were younger - I honestly hope you have lived a miserable life and your children never turn out like you." ... Or if their kids are present, turn to the kids and say "Hey, did you know your mom/dad used to be like/did X when they were younger? I hope you don't turn out like them." ... And then walk away.

Honestly, I'm satisfied with my life now, but there are things you never get over.

I was a bully sometimes, in that I bowed to peer pressure so just once it wouldn't be me being picked on, and I think about those people I hurt all the time. I hope they... well, no... Yes. I do hope they are happy and healthy. The ones left alive. One still haunts me - in third grade he came to Canada and I was assigned to help him out and help him learn, which I did happily. But we weren't friends, ever. Just after high school ended, he "fell" off a dock at a bar and died. Consensus is he was pushed, and if you gave me a list of the people present at the time, I could probably tell you who did it.

I grew up in an interesting neighbourhood in the 80's and 90's right by the university. So most of the white families were middle to upper-middle class, people who worked at the University or had good jobs downtown. The rest of the population was immigrants, mostly east and west asians. If you looked at it broadly, thee were more 'foreign' people than 'white' kids at school, so racism wasn't much of an issue, but regular bullying was, as it is everywhere.

Anyway... my advice? Having been one, and having been a teacher:

Never, EVER be a teenage girl. Don't have girl children, either. The world will break your heart and twist your mind and leave you a broken soul, jaded, scarred and horribly malformed. Forgiveness will be near impossible, and you will never be able to look at another human being without wondering what they're going to do to hurt you next.

The world is an awful place, and I don't know how to fix it. All I know is I will never have daughters.

Just... tell a girl that she is a beautiful and wonderful person and that life gets better. If you need to hide through your school years, just hide. Keep yourself safe, and if you've taken risks and they've hurt you... wait until high school is over before you try again, and be careful. The rest of your life as a woman is going to be a competition that you can never win. Try and find the little moments that make you happy, and make home a safe place where you can go. Find people who love you, and do what you enjoy, because whatever you do in life, someone will always judge you for it. Just do what makes you happy and keeps you as safe as you need to be.