buying used games is stupid

[CM156_v1legacy]

my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money.

By that kind of dodgy accounting they could also claim that it costs them money when people lend games for friends to play. Or have their friends around and let them play the game. A friend lent my brother Assassin's Creed II just recently; both my brother and I played it. Did we just cost Ubisoft two purchases?

no because you weren't paying money to do so, people buying used ARE. And yeah im behind content creators getting money for what they make.

You mean like they do when the game sells the first time? Yeah. I don't think any of us damn them for that.

 

[Iwata]

I buy used games all the time. Why? Because given the choice, I'd rather pay 10 bucks for a game than 50. If the difference is minimal, I'll go with a new copy, but really, if I can buy a game for a quarter or a fifth of the full price, then I won't hesitate. I'm not swimming in a pool of money, and it's good that we have this alternative to keep updated.

And as far as that "no appreciation for a game collection" comment goes, I have about 150 games on the PS3 alone. Sometimes I increase the collection by trading in a crap new game for three or four good older ones. How is that bad?

 

[Jakub324]

What? I like used games. I have games I bought for £12.95 after a few years of owning them.

 

[TheDooD]

GameStop really helped me COLLECT used games when I was underage because my mom didn't really want me to have a credit line so young. Overall buying a game used when it's only 3-8 bucks off full price is stupid. Unless it's you're only choice like shit is sold out, a few mooks wasted their money and returned it. When it comes down to that I really don't see a problem at all.

 

[Something Amyss]

.....you can buy used from Amazon too. And you act like supporting GameStop is a bad thing. I've went there for years, they have never treated me badly as a customer.

But...But...They're destroying the industry somehow!

Anyway, I wouldn't buy a game used at Gamestop within a few months, but the thing with used games is you can get them really cheap. Whining about new games being bought at one outlet is kind of silly.

 

[DEAD34345]

Actually used games benefit both the retailer and the guy who re-sold their game back to the retailer. The publisher sees nothing from the sale of the game, because it is not their game any more, as they have already sold it. The sale has nothing to do with them, and nor should it. To this day I still can't believe that companies have actually managed to convince people that this is a bad thing. I just... I don't have words.

If you said the same thing in any other market then you would just be laughed at. "Buying used cars is wrong because the poor car companies don't get any profit when someone else sells the car they've bought. All the profit just goes straight to the car dealer."

Really, this is just a worrying sign of things to come. Game companies will find more and more ways to try to stop us from doing what we want with our games, and we will thank them for it.

 

[TheDooD]

why yes. if you're buying used games for 53$ your doing it wrong.

if you buy used for say....25$ then whats the big issue.

What is it with people all of the sudden wanting to support the big faceless soulless corporations because they say we're taking their money? Buying used is and has always been part of the standard economy. Just because think they deserve have a share in used products, doesn't mean they do.

My theory is people from said AAA publishers are trolling forums to get people behind their ideals. If this is true said publishers can rot in hell because you guys aren't broke so quit whining about you're losing money when you're taking the biggest cut when games are sold anyway.

 

[redisforever]

I buy only used console games. Why? I only have an original Xbox. So that limits my options.
And the rest I buy from Steam.

 

[Thetwistedendgame]

Well, if nobody was allowed to buy used games, I couldn't sell my used games, and I need that money for NEW games. If you think about it that way, you're still supporting the company that made the games.

 

[GotMalkAvian]

Okay... First of all, here's my policy on game buying:

1. A new IP that I want to give money to or a sequel to a franchise I love - I'll buy new.
2. A game that I'm leery about for any reason - I'll buy used once it drops to $40 or so.

First, to address the "evil corporations' trade-in policies"... The only retailer I really frequent for games in GameStop. Why? Their staff is always friendly and can actually answer the question "Have you heard anything about this game?" They tend to stock every new release - for consoles, at least - regardless of how obscure. I'm aware of just how little they'll usually offer for trade-ins, so I wait for the bonus credit incentives they always run. I've traded in relatively recent games that I just wasn't playing anymore during these offers and I've often gotten close to what I paid for them.

I never used to trade games when I was younger. I had a collection of somewhere over 100 NES games, 80 or so Sega Genesis games, about 100 PS2 games, and at least 50 Xbox 360 games. Then I moved into the real world where things like bills and rent are a concern. Now, given the choice between re-playing an old game that I'm sick of or trading it in to save for a new game that I want, the choice is obvious. There are some games (Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins, fighting games) that I won't trade in because the replay value is still there for me. However, I don't really have the luxury of holding to games just for the sake of hoarding while still spending money on new games.

The used game market isn't hurting the gaming industry nearly as much as they'd like us to think it is. After all, the auto, music, and DVD industries have managed to survive the used market and I don't hear nearly as many complaints from them. Selling used video games is a valid form of distribution, and if the developers and publishers don't like it, they'll need to find creative ways to encourage consumers to buy products new. Looks at the often-maligned Catwoman DLC code for Arkham City; I actually think that's a fair tactic to use to encourage the purchase of a new copy of the game. Besides, someone can pick up a used copy someone down the line for $30, pay $10 extra for Catwoman if they really want, and they'll still get the whole experience for $20 less than I did on day one.

 

[Cpl.Flint]

Do car makers sell less cars because people buy used cars? No.

Yes, actually. I'm quite sure the used car's resale won't benefit the manufacturer in any way.

I think his point is the manufacturers deal with it. They don't track the cars, then when it's changed owner, slap on a ridiculous activation fee to use the stereo.

Quantic Dream's Heavy Rain lost between 5 and 10 million euro's to used sales (ref: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-12-used-market-cost-heavy-rain-1m-sales). Seriously, think about it. That's a huge loss and in the end it will only bite us gamers in the butt as the smaller devs won't be able to overcome these losses.

He said that after the game sold 2 million copies. Which turned a profit for them. And if the "loss" of 1 million sales caused him to "lose" 5-10 million euros, then he must have gained 10-20 million, correct?

Well, you're totally right when you say that the game did eventually make a profit or at least made money (I have no idea how expensive this game was to create.)

But the fact that the game did make a profit isn't really my point, my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money. Sure, there are still plenty of people (2 million in this case) who did buy the game new, but it must be frustrating to see so many people playing your game, whilst knowing that only two thirds of them paid you for it.... As Foundamiere puts it:

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between ?5 and ?10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming."

Or maybe he should have assumed that those million weren't going to ever be customers until they saw it cheap second hand? You cant automatically assume a used customer is going to be a full price customer. Its not a million lost sales, its a million people that might never have been a sale in the first place if they couldn't get it cheap. I know I wouldn't gamble on a full priced game I wasn't 100% certain I wanted or would enjoy.

I've bought many a PC game second hand cheap to try it out. Fallout 3 is my prime example for now. I bought the standard game second hand to try it out. I thought it was fantastic on every level for the money I had spent. Disc eventually gave in. I went and bought the full GOTY edition brand new. I also pre-ordered Fallout:NV. would I have done this if I hadn't tried it that first time cheaply? Hell no. They gained sales thanks to the second hand market.

They need to keep their dirty paws off it. We all know that compared to other forms of media that gaming is relatively young. That doesn't mean it should act like a stroppy teenager in comparison to the other forms. Head bosses are just spitting the dummy because they can't get their own way or enough money. It pretty much just represents the forms age all over I think.

Anyway, in response to the original topic. I buy used if theres a decent saving. I am a steam user though and never play consoles, so I live off the steam sales. They tend to work out cheaper than second hand at times. The only problem is finding the really old stuff at a price I find reasonable.

 

[Michael Hirst]

How about when I got Spiderman: Shattered dimensions for £18 used about a month after release when it was still £40 everywhere I looked and because it was used Activision got none of my money

Sometimes online stores can do really good deals but they're not consistent, used games are an easy method of buying a fun game for a lower more affordable price, at the end of the day this is a question of finances not morals.

Second hand sales are part of every product that is sold these days, videogames can't be afforded special rights because they're still working in a capitalist system where competition is allowed, Music, Cars, Fridges, Vaccum Cleaners, DVD Players, Televisions, Instruments, Power Tools, Toys, Books, Trampolines. Are just a few of many things that get sold second hand and their respective industries have to accomodate for it, they don't get to whine and ***** that they've lost money due to them.

Also for that guy from Quantic Dream, screw him, yes Heavy Rain had a good story and great music but nothing else, the gameplay was fucking boring, people traded it in because they knew the story and felt there was nothing else to play it for, you failed at making a replayable game, people were aware of this and bought it used because they didn't want to spend a lot of money ona one time only game.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

boohoo the poor fragile industry
i buy used because its cheaper, gamestation currently has Arkham Asylum on a 2 for £20, sounds good to me. Sometimes i wait until they're on sale.

I vote with my wallet, I've pre-ordered only 2 games this year.
if the industry doesnt like it they can either up their game and innovate, lower the prices or stop moaning. If we have another industry crash I wont lose any sleep, I certainly wont feel guilty for not making wallet to developer transfusions out of some sort of imagined moral obligations.

 

[MysticToast]

I read through a few responses and don't feel like going through the rest of the thread, but there's just one thing that's relevant here I wanna say.

Can we please stop this line of thinking that buying used games doesn't support the developer? Because you're right, it doesn't. But they've made money on the game once already, so they've gotten their due.

This is the most common argument I see when people argue against used games and it's really getting on my nerves

 

[Iwata]

There is also something else a lot of people seem to be forgetting: for some people, there is simply no choice. It's buy used, or don't buy at all.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

i live in the UK and it's cheaper to buy the games used.
seriously, why have a games collection. you probably won't go back and play them again, and you'd be wasting money you could get back by trading in the games. plus, it's just one more thing to pack if you move house.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I read through a few responses and don't feel like going through the rest of the thread, but there's just one thing that's relevant here I wanna say.

Can we please stop this line of thinking that buying used games doesn't support the developer? Because you're right, it doesn't. But they've made money on the game once already, so they've gotten their due.

This is the most common argument I see when people argue against used games and it's really getting on my nerves

Also, they aren't necessarily supporting the developer. The devs are paid. They may get a bonus for good sales, but that money from the purchases is going to the publisher.

 

[Lt. Vinciti]

1. I never understood but why does the pound use a , instead of the . ?

Also....umm...I have a semidecent collection of games as we speak...mostly because I either:

A. Like them
B. Know they are worth zilch
C. Trading among friends

Also when it comes to saving and buying new.... Rapestop wanted $55 (for BLOPS FFS!) and the used store nearby wanted...wait for it... $42 which is a wee bit better in my book...also I abuse the hell out of Rapestops 7 Day Hate It or Beat It policy

 

[Daverson]

The issue with the "lost sales" argument, is that a lot of people who do buy used games wouldn't have brought the game new anyhow.

But, if someone were to have dismissed a game on launch, then brought a used copy a few months later, and loved the game, they're more likely to buy a sequel (or a similar game from the same dev) on launch. If they hadn't brought a used copy, they'd probably never have tried the game at all, and would have dismissed it like they did the original.

Just a thought.

 

[Spandexpanda]

What I fail to see is why people complain about the used game market so much when virtually every other product in the world has a used market. Books are sold to libraries, where thousands of people will read one copy of a book. This only gives one sale to the writer/publisher. DVDs can be bought preowned (and are) as are CDs and other media. Hell, why does nobody complain about game rental shops? In those instances, similarly to libraries, the publisher only gets one sale, but another company makes hundreds off one copy, it's a nearly identical principle! Clothing can be bought in thrift shops, books can be bought second hand, musical instruments can be bought second hand, cars, even houses! The builder of a house doesn't complain that he doesn't make money every time a house is rented or resold. Why should the games companies?