Calling a Kid the "C" Word
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
Perhaps it would have been best to use the words, "little shit" in place of "****." Most of the younger children I have encountered can be quite irritable. I know I was horrid in elementary school (Primary school for non-Americans).
No. YOU should sit back and allow someone to disrespect you or your family. Criticism is something you can step back and ask those questions, but calling a young girl a **** is something else entirely.th3dark3rsh33p said:
I don't get what's supposed to be funny about calling a 9-year-old a **** with a straight face. But then again, I don't really get straight-faced humour at all (which is why I stay far away from The Onion). If you're going to leave it up to me to decide if something is supposed to be funny or not, I'm going to err on the side of "not" and probably take offence.
I'm going to say that the joke doesn't work because only a small subset of the people who see it are going to have any idea what the flying fuck it's about. Honestly, until reading your explanation I didn't even realize it was supposed to be a joke, and I know I'm not the only one who occasionally checks out The Onion without following any of the sort of 'entertainment journalism' referred to in this article. Without that background, it just comes off as someone at The Onion deciding to be an asshole on company time. In light of that, a lot of the outrage is perfectly understandable.
What I do think is overblown is the uproar over the particular word used. Yes, it is a gendered insult, but so is every other name for human genitalia, male or female. No one is being uniquely victimized by being called a '****' anymore than they are by the innumerable innumerable names for a penis which have come to be used in the same insulting capacity. '****' is only a "special" insult because certain people keep jumping through hoops to make it one, and if you really think its use is hurting people you'd be a lot better off trying to lift the taboo which gives it that power (this is the case with all 'bad words') than by trying to hide it away behind asterisks and wails of outrage (on a related note, I am acquainted with an author of erotic novels who is constantly bemoaning the emphasis which has recently been placed on '****' as a pejorative because it is her favorite term for female genitalia).
So, at the end of the day, is this better or worse than when The Onion ran that "Man Raped to Death by Bear" article? The answer is 'worse', but only because I like bear puns.
What I do think is overblown is the uproar over the particular word used. Yes, it is a gendered insult, but so is every other name for human genitalia, male or female. No one is being uniquely victimized by being called a '****' anymore than they are by the innumerable innumerable names for a penis which have come to be used in the same insulting capacity. '****' is only a "special" insult because certain people keep jumping through hoops to make it one, and if you really think its use is hurting people you'd be a lot better off trying to lift the taboo which gives it that power (this is the case with all 'bad words') than by trying to hide it away behind asterisks and wails of outrage (on a related note, I am acquainted with an author of erotic novels who is constantly bemoaning the emphasis which has recently been placed on '****' as a pejorative because it is her favorite term for female genitalia).
So, at the end of the day, is this better or worse than when The Onion ran that "Man Raped to Death by Bear" article? The answer is 'worse', but only because I like bear puns.
Time to bring one of my favorite Youtubers into this:
He basically says what I'd like to say on the topic. But hey, I'm Australian, swearing to random people is pretty common (at least where I live).
He basically says what I'd like to say on the topic. But hey, I'm Australian, swearing to random people is pretty common (at least where I live).
I guess the joke about the C word being cancer isnt appropriate here. well, that and I cant think of something clever.
I get what bob is saying, but even if its for humour, I dont think you should refer to a 9 year old on her biggest day (as of now) in her life that. As much as the onion likes ot joke around, I think they woul have been better off not bothering. I mean, I know the onion likes to be humourous but she's fucking 9.
I dont know, i agree. I think it was dumb to do, and would have been better off left unsaid.
I get what bob is saying, but even if its for humour, I dont think you should refer to a 9 year old on her biggest day (as of now) in her life that. As much as the onion likes ot joke around, I think they woul have been better off not bothering. I mean, I know the onion likes to be humourous but she's fucking 9.
I dont know, i agree. I think it was dumb to do, and would have been better off left unsaid.
Thanks for a breath of sanity on this one, Bob. Yes, the joke failed. It was badly delivered, badly aimed, and just bad. But no, it wasn't an attempt to attack the girl. I agree, it would have worked better if they'd done something like a fake opinion piece by a gossip columnist saying over the top snarky things, so everyone would have got who they were satirizing (See George Washington's column entitled "I Thought We'd Have Flying Slaves By Now").
That said, they did a proper apology, not one of those "We're sorry if anyone was stupid enough to be offended" apologies so popular today. The joke may have been far from classy, but the editors actions afterwards were.
That said, they did a proper apology, not one of those "We're sorry if anyone was stupid enough to be offended" apologies so popular today. The joke may have been far from classy, but the editors actions afterwards were.
I didn't realize the word was used so much in other countries. It's used in the U.S., but isn't exactly common.
First time I saw the onion, my dad just showed it to me and laughed at my confusion. "How is this news? Are the writers stupid?" Nah younger me, it was just me.
First time I saw the onion, my dad just showed it to me and laughed at my confusion. "How is this news? Are the writers stupid?" Nah younger me, it was just me.
Well to sound off for myself, I have lost respect for "The Onion" for backing down and issueing an apology. I'm firmly in the court of those who have been complaining about out of control political correctness here, and feel that anything PC needs to be abolished as it's an affront to free speech as a matter of general principle, especially when it comes to humor.
At the end of the day the point of "The Onion" and other sources like it is that nothing and noone is sacred, your supposed to talk at look at a lot of what they say/post and go "wow, I can't believe they said that" and chuckle because of how wrong it is
Whether or not this girl is 9 years old is irrelvent, she's a public person, and fair game for this kind of thing. What's more I think people complaining about this made it more of a big deal that it ever would have been if they decided to keep their mouthes shut and go after their 5 minutes of fame from liberal trolling. Sure, calling a 9 year old a **** to her face is wrong, but remember this is on a humor website/twitter feed which a 9 year old has no business accessing. Had nobody gone "wow, I can get five minutes of fame by complaining and donning a suit of liberal white knight armor" the odds of her ever even having expected this was said would be pretty much obselete. Anyone looking at "The Onion" enough to follow it's twitter also likewise understands the context.
I'll also be blunt, we've been here before, and truthfully this would never have happened if there wasn't a huge trend towards liberal trolling and it being "hip" to jump on stupid crap to make a platform and generate attention. If you start looking at the garbage thrown at some child celebrities over the years, including by sources that weren't joking and taking a "telling it as it is" attitude, you can see how stupid this really is. Briney Spears and Lindsey Lohan got a ton of this crap, and this includes at one point Britney having a recorded tantrum she threw back stage as a little girl broadcast. Perhaps even more relevently society has turned "Honey Boo Boo" into pretty much the punchline of a nationwide joke.
In short it's a non-issue, people are only talking about this because we have been too stupid not to give the people raising these kinds of complaints a platform.
At the end of the day the point of "The Onion" and other sources like it is that nothing and noone is sacred, your supposed to talk at look at a lot of what they say/post and go "wow, I can't believe they said that" and chuckle because of how wrong it is
Whether or not this girl is 9 years old is irrelvent, she's a public person, and fair game for this kind of thing. What's more I think people complaining about this made it more of a big deal that it ever would have been if they decided to keep their mouthes shut and go after their 5 minutes of fame from liberal trolling. Sure, calling a 9 year old a **** to her face is wrong, but remember this is on a humor website/twitter feed which a 9 year old has no business accessing. Had nobody gone "wow, I can get five minutes of fame by complaining and donning a suit of liberal white knight armor" the odds of her ever even having expected this was said would be pretty much obselete. Anyone looking at "The Onion" enough to follow it's twitter also likewise understands the context.
I'll also be blunt, we've been here before, and truthfully this would never have happened if there wasn't a huge trend towards liberal trolling and it being "hip" to jump on stupid crap to make a platform and generate attention. If you start looking at the garbage thrown at some child celebrities over the years, including by sources that weren't joking and taking a "telling it as it is" attitude, you can see how stupid this really is. Briney Spears and Lindsey Lohan got a ton of this crap, and this includes at one point Britney having a recorded tantrum she threw back stage as a little girl broadcast. Perhaps even more relevently society has turned "Honey Boo Boo" into pretty much the punchline of a nationwide joke.
In short it's a non-issue, people are only talking about this because we have been too stupid not to give the people raising these kinds of complaints a platform.
Does it honestly have any effect on you what so ever? Why do you care what some random shithead thinks about you or your family?Mr_Terrific said:
I'm glad the Onion retracted the tweet and apologized. They were not censored in any way; they realized the joke wasn't funny and had too little context to ever be funny. The outrage over the Onion apologizing is just mind-boggling. The tweet was offensive, people complained, and the Onion agreed and took the offending tweet down, because in hindsight it just sucked. Then there are people acting like we're behind the Great Firewall of China, but this was just a distasteful gaffe that should have been left to the sands of time. The c-word applied to a talented 9-year-old girl for no real reason is not comedy, not even in the name of satire. There was no set-up, no context, it was just... bad. And it was okay to take a step back and admit it. Kudos, Bob, for explaining why we find jokes funny and why the Onion tweet was not.
Moviebob:"Here's the thing: Yes, obviously, it is not okay to call a 9 year-old girl a c**t. 'Why' shouldn't have to be explained (it's a sexualized/gendered insult, reducing a person to their genitals and then shaming them for what said genitals are, this kid is nine freaking years old, etc.,). BUT - and I boldface because this is a big, big, BUT - while what The Onion did was in fact call her that word, they also didn't 'really' do so. It's a weird distinction, I'll grant, but this is what satire is made of."
If I poop in the middle of a public park and call it "art," would pooping on the grass be the only thing I'm doing; or, did I also not poop, because I am putting my artwork on display for the public to see, smell and, if they so wish, taste?
No one can make language a pattern of discrete symbols, tidied into their own distinctive roles for a predetermined context, and neither will certain words or actions always hold the same unique meanings for people, because people change. There will always be an element of uncertainty in human interactions, meaning that one could say or do the same thing over and over again and, on occasion, get a different response. In the case of The Onion, I believe it's safe to say they bombed, big time, and it would be extremely rare, though not impossible, for any other comedian to pull off that kind of joke and get a positive response. That someone certainly won't be me!
If I poop in the middle of a public park and call it "art," would pooping on the grass be the only thing I'm doing; or, did I also not poop, because I am putting my artwork on display for the public to see, smell and, if they so wish, taste?
No one can make language a pattern of discrete symbols, tidied into their own distinctive roles for a predetermined context, and neither will certain words or actions always hold the same unique meanings for people, because people change. There will always be an element of uncertainty in human interactions, meaning that one could say or do the same thing over and over again and, on occasion, get a different response. In the case of The Onion, I believe it's safe to say they bombed, big time, and it would be extremely rare, though not impossible, for any other comedian to pull off that kind of joke and get a positive response. That someone certainly won't be me!
This right here. Joke fails on that fact alone. Also, someone mentioned that kids call each other cunts all the time. Yeah, KIDS call each other that. Grown adults don't usually call a kid that.Ickabod said:
Putting aside right vs. wrong, these stories are the reason I got rid of my Twitter. Hardly any good comes from it, and it just seems to get people into trouble needlessly.
I always wondered why it was such a big deal over in America? Don't get me wrong, if a comedian called a 9 year old a **** here in England some people might get pissed but chances are it would be forgotten about by the next day.
Basically this, i'll just post the vid, makes it easier on everyone.
Ickabod said:
Basically this, i'll just post the vid, makes it easier on everyone.
Though being only a mild Onion fan, I easily fall into the Onion Defense camp. Here's why:
Has anybody ever read "Our Dumb World"? It's basically an atlas, but written by The Onion.
I'd submit that almost anything from the chapter on Africa is twenty times more offensive than this; it makes fun of the tyranny, starvation, economic disparity, rape, and bloody genocide that plagues many of those countries by delivering true information and statistics in the most blunt or derisive way possible. It doesn't need the obligatory "most offensive word we can get away with that isn't the N-word!!!" to make fun of those unfortunate children; it's terribly tragic, offensive, and hilarious all at once. It works because of The Onion's signature style, in which it isn't the subject itself that is the butt of the joke, but the apathy and ignorance of our own culture. These are the guys who have headlines like "New Study Suggests Depression Hits Losers Hardest" or "Government To Increase Surveillance Of Paranoid Schizophrenics"
Anybody I've seen upset by this either seems to have zero familiarity with The Onion, or just doesn't comprehend that style of humor. Now I'm not blaming 'em, but there are a lot of those people... even on this thread... even after you (Bob) explained it very well in the article... I think they're Capricorns.
This style of humor is specifically designed to make you laugh, be shocked and mad at yourself (maybe embarrassed, maybe even offended) for laughing, then think about why you reacted that way. That's the exact reaction I had when I saw this **** joke, and it all happened in a matter of seconds. I didn't think much of it beyond that. These Capricorns often don't make it past the second step though; they get to the offended part (not realizing that it was intended and also there's more) and just stay there, then rant on the internet about how they never laughed in the first place and somebody else should be blamed for their own taking offense at something or their not getting it.
I've heard the "if you have to explain it, it was a bad joke" rebuttal many times.... and I think it's retarded. I got the joke immediately and I'm pretty dumb.
Has anybody ever read "Our Dumb World"? It's basically an atlas, but written by The Onion.
I'd submit that almost anything from the chapter on Africa is twenty times more offensive than this; it makes fun of the tyranny, starvation, economic disparity, rape, and bloody genocide that plagues many of those countries by delivering true information and statistics in the most blunt or derisive way possible. It doesn't need the obligatory "most offensive word we can get away with that isn't the N-word!!!" to make fun of those unfortunate children; it's terribly tragic, offensive, and hilarious all at once. It works because of The Onion's signature style, in which it isn't the subject itself that is the butt of the joke, but the apathy and ignorance of our own culture. These are the guys who have headlines like "New Study Suggests Depression Hits Losers Hardest" or "Government To Increase Surveillance Of Paranoid Schizophrenics"
Anybody I've seen upset by this either seems to have zero familiarity with The Onion, or just doesn't comprehend that style of humor. Now I'm not blaming 'em, but there are a lot of those people... even on this thread... even after you (Bob) explained it very well in the article... I think they're Capricorns.
This style of humor is specifically designed to make you laugh, be shocked and mad at yourself (maybe embarrassed, maybe even offended) for laughing, then think about why you reacted that way. That's the exact reaction I had when I saw this **** joke, and it all happened in a matter of seconds. I didn't think much of it beyond that. These Capricorns often don't make it past the second step though; they get to the offended part (not realizing that it was intended and also there's more) and just stay there, then rant on the internet about how they never laughed in the first place and somebody else should be blamed for their own taking offense at something or their not getting it.
I've heard the "if you have to explain it, it was a bad joke" rebuttal many times.... and I think it's retarded. I got the joke immediately and I'm pretty dumb.
Bob, I agree with what you said in the 5th paragraph - The Onion have a right to make that joke, and the people who are very angry have a right to be angry. Freedom of speech also implies freedom of criticism. By all means, they can make as tasteless and horrible a joke as they want. Go for it. But others ALSO have a right to criticism them and hate them and shout at them for making that joke.
I see a lot of free speech advocates cry that their free speech is under assault when someone criticizes them. Don't they understand the hypocrisy? "I have the freedom to say whatever horrendous thing I want, but you don't have the freedom to ever dare express objections to it". That's just ludicrous. Free Speech means Free Speech - it means I'm free to criticize jokes I don't like!
It's really, really simple. You have a right to say what you want. You don't have a right to be liked for saying it.
I see a lot of free speech advocates cry that their free speech is under assault when someone criticizes them. Don't they understand the hypocrisy? "I have the freedom to say whatever horrendous thing I want, but you don't have the freedom to ever dare express objections to it". That's just ludicrous. Free Speech means Free Speech - it means I'm free to criticize jokes I don't like!
It's really, really simple. You have a right to say what you want. You don't have a right to be liked for saying it.