they are a retailer and just like all retailers they have a requirement to ensure that the product is fit for purpose, if its not then its a breach of most consumer laws to sell itzumbledum said:valve is a developer publisher and distributor. i feel asking them to enforce, police and curate the market is simply putting too much in one place. i see the opportunity for 3rd parties to offer these filters better and fairer than they can.
you are both right and wrong, i mean if the game doesnt work because is not compatible with newer operating systems, i think its a bit trickier, is like saying "hey i bought this N64 cartrige and it doesnt work on my WiiU!"Anthony Corrigan said:they are a retailer and just like all retailers they have a requirement to ensure that the product is fit for purpose, if its not then its a breach of most consumer laws to sell itzumbledum said:valve is a developer publisher and distributor. i feel asking them to enforce, police and curate the market is simply putting too much in one place. i see the opportunity for 3rd parties to offer these filters better and fairer than they can.
There is a huge difference between selling a game cartridge marked as N64 and selling a game on steam and it not working. If an uneducated person walks into Gametraders and says "will this cartridge work in my PS3 and they say yes then they would be in breach of the Australian Consumer Laws as the product is not fit for purpose. On steam unless SPECIFICALLY marked as requiring a specific system the assumption that any normal customer can make is that it will work for any current system. It would be no different from a store putting PS1, PS2 and PS3 games in the same cases and then selling them from the same box with no identifying that they only work on this that or the other system.NuclearKangaroo said:you are both right and wrong, i mean if the game doesnt work because is not compatible with newer operating systems, i think its a bit trickier, is like saying "hey i bought this N64 cartrige and it doesnt work on my WiiU!"Anthony Corrigan said:they are a retailer and just like all retailers they have a requirement to ensure that the product is fit for purpose, if its not then its a breach of most consumer laws to sell itzumbledum said:valve is a developer publisher and distributor. i feel asking them to enforce, police and curate the market is simply putting too much in one place. i see the opportunity for 3rd parties to offer these filters better and fairer than they can.
they should put up a warning atleast
BeerTent said:I'm just going to put this here.
http://imageshack.com/a/img845/4503/4aes.png[/umg][/spoiler]
This was taken from the vampire masquerade page. If it doesn't say an OS is supported, then the least you can assume is that it's not going to work out of the box. It MAY work if you use compatibility options within the OS, and you MAY need to look to a 3rd party solution.
The warning's there, you just need something to gripe about, it seems. This is the exact same as buying this game for linux and going "The hell, it doesn't work without Microsoft libraries? There needs to be a warning!! Big red letters!"[/QUOTE]
If it was on the microsoft shelf then yes sure it should. If it was on the linux shelf then no you should know it wont work
Anthony Corrigan said:BeerTent said:I'm just going to put this here.
http://imageshack.com/a/img845/4503/4aes.png[/umg][/spoiler]
This was taken from the vampire masquerade page. If it doesn't say an OS is supported, then the least you can assume is that it's not going to work out of the box. It MAY work if you use compatibility options within the OS, and you MAY need to look to a 3rd party solution.
The warning's there, you just need something to gripe about, it seems. This is the exact same as buying this game for linux and going "The hell, it doesn't work without Microsoft libraries? There needs to be a warning!! Big red letters!"[/QUOTE]
If it was on the microsoft shelf then yes sure it should. If it was on the linux shelf then no you should know it wont work[/quote]I have no idea what you just tried to communicate.
Are you saying that every MS Operating system is the exact same? that that designator behind "Windows" doesn't even matter beyond a minor shell change? While I'll agree that's a lot of libraries and data ported over from one MS OS to the other, these are still very completely different operating systems in their own regard. Windows 2000 has libraries that XP does not, and vice versa. Windows Vista had things that 7 did not, again, vice versa. And 8? Hoooo boy, 8 is the beginning of the end. 9 Is going to have nothing in common with 7 and earlier.
Again, this game is over 7 years old. They've no reason to do the pointless amount of work to port this sucker to another OS, and port over the missing libraries. This was End of Life years ago. Done like dinner! That's why we have compatibility modes from MS. If they don't work, then consider yourself lucky that someone has dedicated the amount of time it took to port this sucker over. Trust me, it's not click click done simple.
BeerTent said:Anthony Corrigan said:BeerTent said:I'm just going to put this here.
http://imageshack.com/a/img845/4503/4aes.png[/umg][/spoiler]
This was taken from the vampire masquerade page. If it doesn't say an OS is supported, then the least you can assume is that it's not going to work out of the box. It MAY work if you use compatibility options within the OS, and you MAY need to look to a 3rd party solution.
The warning's there, you just need something to gripe about, it seems. This is the exact same as buying this game for linux and going "The hell, it doesn't work without Microsoft libraries? There needs to be a warning!! Big red letters!"[/QUOTE]
If it was on the microsoft shelf then yes sure it should. If it was on the linux shelf then no you should know it wont work[/quote]I have no idea what you just tried to communicate.
Are you saying that every MS Operating system is the exact same? that that designator behind "Windows" doesn't even matter beyond a minor shell change? While I'll agree that's a lot of libraries and data ported over from one MS OS to the other, these are still very completely different operating systems in their own regard. Windows 2000 has libraries that XP does not, and vice versa. Windows Vista had things that 7 did not, again, vice versa. And 8? Hoooo boy, 8 is the beginning of the end. 9 Is going to have nothing in common with 7 and earlier.
Again, this game is over 7 years old. They've no reason to do the pointless amount of work to port this sucker to another OS, and port over the missing libraries. This was End of Life years ago. Done like dinner! That's why we have compatibility modes from MS. If they don't work, then consider yourself lucky that someone has dedicated the amount of time it took to port this sucker over. Trust me, it's not click click done simple.[/quote]
If the games are all mixed in together then YES it needs to be explicitly said clearly that this game will not work on the current systems, no if buts or maybes. Not buried in the system requirements, written right up front where it cant be missed and not written in such a way that its confusing as to whether that means when the game originally came out these were the systems around, clearly marked THIS WILL NOT WORK WITH WINDOWS 7+8 or THIS WILL NOT WORK WITH WINDOWS 8 BUT WILL WORK ON 7 or something like that
well, yeah like i said, it needs some sort of warningAnthony Corrigan said:There is a huge difference between selling a game cartridge marked as N64 and selling a game on steam and it not working. If an uneducated person walks into Gametraders and says "will this cartridge work in my PS3 and they say yes then they would be in breach of the Australian Consumer Laws as the product is not fit for purpose. On steam unless SPECIFICALLY marked as requiring a specific system the assumption that any normal customer can make is that it will work for any current system. It would be no different from a store putting PS1, PS2 and PS3 games in the same cases and then selling them from the same box with no identifying that they only work on this that or the other system.NuclearKangaroo said:you are both right and wrong, i mean if the game doesnt work because is not compatible with newer operating systems, i think its a bit trickier, is like saying "hey i bought this N64 cartrige and it doesnt work on my WiiU!"Anthony Corrigan said:they are a retailer and just like all retailers they have a requirement to ensure that the product is fit for purpose, if its not then its a breach of most consumer laws to sell itzumbledum said:valve is a developer publisher and distributor. i feel asking them to enforce, police and curate the market is simply putting too much in one place. i see the opportunity for 3rd parties to offer these filters better and fairer than they can.
they should put up a warning atleast
Anthony Corrigan said:BeerTent said:Anthony Corrigan said:BeerTent said:I'm just going to put this here.
http://imageshack.com/a/img845/4503/4aes.png[/umg][/spoiler]
This was taken from the vampire masquerade page. If it doesn't say an OS is supported, then the least you can assume is that it's not going to work out of the box. It MAY work if you use compatibility options within the OS, and you MAY need to look to a 3rd party solution.
The warning's there, you just need something to gripe about, it seems. This is the exact same as buying this game for linux and going "The hell, it doesn't work without Microsoft libraries? There needs to be a warning!! Big red letters!"[/QUOTE]
If it was on the microsoft shelf then yes sure it should. If it was on the linux shelf then no you should know it wont work[/quote]I have no idea what you just tried to communicate.
Are you saying that every MS Operating system is the exact same? that that designator behind "Windows" doesn't even matter beyond a minor shell change? While I'll agree that's a lot of libraries and data ported over from one MS OS to the other, these are still very completely different operating systems in their own regard. Windows 2000 has libraries that XP does not, and vice versa. Windows Vista had things that 7 did not, again, vice versa. And 8? Hoooo boy, 8 is the beginning of the end. 9 Is going to have nothing in common with 7 and earlier.
Again, this game is over 7 years old. They've no reason to do the pointless amount of work to port this sucker to another OS, and port over the missing libraries. This was End of Life years ago. Done like dinner! That's why we have compatibility modes from MS. If they don't work, then consider yourself lucky that someone has dedicated the amount of time it took to port this sucker over. Trust me, it's not click click done simple.[/quote]
If the games are all mixed in together then YES it needs to be explicitly said clearly that this game will not work on the current systems, no if buts or maybes. Not buried in the system requirements, written right up front where it cant be missed and not written in such a way that its confusing as to whether that means when the game originally came out these were the systems around, clearly marked THIS WILL NOT WORK WITH WINDOWS 7+8 or THIS WILL NOT WORK WITH WINDOWS 8 BUT WILL WORK ON 7 or something like that[/quote]
It's not hidden or buried at all. When you buy a piece of software, don't you at the very minimally least check if it'll actually run on your system? This is why we have the system requirements at the bottom of each product's page. If something requires 16GB of Ram, and you have 4GB, it's not the developer's fault. It's yours. If you're unsure, ask someone. There's tonnes of resources online too.
Part of having a PC means that you at least know something about it. It's not everyone else's job to coddle you because you can't be bothered to check the absolute basics. Did you know that tea is served hot too? Did you also know that according to the terms and conditions YOU agreed to on Steam, there's no refunds permitted? I think with that tid-bit of knowledge, you'd go through and figure if the purchase is right for you, instead of pulling a "Shut up and take my money!" 5 seconds after watching those hollow trailer videos.
BeerTent said:Anthony Corrigan said:BeerTent said:Anthony Corrigan said:BeerTent said:I'm just going to put this here.
http://imageshack.com/a/img845/4503/4aes.png[/umg][/spoiler]
This was taken from the vampire masquerade page. If it doesn't say an OS is supported, then the least you can assume is that it's not going to work out of the box. It MAY work if you use compatibility options within the OS, and you MAY need to look to a 3rd party solution.
The warning's there, you just need something to gripe about, it seems. This is the exact same as buying this game for linux and going "The hell, it doesn't work without Microsoft libraries? There needs to be a warning!! Big red letters!"[/QUOTE]
If it was on the microsoft shelf then yes sure it should. If it was on the linux shelf then no you should know it wont work[/quote]I have no idea what you just tried to communicate.
Are you saying that every MS Operating system is the exact same? that that designator behind "Windows" doesn't even matter beyond a minor shell change? While I'll agree that's a lot of libraries and data ported over from one MS OS to the other, these are still very completely different operating systems in their own regard. Windows 2000 has libraries that XP does not, and vice versa. Windows Vista had things that 7 did not, again, vice versa. And 8? Hoooo boy, 8 is the beginning of the end. 9 Is going to have nothing in common with 7 and earlier.
Again, this game is over 7 years old. They've no reason to do the pointless amount of work to port this sucker to another OS, and port over the missing libraries. This was End of Life years ago. Done like dinner! That's why we have compatibility modes from MS. If they don't work, then consider yourself lucky that someone has dedicated the amount of time it took to port this sucker over. Trust me, it's not click click done simple.[/quote]
If the games are all mixed in together then YES it needs to be explicitly said clearly that this game will not work on the current systems, no if buts or maybes. Not buried in the system requirements, written right up front where it cant be missed and not written in such a way that its confusing as to whether that means when the game originally came out these were the systems around, clearly marked THIS WILL NOT WORK WITH WINDOWS 7+8 or THIS WILL NOT WORK WITH WINDOWS 8 BUT WILL WORK ON 7 or something like that[/quote]
It's not hidden or buried at all. When you buy a piece of software, don't you at the very minimally least check if it'll actually run on your system? This is why we have the system requirements at the bottom of each product's page. If something requires 16GB of Ram, and you have 4GB, it's not the developer's fault. It's yours. If you're unsure, ask someone. There's tonnes of resources online too.
Part of having a PC means that you at least know something about it. It's not everyone else's job to coddle you because you can't be bothered to check the absolute basics. Did you know that tea is served hot too? Did you also know that according to the terms and conditions YOU agreed to on Steam, there's no refunds permitted? I think with that tid-bit of knowledge, you'd go through and figure if the purchase is right for you, instead of pulling a "Shut up and take my money!" 5 seconds after watching those hollow trailer videos.[/quote]
Yep absolutely right they are MINIMUM requirements so I glance at them to make sure my system is ABOVE that, that my RAM is higher than that, that I have a newer video card etc. The operating system needs to be explicitly stated, THIS WILL NOT WORK ON WINDOWS 7, otherwise people rightly will assume that the minimum system requirements list is a Minimum of Vista not MUST BE ON VISTA
Its the legal responsibility of a retailer in every country EXCEPT the US (where companies rule people rather than the other way around) to ensure that the products they are selling are fit for purpose, work as advertised and aren't broken. Does this mean that they have to individuality test every light bulb? No it means they must know that these light bulbs generally work and that if one is broken or not fit for the purpose that the customer states to the sales rep, that the sales rep states to the customer, that the store advertises or that the company advertises then the customer is entitled to a refund. For games this means that steam should be ensuring they work on MOST systems and if they don't providing a refund and if known stating this upfront and\or removing it from sale. This is not time dependent, if the game has a game breaking bug in the last 5 min then you can demand a refundduwenbasden said:Can/should digital download distributers ensure their games work (patch as required)?
No/No. It is not the retailer's job to determine if a product works or not. The retailer can however pull products off the shelf if it does not work as intended.
That being said, I'd like to see a refund policy in place, somewhere along the line of
- 30 min playtime or 3 days from purchase for 1st time buy only.
- if you go offline all items in library are no longer refundable.