Can Zombies exist or not?

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Tucker154

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chaos order said:
Demented Teddy said:
Zombies can not exist.
Once you die your brain stops working, therefore, there is nothing to stimulate your muscles to move.
well ut thinking of the zombie in the literal sense, what about 28 days later where a disease changes people into a angry zombies biters
The movie undead flesh eating zombies,highly unlikely,so I agree with teddy on that.But if you want to consider 28 days later infected as "zombies",then yes.The zombies in that movie is just simply has a virus that fills them with a rage,therefore the rage virus can exist because there are more viruses durment in our bodies,and elsewhere probably.
 

StrangerQ

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well i personally consider "dark arts" as possible source of zombies as then they would be only puppets for someone....
i have readed random set of books about magic and its forms ... those books might be BS but i dont care... at least i got something to give explanation if science happens to fail (id still not be religious about it tho)

Continuity said:
Traditional "undead" zombies cannot exist because they are animated by necromancy which is a fictional magic.
Can you actually prove that it is fiction? [devilish grin]
 

goldenheart323

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Oct 9, 2009
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ZombieDroid said:
Hey,

In social studies we have to do a dialectical essay on a topic with opposing sides. Naturally, I chose to write about 'Zombies: Is it possible for them to exist, or not?' I found alot of information about how zombies can, scientifically, exist, but none about how, scientifically, they cannot exist. Does anyone know any good websites, links or ideas? I REAAAAALLLY need help :)
Really? You found lots of scientific evidence FOR their possible existence? If you have links to any of that, please share. Sounds interesting, & I'm sure I'd learn something since everything I've ever learned tells me zombies are impossible. Muscles need oxygen & food & the waste products removed, as well as properly coordinated impulses from the brain in order to walk or attack. All that goes away after death. Even if only the brain is dead, how is a virus/bacteria going to know what signals to give the muscles? How's it going to know how to interpret the info coming from the eyes & inner ear for balance, etc.? Without death, then it's not a zombie.

If you manage to find enough info for both sides & can do the paper, please post it. I'm sure it'd be interesting.

On a fictional side note: I've always wondered why zombies don't attack each other. I know that's necessary for the hordes to form and to make the movies more interesting, but other than that I don't get it.
 

Tharwen

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I think the closest we could get is a drug that makes people super-violent. The dead returning is pretty unlikely, though.
 

the December King

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Personally, I differentiate between a zombie, and a ghoul.

To me, a zombie is an undead or a corpse given ambulatory powers. Often they are near mindless or completely mindless. They usually do not breathe, but might make verbalizations, however this is usually negligible. They often require consumption, but not sustenance per se. Usually they exhibit signs of progressive and uninterrupted decomposition, or at least they do after time passing, comparable to a corpse.

A ghoul, on the other hand, is a result of infection or at the very least a more powerfull and motivating power than simply reanimation, although again these are loose interpretations. A ghoul will exhibit emotion, but on a very primitive level, like rage, or confusion. Because most often a ghoul is not strictly 'dead', it retains ambulatory efficiency, and thus moves faster and can perform more coordinated exercises. Respiration is usually observed, as are various animalistic calls and sounds. Cannibalism is an act of sustenance. Often, if brought on by a viral infection, the act of infecting others works in tandem with the cannibalism- if prey is caught, it is eaten, but if it escapes wounded, it passes on the infection.

Again, this is just how I break it down in my head. As a D@D player, it's like the zombie is the standard D@D zombie, an ambulatory corpse, and the ghoul (to varying degrees) represents a pinnacle of hollywood fare, with degrees between them for most movies.

As to the reality of the situation, corpses can be made to spasm with electricity. If it were sustained for a purpose, and made to effect ambulation for some purpose like a temporary robot made of flesh, by my definition that could be a zombie, if sustained for a purpose. An argument against would be an argument of semantics and definitions, I guess.

Oh my! I didn't mean to go off on such a tear. Just got caught up in the subject!
 

TheBlackWaterMan

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Well I guss you could raise a person or use Terapy to make them act like one like if they had sharp teeth or metal teeth they could eat your brains or something.
 

Sigel

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The rational side of me clearly states that zombies can not/will not ever exist.
The crazy little voice inside my head says to stock on ammo and guns cause they might.
 

Kris015

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Feb 21, 2009
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Arawn.Chernobog said:
Kiefer13 said:
Zombies as in the "classic" undead flesh-eating shamblers? No.

Zombies as in humans infected with some kind of virus that makes them hyper-aggressive? I don't see why not.
/thread
/thread seconded
 

Kris015

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Mr Smile said:
EBHughsThe1st said:
Why the heck are we talking about the science of zombies?
Because we are bored and curious
http://www.explosm.net/comics/2043/ That's what happens to curious people (and cats)!

EDIT: Sorry for double post.
 

Mantonio

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There's a Cracked article on it I believe.

Also, there's a type of mushroom that infects ant brains, forcing them to climb as high as they can and hold on. The mushroom then bursts through its skull, killing the ant and spreading spores everywhere.

That kinda counts, right?
 

direkiller

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Corvuus said:
Are you talking about how it couldn't happen at ALL or couldn't happen long term?

---

Ideas off the top of my head:

1. Rigor Mortis.

Sure, you could have zombies... their limbs just don't work. I am also reminded about the chinese vampires (which are like life-draining HOPPING with stiff legs zombies... see to believe).

2. Analysis of virus survivability/propagation.

There are many crazy diseases (brain eating bacteria anyone?) out there but they have such a high 'death' rate/low transmission, that the disease pretty much wipes itself out. If the zombies ONLY spread via bite contamination (and not some airborne pathogen that re-animates all dead corpses/hell is full so all dead turn into zombies) then the zombie plague will (due to rigor mortis, decay, effective quarantine) simply die out.

3. There could be analysis of the disease/infection and how it affects living/dead people. Most biological things have... for ease of conversation... a "sweet spot". They like a certain pH, environment, 'food', etc with some range of 'tolerance'. Sure, your disease could affect someone's mind when they are alive (producing dementia, 'rage' virus movie type scenario, reavers from firefly), but it may not work when they are dead because of environment changes. Likewise, it does nothing to a person when they are alive but when they die, the airborne pathogen can 'grow'/take over the dead person.

4. Our body reacts in various ways due to injuries. Most nervous system damage to humans is caused by our own body reacting to external damage/inflammation. (the body 'eats itself'). A person dying in a traumatic way (while preserving the head/zombie brain) can be an ineffective zombie due to nervous system damage, etc. Same as rigor mortis I guess.

In the end, I think you can only show why zombies wouldn't last long term. I mean, technically, someone could claim the "dead space" route where there is an alien 'pathogen' that uses the dead corpse as biological building blocks to create a new entity. There is at least 1 species I know of on earth who does this (i forget the name, but the 'infection' web author guy (who i don't care for that much) talks about it. At any rate, if anything is 'possible', then sure, a virus that uses dead bodies to create a new entity (in this case zombies) is possible. Oh wait, I think I just described Resident Evil's virus ;P.

Corvuus
P.S. hard to prove that zombies are 100% impossible in all situations. Can prove that they are ineffective/hampered unless it is a really crazy RE/deadspace type. ;P
Rigor Mortis fades off bodys after about 36hours so points 1,2 are sorta dead
 

Teh Magic Man

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so in summary:

L4D and 28 days latter could happen, if a parasite evolved into some kinda super bug that takes away survival instincts and rationality and replaces it with PURE UNCONTROLLABLE RAGE!!! caps being defiantly necessary in this case. scary since it means running, slightly coordinated zombies, but the idea of them attacking living humans and working together in a giant mob is improbable as they would likely attack each other.

rigor motis and brain damage mean undead zombies are not possible or at least not much of a long term threat. they would rot away before society collapesed entirly, and be easy to run from. so lets all agree, for all intensive purposes, the living dead are NOT a threat.

nanobots.... really people?

the important thing to remember is that should zombies exist, at best they will only be as strong as the infected was in "life". in other words, the adverage american zombie would be a slow, waddling monstrosity that could be easy outwalked by anyone who puts the bare minimum into being healthy. so no im not super terrified by the zombies themselves, but the aftermath might be kinda scary should society crumble.

anyways good luck with the report. if you are still stuck with the other side just talk about rigor mortis and brain damage.
 

Mantonio

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Teh Magic Man said:
so in summary:

L4D and 28 days latter could happen, if a parasite evolved into some kinda super bug that takes away survival instincts and rationality and replaces it with PURE UNCONTROLLABLE RAGE!!! caps being defiantly necessary in this case. scary since it means running, slightly coordinated zombies, but the idea of them attacking living humans and working together in a giant mob is improbable as they would likely attack each other.

rigor motis and brain damage mean undead zombies are not possible or at least not much of a long term threat. they would rot away before society collapesed entirly, and be easy to run from. so lets all agree, for all intensive purposes, the living dead are NOT a threat.

nanobots.... really people?

the important thing to remember is that should zombies exist, at best they will only be as strong as the infected was in "life". in other words, the adverage american zombie would be a slow, waddling monstrosity that could be easy outwalked by anyone who puts the bare minimum into being healthy. so no im not super terrified by the zombies themselves, but the aftermath might be kinda scary should society crumble.

anyways good luck with the report. if you are still stuck with the other side just talk about rigor mortis and brain damage.
Except that they would not feel pain, or tire. That bit's important.
 

Nikajo

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Feb 6, 2009
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If a body has started rotting the nervous system will have degraded, they won't be able to produce the molecules needed for cellular signalling (cAMP, cGMP, ATP, GTP the list goes on and fucking on) which means that nothing will make the limbs move short of magic. And the clotted blood will prevent any movement anyway - ever heard of rigor mortis? (I think that's how you spell it). It's basically when a dead body becomes stiff a little while after it has died completely.

The closest thing to a zombie would be rabies infection but that takes awhile for onset and the person will die naturally/eventually anyway so they are not a "true" zombie in that sense. They also don't necessarily become aggressive but more often than not they do.

There are probably many other reasons aswell but the ones I've given and some of the others in this thread are more than enough proof. If you need me to find scientific journals/textbooks that show this kind of information I'll gladly point you in the right direction.
 

Master_Corruptor

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...Naturally, I chose to write about 'Zombies: Is it possible for them to exist, or not?

- I present to you the well hidden virus known as ''Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game''
If that isn't good enough proof of zombie production then i don't know...
 

Plurralbles

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easy: The parasite, bacteria, virus doesn't exist yet/ can't affect higher lifeforms than a bug.

They theoretically can exist(only based on your defnition of a zombie, as in the voodoo zombie can't but the infected in 28 days later could be possible)
 

Corvuus

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direkiller:

I don't see how rigor mortis length of time matters.

Short version: During rigor mortis, muscles are all locked in 'non-relaxed' position. So the zombies can't shamble towards you, use arms to grab you, etc. Just 'dead stiff'.

Rigor mortis only lasts so long and after it is over, the muscles are no longer locked into position and the muscles are relaxed. At this point (3 days, depending on temperature, etc. right?) decay has set in and the muscles are already dissolving/weakened. I have no real bio background so who knows about ions, ATP/energy, etc. as well. If, somehow, the zombies regenerated this (Resident evil/dead space, whatever) then muscle atrophy probably doesn't matter and neither did rigor mortis.

In most cases, the zombie still wouldn't be effective before or after rigor mortis and even if the zombie was able to move after rigor mortis (3 days of waiting for the body to get up and eat you?!) then anyone caught deserves to be eaten by a slow moving zombie.

In Xombie (and i think other media... even sluggy freelance), undead have ways of regenerating/maintaining their bodies to combat rigor mortis/decay. Probably along the vein of voodoo where eating your enemy gives you their power (district 9 anyone?). Either way, a 'normal' standard undead zombie shouldn't be a long term threat (unless they all start moon walking).

Corvuus