Cancer will always be with us, according to more recent research

[Mr.Savage]

You've spent pages describing a vast conspiracy, and then a chunky hydrocephalic lady in a Youtube video convinced you otherwise? Just... stop. Take your Vit C, don't have children, and stop preaching.

Again, conspiracy is a misnomer. I's say economic inertia is a better way to describe it.

Not really a sermon, either. Merely pointing out that independent researchers have made some fascinating discoveries over the years, which have been ignored.



I'm not surprised at the hostility toward the idea of alternative solutions for cancer. Indeed; it is evidently cathartic for everyone to denounce such material in unison while nodding to each other. (#Groupthink)

The hatred of Vitamins and dietary supplements in general is also the height of fashion these days, so ten points for Gryffindor there, as well.

 

[Mr.Savage]

Call it whatever you want, in the same way you call your magical belief system "medicine" or "science". Call it raspberry cupcakes for all that I care. Just don't have children, and stop preaching.

The nomenclature stands.

As for my siring offspring, you needn't worry; a motorcycle accident in 2003 effectively put an end to such possibilities. It was a rather extreme way to secure a vasectomy, but better me than you. right?

 

[Mr.Savage]

I can't speak for anyone else, but once you started to tell people to brew their own DMSO and fight cancer with Vitamins

I never suggested anyone brew DMSO (which is quite impossible unless one has access to a great deal of plant cellulose), or to fight cancer with Vitamins.

I think it might just be what you deserve.

I deserved my motorcycle accident for appreciating Vitamins?

That's a hair's breadth away from a personal attack. I know it's the internet, but things like that are never called for.

 

[Therumancer]

snip

Parkinson's Law provides a useful explanation:

The First Corollary:

"In only the rarest of circumstances can an organization succeed if the fulfillment of a singular assigned mission means an end to the purpose which created it. If not provided with a subsequent mission, the organization will actually impede the goal(s) for which it owes its very existence."


snip

Meh, this does look very much like an ad hoc explanation at best, not suited to make any useful prediction about what to expect from an organization. You could say the exact same thing about literally every single interest group or field which does not exclusively rely on unpaid work and is meant to solve any sort of problem. Just a few examples: the police, WHO, any kind of politcal activism, environmentalism... just to name a few, but the list is endless.

That's part of the problem throughout society though, especially when it comes to PACs. Groups like the NAACP and guys like Al Sharpton need for there to be racial controversy in order to thrive and be relevant and important, there are arguments that the whole "Black Lives Matter" thing is in part a way of keeping racial tensions which had died down, enflamed, because without it too many important people cease to be important. When you live your life for a cause, what happens when the war is effectively over and it's all about assimilation? Even Martin Luthor King Jr. said that was going to be the hard part.

That's just an example and one argument that has been made (I am NOT going to derail the thread by debating that point here, since really it's just an example where this accusation has been used). The bottom line is your right, the same logic can be applied to a lot of things, and when it is, a lot of conflicts start to make more sense.

 

[ScaredIndie]

Wasn't DSMO the ointment believed to be involved in The whole Poison Blood fiasco?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Ramirez

Pretty sure that isn't going to improve your health.

More broadly medical conspiracies are incredibly damaging and can cause people to die from things that are otherwise treatable. There is little difference between what is being claimed here and the nutters who claim vaccines cause autism. I'm pretty sure this is the exact reason OP is seeing vitriol.

 

[Mr.Savage]

"Neither DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) nor DMSO2 (dimethyl sulfone) is especially dangerous. But while reading up on the subject a Livermore scientist came across a related chemical, dimethyl sulfate (DMSO4). DMSO4 is a powerful poison gas, and it can cause nearly every symptom suffered by the Riverside ER staff."

So essentially, results not typical. For what it's worth, the M.D. who first used DMSO clinically in 1964, Dr. Stanley Jacob, would add one half teaspoon of DMSO to a small glass of orange juice every morning before breakfast.

He recently passed away at the age of 91 in Jan, 2015.

So for 50 straight years, Dr. Jacob tested DMSO on himself with no ill effects. What gives?

 

[Kanedias]

"Neither DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) nor DMSO2 (dimethyl sulfone) is especially dangerous. But while reading up on the subject a Livermore scientist came across a related chemical, dimethyl sulfate (DMSO4). DMSO4 is a powerful poison gas, and it can cause nearly every symptom suffered by the Riverside ER staff."

So essentially, results not typical. For what it's worth, the M.D. who first used DMSO clinically in 1964, Dr. Stanley Jacob, would add one half teaspoon of DMSO to a small glass of orange juice every morning before breakfast.

He recently passed away at the age of 91 in Jan, 2015.

So for 50 straight years, Dr. Jacob tested DMSO on himself with no ill effects. What gives?

By your logic, red wine must be magic!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/107-year-old-put-long-7309246

You too can have a post hoc fallacy, and you! And you! Everyone gets a post hoc fallacy!

 

[Mr.Savage]

By your logic, red wine must be magic!

Well not magic, but certainly useful; https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-resveratrol-may-fight-aging

I admit; I take a Resveratrol supplement along with all those useless Vitamins. I think I'll live to be 120. *Fingers crossed*

 

[Superbeast]

"Neither DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) nor DMSO2 (dimethyl sulfone) is especially dangerous. But while reading up on the subject a Livermore scientist came across a related chemical, dimethyl sulfate (DMSO4). DMSO4 is a powerful poison gas, and it can cause nearly every symptom suffered by the Riverside ER staff."

So essentially, results not typical. For what it's worth, the M.D. who first used DMSO clinically in 1964, Dr. Stanley Jacob, would add one half teaspoon of DMSO to a small glass of orange juice every morning before breakfast.

He recently passed away at the age of 91 in Jan, 2015.

So for 50 straight years, Dr. Jacob tested DMSO on himself with no ill effects. What gives?

And people smoke all their lives without ill effects, so clearly smoking is harmless.

"A pensioner, Winnie Langley, who smoked for more than 95 years and only gave up because she could no longer see the end of a match, has died a month short of her 103rd birthday."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7941676/Britains-oldest-smoker-dies-after-puffing-on-cigarettes-for-95-years.html

"A Cambodian tiger hunter said to be the world's oldest man has died at the age of 122, according to his relatives.

Sek Yi, who was also a martial arts expert, attributed his longevity and that of his 108-year-old wife Long Ouk, to smoking and the power of prayer."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-200361/Smoking-secrets-oldest-man.html

 

[Mr.Savage]

And people smoke all their lives without ill effects, so clearly smoking is harmless.

I appreciate your logic, but that's a rather desperate comparison, chemically speaking.

Smoking generates large amounts of free radicals, which rob electrons. Couple that with the addition of numerous chemical additives (formaldehyde among other things) and the fact that most tobacco grown in the USA uses fertilizer with radioactive isotopes mixed in, and you've got something that can only do harm. That some folks live to be 100 while chain-smoking is a testament to their good genetics.


Conversely, DMSO is a free radical scavenger:

Free radicals cause the cells to age more rapidly and also cause the cells to mutate causing cancers, birth defects, and other diseases. DMSO is the most potent free radical scavenger known. Even low concentrations of DMSO can greatly reduce the radiation and free radical damage.

A study involving cervical cancer patients in Russia who received radiation treatment was reported in the Russian Radiological Journal Meditsinskaia Radiological. In this study DMSO was applied topically to 22 cervical cancer patients prior to radiation treatment. The control group consisted of 59 patients who received radiation therapy without DMSO . The DMSO protected patients did not get radiation burns and other symptoms of radiation toxicity while the control group had the normally expected toxic reactions.

 

[Superbeast]

And people smoke all their lives without ill effects, so clearly smoking is harmless.

I appreciate your logic, but that's a rather desperate comparison, chemically speaking.

Smoking generates large amounts of free radicals, which rob electrons. Couple that with the addition of numerous chemical additives (formaldehyde among other things) and the fact that most tobacco grown in the USA uses fertilizer with radioactive isotopes mixed in, and you've got something that can only do harm. That some folks live to be 100 while chain-smoking is a testament to their good genetics.

It is not a desperate comparison, it was to highlight that just because an MD took the stuff daily it does not prove that it is harmless, because there are smokers (and largely everyone agrees smoking is very harmful to your health) who not only lived to extreme long age but attribute said fact to smoking itself. Such anecdotes, whether for DMSO or smoking, are clearly not a valid basis for proof of a lack of harm.

 

[ScaredIndie]

And people smoke all their lives without ill effects, so clearly smoking is harmless.

I appreciate your logic, but that's a rather desperate comparison, chemically speaking.

Smoking generates large amounts of free radicals, which rob electrons. Couple that with the addition of numerous chemical additives (formaldehyde among other things) and the fact that most tobacco grown in the USA uses fertilizer with radioactive isotopes mixed in, and you've got something that can only do harm. That some folks live to be 100 while chain-smoking is a testament to their good genetics.


Conversely, DMSO is a free radical scavenger:

Free radicals cause the cells to age more rapidly and also cause the cells to mutate causing cancers, birth defects, and other diseases. DMSO is the most potent free radical scavenger known. Even low concentrations of DMSO can greatly reduce the radiation and free radical damage.

A study involving cervical cancer patients in Russia who received radiation treatment was reported in the Russian Radiological Journal Meditsinskaia Radiological. In this study DMSO was applied topically to 22 cervical cancer patients prior to radiation treatment. The control group consisted of 59 patients who received radiation therapy without DMSO . The DMSO protected patients did not get radiation burns and other symptoms of radiation toxicity while the control group had the normally expected toxic reactions.

Not being a doctor I'm really not someone who likes to give medical advice, but I am gonna go out on a limb here and say that studies from the 80's out of Russia are probably worth being suspicious of. Honestly this whole thread reeks of science denialism and I always find that a bit concerning. I would advise you to get your information from medical professionals and not the folks at your local vegan restaurant.

When it comes to medical conspiracies there is a really easy question you can ask to de-bunk them, do the rich and powerful die from the disease who's cure you claim is being suppressed?

 

[Mr.Savage]

If only they had used Vitamin C and DMSO!

Not far off the mark, really...

Effecting a cure when a virus is the offending agent, and many times bringing about this change in the short space of 24 hours, is a rewarding moment in medicine. Vitamin C treatment must be intensive to be successful. Use veins when practical, otherwise give vitamin C intramuscularly. Never give less than 350 mg/kg body weight. This must be repeated every hour for 6 to 12 times, depending upon clinical improvement, then every two to four hours until the patient has recovered.

-- Frederick Robert Klenner, M.D., F.C.C.P., A.A.F.P.
Private practice, Reidsville, N. C.

Aside from Dr. Fred Klenner using massive doses of Vitamin C back in the '40s and '50s, the gentlemen below relied on a similar method:

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

If only they had used Vitamin C and DMSO!

Not far off the mark, really...

Effecting a cure when a virus is the offending agent, and many times bringing about this change in the short space of 24 hours, is a rewarding moment in medicine. Vitamin C treatment must be intensive to be successful. Use veins when practical, otherwise give vitamin C intramuscularly. Never give less than 350 mg/kg body weight. This must be repeated every hour for 6 to 12 times, depending upon clinical improvement, then every two to four hours until the patient has recovered.

-- Frederick Robert Klenner, M.D., F.C.C.P., A.A.F.P.
Private practice, Reidsville, N. C.

Aside from Dr. Fred Klenner using massive doses of Vitamin C back in the '40s and '50s, the gentlemen below relied on a similar method:

Spoiler

It would be funny, except for the dead kid of course.

If you're in the mood for nightmares, I highly recommend googling the good doctor Archie Kalokerinos. Along with advocating vitamin C cures (Which I can almost forgive him for, since he actually did spend a lot of time treating people for vitamin C deficiency), he also appears to have believed that not only are vaccines worthless, they were nothing more then a money making scheme, and a crafty way to commit deliberate genocide. He believed the WHO were killing people by the truck load in Africa on purpose, were deliberately spreading AIDs and hepatitis, and somehow seems to have come to the conclusion that smallpox was eradicated but shear, dumb luck, exactly at the same time that smallpox vaccinations were being administered.

The man was beyond crazy - He was a menace.

 

[Mr.Savage]

The man was beyond crazy - He was a menace.

Love him or hate him, you can't argue with results.


As I keep saying, the medical journals are awash with reports of Doctors who've used Vitamins as a therapy in their practice to great effect:

Summary

In these selected six cases of probable viral infections, Viron-1, a preparation for intravenous administration consisting of 2000 mg. of ascorbic acid per dose fortified with certain B-vitamins, promoted prompt patient response. In four of the above mentioned cases improvement was especially rapid and dramatic. The patients were of different groups and conditions treated were varied. Of significant interest is the shortened morbidity period observed when Viron-1 was given either singly or in conjunction with other therapy. No untoward side effects were observed.

Conclusion

In the experience of this investigator, daily doses of 2000 mg. of ascorbic acid fortified with B-complex vitamins given intravenously provides a valuable adjunct in the routine management of a variety of acute viral infections. Further investigation is warranted to determine the complete range of viral diseases which can be treated beneficially with this therapeutic adjunct.

 

[Jack Action]

Not far off the mark, really...

Effecting a cure when a virus is the offending agent, and many times bringing about this change in the short space of 24 hours, is a rewarding moment in medicine. Vitamin C treatment must be intensive to be successful. Use veins when practical, otherwise give vitamin C intramuscularly. Never give less than 350 mg/kg body weight. This must be repeated every hour for 6 to 12 times, depending upon clinical improvement, then every two to four hours until the patient has recovered.

-- Frederick Robert Klenner, M.D., F.C.C.P., A.A.F.P.
Private practice, Reidsville, N. C.

Aside from Dr. Fred Klenner using massive doses of Vitamin C back in the '40s and '50s, the gentlemen below relied on a similar method:

Spoiler

There is absolutely no way in hell that would work as stated (among the most basic reasons imaginable, Vitamin C isn't magical infection-targeting bleach nor is it Berserker Shrooms for white blood cells), and even if it somehow did, overdriving your immune system to the point where it can burn out meningitis in less than half an hour can't possibly be good for your... anything.

These things read a lot like homeopathy. "I gave the patient sugar twice a day and saw cancer remission in less than a week!"

[small]Also, F.A.P.M. *snicker*[/small]

 

[Mr.Savage]

There is absolutely no way in hell that would work as stated.

Tell that to the man in this news segment:

... and even if it somehow did, overdriving your immune system to the point where it can burn out meningitis in less than half an hour can't possibly be good for your... anything.

By what mechanism would the immune system (or... anything) be harmed with the introduction of high dose Vitamin C for acute infection?

Break it down for me. Show me exactly why it wouldn't work, and don't hold back on the technical details.

These things read a lot like homeopathy. "I gave the patient sugar twice a day and saw cancer remission in less than a week!"

Vitamins aren't even remotely similar to homeopathy, which is based on using the smallest possible amount of a given medicament, and then diluting it down to essentially nothing with lots of water.

High dose Vitamin C therapy is the very antithesis of homeopathy. Vitmins are something you can measure, homeopathy is not.