Characters you hate that everyone loves
- Thread starter DoctorObviously
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That's another thing. It's dumb that Rob keeps Jiame out in the open like that. And that he takes so many prisoners, and gives them all medical attention. He's got that same misguided altruism that got his father killedStrazdas said:
Except for all the sex scenes. Considering all the rape that happens in the books and there are only 2 full frontal nude scenes in the first two seasons...
They shoot around a lot of nudity, They make up for it in gore (Which is a weird American thing, but still)
When the actual quality of the show takes such a hit from poor casting decisions. They've changed Game of Thrones from (What I'm assuming, because I've never read the books) a story about kids being thrust into overwhelming situations because of some stupid struggle over some big metal chair nobody cares about. into a show about stupid emotional adults with no sense of priority in a harsh and unforgiving world and it just makes you wonder what the hell happened to natural selection in Winterfell.
If they NEED to artificially age the characters 10 years (For the sake of boobs) then they need to write them 10 years older. 10 years is a LONG TIME!!!!!! and 10 years in pseudo-mideveal times might as well be 100.
Winterfell seems like the kind of place where if you life past 20 you're the smartest, the strongest or the luckiest person in the world. Or at least that you had the sense to not get eaten by a direwolf.
With all these characters being 15, 13, 10 How ever old Aria and Joffery are supposed to be. still living under their parents roofs it makes sense for them to be stupid and emotional because they don't know what a difficult life is. Adults would understand that sometimes people get them selves killed.
a Daenerys who had 26 years to sit and listen to her brother plan to sell her to the Dothraki would have told him to fuck off.
A 25 year old Rob Stark went to kings landing, and apologized for his fathers brashness in hopes of getting his sisters back. Because by that point he would have enough experience to understand his father's weakness for doing the "Right" thing.
These are teenagers being played by adults, and the way that looks from the outside is that these are adults that act like teenagers. And that doesn't work in a serious show. Fans of the books can overlook it, but for someone like me it looks like George R. R. Martin loves writing stupid characters.
i agree with this.Mikeyfell said:
Rape? I dont remember any rape in the books. I mean unless you count the Dathraki pilaging the city they conquered, then yes, there is a scene in the book where Daenerys is walking down the street and sees women beign raped. It seems to ahve been cut and went straight for Daenerys talking to Drago. before that the weddign ceremony rapes were shown in the show.
I agree, however i can udnerstand such decisions as working with real age actors would simply be impossible for current television.
so you assume (imagine) what happened in the books, compare the show to your imagination, and declare that show is inferior. okay.... >.> <.<
They needed to artificialy age characters 10 years due to stupid censorship limitations of modern cinema. if you want to blame anyone - blame them.
I do not know how smart you are, so i cannot declare this false, but Winterfell was simply a medieval town, not full of geniuses as some may seem to wish, that shows realistic (read: flawed and stupid) people.
so your claiming no adult ever acts stupidly, makes wrong decisions based on their emotions?
You are aware that in real life 26 year olds DO get sold for marriage even in current world, let alone in paternal rule of middle ages. In many cases the women does not even consider telling him to fuck off as an option. and neither did daenerys back then - she was a child, even if she was in a adult body.
So if i were to murder your father for beign the only one non-corrupt in the council, kidnap your sisters, you would come and apologize to me?
and thats why he deserved to be beheaded in a humiliating way? really?
I don't know first hand, but I was told there was a lot more rape in the books than in the show. It might have been the Dothraki part.Strazdas said:
Yeah, kind of hard to do 5 seasons worth of principle photography before a kid gets a growth spurt
uh hu... but was I wrong?
If the characters in the books were adults would you have liked the books as much?
I should read the books before I compare anything to them, but a hypothetical version of Game of Thrones that is exactly the same as the HBO show except the characters were all their intended ages would be leagues better.
No... but teenagers make worse decisions. How much have you matured in 10 years? I'll say it again. 10 years is a long time. Given that that's how those characters would have reacted 10 years ago it seems irrational that they'd have the same reaction at their adjusted ages. And especially in the teenage years. I doubt 15 year old Rob would act similarly to 16 year old Rob.
And in a setting like Westeros, I would say that making a rash emotionally based decision would be enough to get you killed.
You are aware that not all women are Daenerys Targaryen. And I really have no idea how she'd react if she'd spent 13 extra years putting up with her brother's shit. She could have been abused and broken down to the point she had no will of her own. Then I doubt Kal Drogo would have even wanted her. He could have a younger more spirited slave for much cheaper. She could have gone mad with bottled up rage towards her brother, snapped and killed him. Robert Baratheon might have just had her killed in that time. She might have been psychologically scarred so that she would be the exact same nervous 13 year old for the rest of her life, but I doubt getting raped a couple of times would have set her on the kind of power-trip she needed to decide to walk into a flaming funeral pier holding Dragon eggs.
Hell, Robert Baratheon could have died, Joffery could have been found out as a bastard and killed Stannis could have had a heart attack and an entirely new line of kings could have started and given the two remaining Targaryens a full pardon.
13 years is a LONG TIME!
Her actions make sense for a 13 year old. In the book (I'm assuming) She's an extremely well written character. As an adult, not so much.
If you were the king.
And the thing you actually killed my father for was treason. Like, threatening your claim to the throne by calling you a bastard.
Then yes. I would pledge fealty to you and beg you to let my sisters return home.
I feel like that course of action would be the most likely to get my sisters back.
If I was 15 I would probably want to chop your head off. So I'd gather 20,000 northerners, throw caution to the wind, and attack the bulk of the royal army.
Well, you don't call the king a bastard unless you're able to defend your self.
That's staging a coup 101.
Even for all the incest that went on Joffery was still beset the throne, and the king doesn't need a reason to chop your head off, the last thing you want to do is give him one. (Especially not a spoiled prick like Joffery)
Did he deserve it? Well I personally don't like the character, the only thing he did right was sire Aria and Jon. He definitely set his own self up for the pike. I think Joffery was acting rationally when he had him beheaded.
*applause* Batman has gotten so overexposed lately. Now they're shoehorning him into Man of Steel.The Great JT said:
I especially loathe the Nolan trilogy. I'm sick of super-realism, sick of grimdark, sick of everyone praising Ledger's performance as Greasy Unpleasant Hobo Guy, sick of how the tyrilogy's grimdark is poluting everything in DC, sick of idiots who are convinced that Batman was created in 2005 by Chris Nolan, sick of people who cut down any DC thing that ISN't Nolangrimdarkshit... and sick of waiting for Cartoon Network to put the rest of "The Brave and the Bold" on Netflix so I can marathon the whole glorious thing.
So as long as there are people agreeing with you it doesn ot matter that you just pulled it out of your ass?Mikeyfell said:
When readign the books, save for a few characters i didnt really care about their age. then again im the kind of person that knows there are smart teenagers and stupid adults. i guess most peopel are ignorant of this.
Teenagers are often not allowed to make better decisions. becuase their teenagers. and silly adults often think they are stupid just because of that. you know, those silly adults that say stuff just like your saying.
Spoiler: and it does. that does not mean one cnat udnerstand why he made a rash emtionally based decision.
you are aware that not all women are Ripley and similar badasses? you do? now what was your point again?
Thats right, you dont, because she is Martins character, and not yours. He knows. he showed us. and now we know. Though admitedly book goes a bit deeper into her emotional justification, while the series dont really ahve time for inner monologue.
You do realized that Kal Drogo agreed to marry her before he saw her right? And that at the begining she had no will of her own untill Kal's slave showed her how to sexually pelase Kal.
are we playing a what if game now? what if humasn had wings, then he chracters would all look silly. sorry, but this is not an argument but merely fanfiction.
And it was what the witch done to Drogo and not rapes that got her on a power-trip. She had to be strong (like a dragon) for all dathraki, since Drogo could no longer be.
if i was a incest child whos mother plotted and killed the real king, then killed your father, and while at it dont even have the right to the throne.
Well i guess you would work well with the Eunich then, if you get the reference.
he has a written document from the actual king declaring him the ruler till jofrey comes of age. for all intends and purposes he was the current king. and got killed for treason. becasue the bastards bought the city guard with moneys.
Or you mean that everyone should go around with army of bodyuards becuase you never know when some lunatic with enough gold may want your head.
he was acting rationalyl going agaisnt everyone, including his own family, that wanted to send him to the watchers, thus starting a war, for his own entertainment. nothing Joffery has done was rational.
I personally didnt like the character either, but i dont think he was stupidly depicted.
...Oooooooooookay. Moving on.Strazdas said:
...you... make a compelling insult. Moving on.
That 13 yearolds are fundamentally different from 26 yearolds? and that 15 yearolds are fundamentally different from 25 yearolds. and that 12 yearolds are fundamentally different from 16 yearolds.
Kind of my point for the entire comment. Characteristics that work for a character of one age don't translate over unscathed into another.
Well, 13 year old Daenerys was Martin's character. 26 year old Daenerys is a new concoction cooked up by HBO. If I had read the book I'm pretty sure I'd like 13 yearold Daenerys a lot.
We are playing a what if game right now. The exact same game that the HBO writers didn't play when someone cast Emilia Clarke as Daenerys. There is a problem with jumping characters up out of their teens and into adulthood. I mean there is. If there is one thing in this entire chain of comments that's not an opinion it's that sentence. That problem should be addressed by the writers in some way shape or form.
(In the book does Joffery know he's a bastard?)
Rob didn't know that. Stannis was the only person Eddard told besides Cersei.
And also who cares if he's a bastard? He's on the throne and none of his guards object. As far as anyone who stands between you and your head on a pike Joffery is the king. No amount of revenge will save Eddard, some groveling might save your sisters. To me anyway the choice is obvious.
OOOOOOHHHHHH Burn. you got me good. And you would get all your supporters wiped out by attacking the richest most powerful family in the entire kingdom. So... Tomato tomato I suppose?
And when Cersei tore the letter up dear old Ned should have reconsidered his position on the matter if he had any inclination of keeping his head on his shoulders. Honor and integrity are hard habits to break. Eddard does act in accordance to his own common sense, which is good. I just don't like the character very much because of his stubborn moral compass.
When you play the Game of Thrones you win, or you die.
Letting someone who undermined your claim to the throne and tried to stage a coup to put himself on the throne walk away with his head is not a way to keep the throne.
And Huh? starting a war against the people who attacked him first is for his own entertainment?
Mostly everything Joffery does is in the interest of not being dethroned. Which is rational for a young king who is a total prick.