Chauvin Found Guilty of All Charges

Revnak

We must imagine Sisyphus horny
Legacy
May 25, 2020
2,944
3,099
118
Country
USA
Do you think it possible for this trial to be declared a mistrial due to the mob of people outside the building threatening to burn it down? I'm not asking if you think they should, do you think it possible and/or likely?
Do you think it’s possible that the established Jewry among the financiers caused the Great War as well as German defeat? Not asking if you think anything should be done about it, just if it’s possible and/or likely?
 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,169
969
118
Country
USA
Do you think it possible for this trial to be declared a mistrial due to the mob of people outside the building threatening to burn it down? I'm not asking if you think they should, do you think it possible and/or likely?
If nothing changes, probably not possible. If a juror comes forward and says they convicted because they heard a politician was planning on burning their city down if they didn't convict, then it absolutely is possible.

Ignore Revnak.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Specter Von Baren

Asita

Answer Hazy, Ask Again Later
Legacy
Jun 15, 2011
3,227
1,079
118
Country
USA
Gender
Male
Do you think it possible for this trial to be declared a mistrial due to the mob of people outside the building threatening to burn it down? I'm not asking if you think they should, do you think it possible and/or likely?
Unlikely. Without a solid instance of misconduct or procedural issues within the trial to base it on, declaring a mistrial on the grounds of "the jurors could possibly have been affected by public opinion" reads too much like trying to get a mulligan on the trial because it didn't have the outcome they wanted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Specter Von Baren

Specter Von Baren

Annoying Green Gadfly
Legacy
Aug 25, 2013
5,637
2,856
118
I don't know, send help!
Country
USA
Gender
Cuttlefish
If nothing changes, probably not possible. If a juror comes forward and says they convicted because they heard a politician was planning on burning their city down if they didn't convict, then it absolutely is possible.

Ignore Revnak.
Unlikely. Without a solid instance of misconduct or procedural issues within the trial to base it on, declaring a mistrial on the grounds of "the jurors could possibly have been affected by public opinion" reads too much like trying to get a mulligan on the trial because it didn't have the outcome they wanted.
Ok then. Thank you.
 

SilentPony

Previously known as an alleged "Feather-Rustler"
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
12,058
2,469
118
Corner of No and Where
That isn't a case of the law enforcement being unrecognized and dissolved, at least not in the way I mean. A large country cannot exist without a body that enforces the laws, if the people do not trust the body that enforces the laws or the body that makes the laws then the only option is to dissolve that large country into smaller communities that can create the kind of laws and enforcement of them that they wish.

In other words, something like dissolving the United States into individual states. The likely result would be that several states, particularly the ones with few natural resources, will join together into larger, but still smaller than the current US, countries. The alternative is that the country will descend into civil war as factions fight to seize control of the country and its power for themselves.
I'm not sure how you're getting to this point? Like the abuse from and failure to hold accountable local and state police forces doesn't lend itself to the dissolution of the Federal Government. I mean the two aren't related at all. The Federal Police, the FBI, weren't the ones who killed Floyd nor where they on trial.
This is local people not trusting local police. Breaking the nation up into 50 nation states War of the Roses style doesn't change that or even address any of the issues.
Its like having a kid cheat playing football on the playground, so lets close the Olympics.

I mean a real change would be something like no Ex-military in the police force with the exception of SWAT which should be a separate branch, police chiefs should be elected officials, no more military ranks ie Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain, just call them Constable rank 1-whatever, expand recruitment to include therapists, sociologists and counselors, no police testimony without body camera footage, and this one I hear on a podcast and I'm still mulling it over but open up civil laws to allow shooting victims to sue the gun manufacturers as it'll cause a crackdown real quick.
Those are a little more practical than dissolving the US.
 

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Feb 9, 2008
11,286
7,082
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
Lol off-topic, but wow they really beat you over the head with it. I get the sentiment and maybe the comedy. I question their research though. I'm not "sure" the terminology specific xenophobia would be correct for that timeframe. My debate brain wants to go research this because I wanna say anti-catholism didn't come until later in the 1900s and I'm not sure Asian or Homosexual were common slurs. Then again I'm sure the developers would have blanched at using the real slurs that I won't repeat aloud. The jew thing I believe. That sadly dates back a long long time. * nope I'm wrong anti-catholism does date back as well.

I guess I could see it. A tad over the top, but believable.
Anti-Catholicism was definatly a thing at/before the time. The Know-Nothing Party was notable Anti-catholic(and disliked Germans and the Irish because of their Catholicism). The rest of it I think is to reflect Moon being a hateful conspiracy bigot which would make him notably welcome in Qanon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
29,406
12,232
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
That isn't a case of the law enforcement being unrecognized and dissolved, at least not in the way I mean. A large country cannot exist without a body that enforces the laws, if the people do not trust the body that enforces the laws or the body that makes the laws then the only option is to dissolve that large country into smaller communities that can create the kind of laws and enforcement of them that they wish.

In other words, something like dissolving the United States into individual states. The likely result would be that several states, particularly the ones with few natural resources, will join together into larger, but still smaller than the current US, countries. The alternative is that the country will descend into civil war as factions fight to seize control of the country and its power for themselves.
Talk about side stepping and avoiding the issue like a zombie plague. You never want to learn nor understand. You rather go off at the camp fantasyland and talk about an outcome no one else was asking for. Or one that is certainly impossible. We call that goal posting and avoiding the issue without solving anything or have a meaningful discussion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SilentPony

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
29,406
12,232
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
The World is full of theories.


Unless you have some good fucking source and not just "Guy on the internet" this yet another take on "That's why there's a triangle on the money".

So put up or shut up, because I can post that video all goddamn day rather then waste breath responding to inane conspiracy babbling.
I remember that scene. My brother was playing the zombie expansion. We 😂 our asses off so hard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dalisclock

Specter Von Baren

Annoying Green Gadfly
Legacy
Aug 25, 2013
5,637
2,856
118
I don't know, send help!
Country
USA
Gender
Cuttlefish
Talk about side stepping and avoiding the issue like a zombie plague. You never want to learn nor understand. You rather go off at the camp fantasyland and talk about an outcome no one else was asking for. Or one that is certainly impossible. We call that goal posting and avoiding the issue without solving anything or have a meaningful discussion.
No. I just look at things from a historical perspective.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
29,406
12,232
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
No. I just look at things from a historical perspective.
Yeah, if it's convenient. You better start looking at more than just one angle or the angle you feel is most comfortable when it comes to history. You have to do way more than what things from a "historical perspective". Those tangents lead nowhere and try to take away from the main issue.

Did you watch The Double toasted video I posted on thidy thread? A simple yes or no. If you did not, I highly suggest you and @Hawki do.

You both no longer have any excuses. So save it.

 

SilentPony

Previously known as an alleged "Feather-Rustler"
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
12,058
2,469
118
Corner of No and Where
Even if he doesn't watch videos and see your point of view, I'm struggling to think of a time in history where the dissolution of the Government over local abuse ended up helping. I guess maybe the Soviet Union, although the old Soviet states are just as corrupt and abusive under the guise of constitutional democracies as they were as soviet block states.

The Roman colonies didn't benefit from the Fall, Greek nation states collapsing didn't help locals. The collapse of Spanish colonies in South America just led to centuries of bloody civil war as local warlords took control of or destroyed villages and towns as they saw fit. Mexico is an all but failed state where drug lords and the Mafia has control over entire states and the Government has all but given up.
 

Kwak

Elite Member
Sep 11, 2014
2,333
1,867
118
Country
4
This right here strikes pretty close to the crux of the problem, apart from the daily, generally partisan, bullshit, and highlights exactly how deeply-rooted and systemic these problems are.

The public perception and expectation of law enforcement is not consistent with what law enforcement is, nor what law enforcement does, in the context of Western justice systems. In fact, it's the complete opposite of what that perception and expectation is. And no, this isn't about systemic racism, training methods, the dubious origins of contemporary police forces, what personality types the job attracts, or any other discrete issue within the broader context.

Pay close attention to this video, starting at 26:48:


That's a cop, explaining to a group of law students, exactly what his job as a cop is and how that contrasts to how the justice system nominally operates.



Here's the TLDR: cops don't act on the presumption of innocence. Their job as state actors is to aid prosecution, and they do this through investigation, case-building, arrest, detention, and interrogation such that prosecution is best-informed as to how to exercise its prosecutorial discretion, and should a case go to trial, maximize the possibility of conviction. Thus, cops actually act on the presumption of guilt in order to most effectively aid prosecution.

This "protect and serve" stuff is public relations bullshit. Maybe once in an entire cop's career, if they're lucky, they might have to act swiftly and decisively to do something that might make someone a teeny, tiny bit safer. And guess what, that isn't engaging in high speed chases, gunfights, busting up "violent" protest, or any of this other dumb cop TV (news or fiction, not that there's much difference) bullshit the American public is awash with on a daily basis. In almost every case, that shit endangers public safety more than it provides.

And the shit cops could do to foster public safety? They either don't do it, or fuck it up.

Because that's not cops' jobs. Cops' jobs are to act as prosecutorial field agents.
Except when they convince rape victims not to bother with pressing charges.
 

Piscian

Elite Member
Apr 28, 2020
1,952
2,084
118
Country
United States
My city.


Edit: The day of the Chauvin guilty verdict.
You know, regardless of the complexity the article makes it hard not to imagine the cops just firing in all directions like Yosemite Sam. He shot her 4 times from like a meter away...like dude, calm the fuck down. You literally coulda just grabbed her or stepped between them.

tenor (75).gif
 
Last edited:

SilentPony

Previously known as an alleged "Feather-Rustler"
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
12,058
2,469
118
Corner of No and Where
There are 3 views of Cops, how Cops view themselves, how Cops want civilians to view them and how Civilians actually view them.
As far as Cops are concerned they're all fucking John McClaine ready and waiting for a squad of ethnic terrorists to attack and they're gonna get their assault rifles and have a 10min shootout in the streets, totally unaware how much ammo that would expend and how many stray bullets need to be accounted for.
As far as Cops want us to be concerned, they're Sheriff Andy Taylor, calm, respected and wise black and white White guy from a down home country town with no more problems than ol' man Gregerson's prized cow got loose, and everything is peaceful and slightly wacky.
And as far as civilians are concerned the cops are from South Park; bumbling idiots who can't tell the difference between a right and left hand, and actively shoot at black people and go on strike when the government takes their tanks and flamethrowers away.
 

Revnak

We must imagine Sisyphus horny
Legacy
May 25, 2020
2,944
3,099
118
Country
USA
The Roman colonies didn't benefit from the Fall,
There’s others worth debating here (particularly South America, their issues are more Monroe Doctrine than self-inflicted and the comparative prosperity of the 19th century attests to that), but this Rome one is transparently false. Diet quality, height, likelihood of dying violently, lifespan, and I think even child mortality all improved after the fall of the Roman Empire. Rome sucked ass to live under, it just looked nice to be powerful in.
 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,169
969
118
Country
USA
Diet quality, height, likelihood of dying violently, lifespan, and I think even child mortality all improved after the fall of the Roman Empire. Rome sucked ass to live under, it just looked nice to be powerful in.
Cough cough, Catholicism, cough.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
29,406
12,232
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
Even if he doesn't watch videos and see your point of view, I'm struggling to think of a time in history where the dissolution of the Government over local abuse ended up helping. I guess maybe the Soviet Union, although the old Soviet states are just as corrupt and abusive under the guise of constitutional democracies as they were as soviet block states.

The Roman colonies didn't benefit from the Fall, Greek nation states collapsing didn't help locals. The collapse of Spanish colonies in South America just led to centuries of bloody civil war as local warlords took control of or destroyed villages and towns as they saw fit. Mexico is an all but failed state where drug lords and the Mafia has control over entire states and the Government has all but given up.
Thank you for the history lesson, but something is better than just sitting around putting your thumbs doing nothing. I'm not asking for to take out all forms of corruption. I'm just asking to put people in place that actually give a crap about what they're doing. No more of this frat boy crap and the with us against this attitude. People are people. Civilians should not be treated as live stocks or less than insects.