KazeAizen said:
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Yes, superheroes are wish fulfillment. Still saying she has to have cheesecake is kind of degrading and just strikes me as stupid. Luckily inch by inch we are moving away from traditional conventions of portraying heroes and heroines. The only notable exception to the ideal body thing that I can think of off hand is Bouncing Boy from the Legion of Superheroes. That's kind of sad. Its also kind of sad that Kamala Kahn is the only costumed heroine I think of off hand who's costume doesn't have any cheesecake value what so ever. This kind of thought process infuriates me to no end.
Whatever. You have your opinions and I have mine. Making Supergirl modest and have almost a defiantly Silver age and 70s Linda Carter Wonder Woman feel to her is awesome. Supergirl doesn't need to show anything off. Also the new Captain Marvel she's dawned a new costume that doesn't make her look like she's trying to outdo Wonder Woman in the bikini costume thing and is overall a more modest costume. They'll probably be using that one in 4 years when she shows up on the big screen. If one of the biggest things you have to say is that Superheroes should and in fact are required to show off their physiques when donning a costume I think that maybe you should read between the lines a big more than looking at superficial stuff like how much middrift or leg Supergirl shows or doesn't show.
The reason is that this is wish fulfillment for women, the problem is current "feminists" trying to make the argument that this kind of thing is degrading and stupid. The idea being to tell women they shouldn't want to be beautiful for see that kind of thing as an ideal. That's more of a propaganda statement more than anything, based on some rather disturbing and counter-productive agendas, and involves not just attacks on things like comic books, but things like the iconic Barbie doll.
True feminism actually involves sexualization, today a lot of liberals like to try and dismiss that as "Wave One" feminism because it doesn't fit the current political objectives, but in reality if it doesn't spring from that and what it established then it's not true feminism, bur rather a divergent philosophy that is wearing the mask. Things like "Playboy" and even "James Bond" were very much feminist works in the iconic way they portrayed women.
Comic books, dolls, etc... are the literal icons of today and exist to present a sort of ideal. Indeed when it comes to super heroes a LOT of time has been put into analysis and comparing them to the gods of old and the way their stories work out similarly to the mythological gods and heroes of old and their tales. Such icons were always presented as being beautiful and physically perfect to the standards of the time, the dudes were ripped, the women were toned and gorgeous. You didn't see say Athena portrayed as some portly middle aged matron with a realistic physique, or even Hera for that matter who was a literal goddess of the hearth. Our "New Gods" (to invoke Jack "King" Kirby) are much like the old ones in the way they are intended to be portrayed, except in this case we simply accept they exist to entertain us with tales of wonder.
Right now the current climate seems to be defined by a war between the "Hotties" and the "Notties" so to speak. Women who are not attractive in real life, having not won "The Genetic Lottery" looking at the amazing lives attractive women in particular can have without ever needing to do anything to earn it. With girls in particular it seems those who don't have it take it hard. This side of current feminism that thinks "comic book cheesecake" is degrading is largely coming from people who dislike the fact that both fantasy and reality show something they will never have. The reaction is to pretty much to get people to try and do away with the artwork and such that reminds people of their inferiority complexes, and try and convince society to get away from that standard, including largely telling girls that they shouldn't want to pursue attractiveness and put in the effort, something which goes beyond say confronting anorexia and gradually seems to be telling all the girls to have that extra piece of cake or a double helping instead of exorcising willpower with the intent of looking good. On some levels we're pretty much doing away with real feminism which includes both working towards and flaunting sexuality as one of it's major tenets (for those that can of course) towards returning to the shackles of oppression where women are being told it's wrong to look or act that way, or stand out, the major difference being that it's not just men pushing the chains of oppression this time. In short I find it MORE offensive and degrading to pretty much say "Supergirl" should be ashamed for showing so much skin, as no matter how it's dressed up and argued your pretty much making the exact kinds of points that real feminism confronted through things like "Playboy"... and really if you didn't know Playboy was a feminist publication, and all about empowerment it sort of shows how far gone things are getting. Pretty much when you start making arguments that "Cheesecake" is bad and that you can't have beautiful women showing off their stuff, your shooting yourself in the foot. If the modern PC brigade was in ancient Greece all the statues of gods and heroes would be of fat, dumpy, people and the "Mr. And MS. Olympia" competitions would probably be competitive eating events involving stuffing your face with Baklava, with the last one to not fall into a diabetic coma being declared the winner (I'd also imagine we'd have Belly Wheels outside the pages of 2000AD comics as well...).
Now, everything I've said aside, a point that seems to be being missed here is that there is nothing wrong with having characters who differ from the norm within comic books. Not being one type of cheesecake or another might be something that makes a particular heroine stand out when all, or most, of the others do. That said we're specifically talking about Supergirl here, her and Superman by definition are suppose to be paragons, almost literally space gods that everyone is supposed to be looking up to as the ultimate example of what we should strive to be. Both of them literally punch it out with other gods, sometimes quite literally, and are viewed as being equals with them. The Black Racer (one of Death's Avatars) didn't want to fight Superman (even though he could) due to Superman being a cosmic being at the beginning of "Our Worlds At War" when he came for Steel's soul (I think it was) to say nothing of the brawls with Darkseid who is one of Kirby's titlular "New Gods" and frankly for all his attitude the Kryptonians are among the few beings the New Gods view as being equals, Darkseid might hate Superman and Supergirl, but he actually respects them and when he hatches a plan "how am I going to deal with Superman" actually merits specific consideration (while Darkseid has in the past stomped Superman and required multiple heroes to take down, Supes has also taken him solo a few times, and win or lose it's usually one hell of a fight). The thing is "Superman" looks like the ideal paragon of humanity, he has the kind of beautiful, sculpted, muscle definition that is beyond reality even for lifelong body builders (which should not be confused with power lifters who look like giant fatsos a lot of the time since they build bands of powerful muscle in layers as opposed to trying to focus on the definition of the muscles). He's pretty much the ideal of a "beautiful man" in the classic greek tradition, he'd fit right in next to statues of Zeus and Posidan especially if you gave him a flowing beard. Supergirl is supposed to be the female version of this, and show off her perfect feminine ideal of a physique, being basically the same thing her cousin is.
Now yeah, there is no real reason why you couldn't say have a cosmic power house who looks more normal, like say a female equivalent of Lobo who looks like Rosie The Riveter in a biker-mama jacket (I have no idea if this has already been done). It just doesn't fit this particular character, and of course it needs to stand out in comics.
To be honest, I'm surprised I haven't seen more complaints about the way they changed "The Wall" in DC since being an older, matronly, woman with an attitude in a world populated by all of these physical specimins who can juggle tanks (and even laying down the law for some of them in "The Suicide Squad") to a foxy special forces lady in "The New 52", liking it into "Team 7" from the Wildstorm imprint which was folded into the main continuity (long story on that). See, there is an example of a character you can say "okay, well she probably shouldn't look like that", as opposed to saying Supergirl should put on more clothes and be more normal looking.
