Check Out Video of Last Night's Violent Videogames Debate

[The Dark Canuck]

Wait, is Mr. Steyer's claim about liquor stores true? Do 12-year-olds buy games at liquor stores in California?
And really, what are they doing in the liquor store in the first place?

 

[MasterSplinter]

I rather liked common sense media when they dished at EA marketing for dead space 2, now I'am disappoint.
George Rose has a very stoic poker face.

 

[hamster mk 4]

I despise the term "Common Sense" it is the adult way of saying "because every body is doing it." People who use it are trying to win an argument without using logic, often because they don't have the logic to win the argument.

 

[googleback]

I'm a UK resident and while I think it works here, the way they're proposing it in america is pretty much singling out games like some sort of drug, it should NOT be the only artform to have such regulation.

not living in the UK you may think that us having a system like what they're proposing in america dumbs down our content but its actually the same most of the time. I rarely hear of a game getting censored. I can only think of The Manhunt issues and that ps2 horror "Rule of Rose" because of the children being involved or something? i never played it.

the country that is REALLY strict I hear is Australia? whats it like for you guys?

but on topic; if this doesn't get laughed out of the courts then its trouble

 

[googleback]

Also I think the activision guy is CLEARLY not an experienced public speaker... what is it with the games industry and never having people who can string together an entire sentence going on TV?

WE DO NOT GET REPRESENTED PROPERLY. THIS IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM.

 

[Reed Spacer]

Damn.

I was sort of hoping it was a violent videogames debate.

You know; punching, kicking, then someone picks up a chair...

 

[crop52]

hey, the guy in the middle, the guy from activision,
does he have scottish accent or a slavic accent?

that's really the only thought keeping me awake during with video,

 

[darkcommanderq]

I thought Mature games were already limited to kids over 18. Mabye its a self imposed policy for places like walmart who knows.

Im not really sure what the issue is hear.

One more thing, the ESRB should add another rating to separate mature games like diablo II, (2d blood splatter please...) from mature games like gears of war, were the blood is splattering all over the screen when you chainsaw someone.

Just sayin.

 

[skibadaa]

I am hardcore on the side of the games industry in this debate, but I'm not sure the fellow from activision was a wise choice to represent the industry. He's being a little more arrogant and dismissive than I like, and not nearly as well organized and clear in what he's saying as the guy from CSM.

Wait don't you need an ID or parent to buy an M rated game? Whats the problem?

the problem is that it's not LAW that you need an ID or parent to do so, it's merely industry policy, and opponents of videogames seem to think that's not good enough.

-m

Dude im totally with you on that, the Activision guy is just being a bit of an ass as far as i can see. The other two really present a good argument, and tbh i do think that certain games shouldnt be sold or played by minors, in particular online games like call of duty or WoW, but the reasons i think this have nothing to do with violent content, it seems to me the more pertinent issue is the level of addiction that MMO's and online shooters present. To demonstrate my point, please examine Exhibit A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YersIyzsOpc

If there were ever a better example why MMO's are not for kids i dont know what it is

 

[skibadaa]

hey, the guy in the middle, the guy from activision,
does he have scottish accent or a slavic accent?

that's really the only thought keeping me awake during with video,

Neither, sounds mediterranien to me, spain or italy, but absolutely NOT scottish

 

[codebulder]

k for real we need to get these money grubbing capitalists out of the chair were a real person who cares about video games should sit. His best defense was (more or less) that he would lose money not that gamers would miss out on an experience, seriously dude stay in the freaking office counting yur money were u belong, he should NOT be someone who should be defending us.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The guy on the left always kept avoiding answers and talking about random shock-value things when asked simple yes or no questions as to push his case, truly a fine Harvard law specimen.


I actually liked the Russian dude in the middle, he was both funny and smart in a correct but not overly forbearing way and that sort of Soviet Union type joke would be something I'd make .

I thought Mature games were already limited to kids over 18. Mabye its a self imposed policy for places like walmart who knows.

Im not really sure what the issue is hear.

One more thing, the ESRB should add another rating to separate mature games like diablo II, (2d blood splatter please...) from mature games like gears of war, were the blood is splattering all over the screen when you chainsaw someone.

Just sayin.

The issue is the fine, the law is as you say but there's not a 1000 dollar fine for every copy sold to a kid and that's what they'd add to the law.

That fine puts a risk and game studios simply won't make games if they risk having to pay 1000 bucks for every single game sold to a kid.


That in turn dampens creativity and outright stops the development of any game rated M cause it's simply not worth the risk. I don't think I'd have to tell you why that would be bad.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

What could possibly go wrong if it's worked fine over here for years?

Because our government is bloated as hell, can't do anything right, and will attempt to steal as much as it can. It can't be trusted.

Not only that but it will ruin any chances of gamers proving that violent games don't make violent gamers. Anyone opposing that view can just point to the law giving the ESRB fangs and say "LOL GOVERNMENT THINKS THEY DO".

After speaking to Matt about this, that doesn't seem to be the problem. The games are restricted regardless. Just not legally. The problem, as I now understand it is:

Here in Australia it's the law and things have worked out fine besides our R18+ debacles. Why don't you just make the ESRB legally enforceable? I don't understand why everyone cares that much. If they want to make it the law that if a child wants a game above their age bracket their parent has to buy it that makes perfect sense. I really don't understand the opposition on this issue. What could possibly go wrong if it's worked fine over here for years?

Because one of the most fundamental rights afforded to americans is the ability to publish material for public consumption without infringement, and making sales to kids illegal counts as infringement on that right.

-m

Edit: To anyone who's not up to speed on american constitutional law, this fight isn't going to make sense - but it's a very important fight in terms of the recognition of games as a legitimate form of expression.

Right, so it's not about the law as such, it's the infringement of constitutional rights and trying to show that games should not be treated any differently. Makes sense now.

 

[InsanityRequiem]

I feel mathematical right now. Don't know why.

1 game here in the US costs roughly $63.

The fine is $1,000.

That is practically about 16 games sold to cover that one fine.

Using the Acti-Blizz guy's numbers: 5,000,000 x $63 = $315,000,000 dollars. Now let's say 10% of that 5 million was sold to minors because of visuals or such, not because the seller knew the child was underage. That'd be 500,000 games.

Cost of fines: 500,000 x $1,000 = $500,000,000.

$315,000,000 - $500,000,000 = -$185,000,000.

That is a negative cost. And since the Publishers really only get about 10% of that $63 profit, the publishers would easily go out of business trying to pay all the fines. That is excluding retailers and developers.

Math doesn't lie sadly. Plus, you have to take into account the people that say 'They never told me it was a 18+ game! They're legally binded to do so!' Or those that buy the games for the kids as gifts, or those that bought the game full on knowing that it was 18+, but down the line say that the child bought the game themselves.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

It was good to hear from the Act/Blizz guy that the average gamer is 32, and other such things, I just wish we could get the message out there that a 'mature' game isn't necessarily shooting someone in the balls then kicking their head off while yelling 'Dicktits!' (although, damn it IS fun!). While many games are suitable for children, it's not a market only aimed at children.

Sorry but games ARE aimed at children and they ARE mostly about shooting people in the balls then kicking their head off while yelling dicktits, at least the mainstream console industry.

If you really think talking about an interactive movie (Heavy Rain) or Bioshock (which is also about shooting and killing) to defend video games being art or aimed at higher age groups then you are sadly mistaken.

There is little question that the industry is immature and not very artistic. Plus, any artistic or truely mature games made are almost always in the minority. We haven't had an artistic game like Shadow of the Collosus, for instance, since....Shadow of the Collosus and even that isn't mainstream.

The medium does have a lot of artistic and mature ELEMENTS and a lot of artistic potential but stop saying that it's not a medium aimed at children or people seeking to fulfil a power fantasy, because that IS the majority of games, whether we like it or not.

I'd agree with most of your points, but as he said in the original video, the average age of a gamer is now 32, it's not just a kid's timewaster any more, but a (admittedly currently immature, but slowly learning and evolving) market and competitor to the movie industry.

I agree that the market is immature, but how many dumb frat boy comedies and teen girlie flicks come out each year? Disney's existence doesn't mean that the movie industry is for kids.

Games can be for kids, but I'd suggest there's something for everyone and the currently widely held opinion that that they are just a childish waste of time is a bad thing and false. All the time this idea is upheld, it's so much harder to allow the acceptance of more mature games.

 

[Hunter65416]

I refuse to watch this, why? it will just piss me off