Child Safety Bill Could Cripple Anime Industry

Gildan Bladeborn

New member
Aug 11, 2009
3,044
0
0
ph0b0s123 said:
Gildan Bladeborn said:
Oh noes, this is horrible!!

...is what I would be saying if I actually gave a crap about anime or manga. Which I do not.
Misterpinky said:
I couldn't care less. I hate Anime, so it isn't in my life in any way whatsoever. Getting rid of it is just fine with me.
That's fine I in return will not give a crap when they come to ban something you enjoy....
Considering "they" are the government of Tokyo, I (do not) quake in my (non-existent) boots, because that is totally (never) going to happen!

Honestly, what part of "the actions of city-level government in Japan do no impact me, nor is it reasonable to presume they ever will" is so hard to grasp? You can't convince me of the "error of my ways" here is what I'm saying, not with that argument - it's nonsense.
 

MadGodXero

New member
Dec 6, 2009
57
0
0
I love anime and manga, but I don't watch much, Mainly One Piece, Bleach, Naruto, and what catches my eye. But I'm not too worried about this. I think it'll just blow over, and we'll all be fine, and still have our beloved anime and mangas. Positive thinking people. No one likes a defeatist.
 

Syntax Error

New member
Sep 7, 2008
2,323
0
0
fundayz said:
Much ado about nothing. What has happened since the big outrage since the videogame trial? Nothing, and exactly the same thing is gonna happen here.

The loli junkies are still going to get their fix one way or another.
That's kinda the point. With this bill, everything BUT the explicitly labeled lolicon will be affected.

I'm still hoping Berserk is not affected (if this ever comes to pass, which hopefully, it wil not).
 

ph0b0s123

New member
Jul 7, 2010
1,689
0
0
Gildan Bladeborn said:
ph0b0s123 said:
Gildan Bladeborn said:
Oh noes, this is horrible!!

...is what I would be saying if I actually gave a crap about anime or manga. Which I do not.
That's fine I in return will not give a crap when they come to ban something you enjoy....
Considering "they" are the government of Tokyo, I (do not) quake in my (non-existent) boots, because that is totally (never) going to happen!

Honestly, what part of "the actions of city-level government in Japan do no impact me, nor is it reasonable to presume they ever will" is so hard to grasp? You can't convince me of the "error of my ways" here is what I'm saying, not with that argument - it's nonsense.
Don't put words in my mouth. The 'they' I was refering to, are the various governments around the globe that seem to be on a banning / censorship binge at the moment. Yes, in this case it is only Tokyo, but even though they are not my elected officials their decision will still have an effect on me.

To assume that only your government can have an impact on your life and that decitions made elsewhere around the globe have no impact, is the hieght of naivete.

So back to my original point. Due to your complete lack of empathy to the plight of Anime fans. When something is decided that will curtail what you want to do, and it will with the way things are going at the moment. As I said, I also won't care and will take time to post as much. Cause that's just the type of a-hole I am...
 

Gildan Bladeborn

New member
Aug 11, 2009
3,044
0
0
ph0b0s123 said:
So back to my original point. Due to your complete lack of empathy to the plight of Anime fans. When something is decided that will curtail what you want to do, and it will with the way things are going at the moment. As I said, I also won't care and will take time to post as much. Cause that's just the type of a-hole I am...
Ah, so it's the nebulous "them" is it? Fair enough! That's still a ridiculous threat, but at least it is grounded in something resembling logic, if you squint, in a dim light.

As for your entirely hypothetical future gloating, I wouldn't hold my breath for that situation ever arising - the only thing I like that is in any danger of bans/wrong-headed legislation negatively impacting the industry/etc... is almost universally the one thing that everyone posting here could be said to have as a common interest and would therefore be negatively impacting you as well: video games. I find it hard to credit that the anime fans here that I've offended with my outspoken and somewhat sarcastic antipathy towards their obsession are going to be in much of a mood to gloat if the Supreme Court rules in favor of California.

"Cutting off your nose to spite your face" is an expression for a reason after all.
 

CRoone

New member
Jul 1, 2010
160
0
0
I'm somewhat torn about this issue, personally.

One one hand, I can support taking the nastier stuff off of the shelves. I've seen firsthand just how utterly messed-up some of their smuttier porn can be, and frankly, taking it off of convenience store shelves and relegating it to back rooms is probably a good idea. I'm not saying they should entirely get rid of the stuff; they just shouldn't keep it all out in the open where just *anybody* can get to it.

On the other hand, this issue smacks more of censorship in general than of merely censoring the filthier products (which, I gather, only *really* extend up to softcore stuff anyway, as this bill doesn't actually cover the stuff that's already classified as porn). As I alluded to above, regulation is the preferable policy here, not outright censorship. In my experience, the Japanese government typically leaves it to families to sort out the various social ills they have (for example, their problem with young people turning shut-in from stress...I think "hikikomori" is the term, but I'm not sure). I don't see why this one should really be any different; a family can teach its children what is acceptable and unacceptable as far as issues of sex are concerned, and can teach them what kinds of media are permissible. The government shouldn't have to step in to fulfill that role now, frankly (that all goes for the West, too - especially America).

That, and think of the negative economic ramifications of censoring those industries. It's bad enough that the West swings back and forth between the extremes of quasi-puritan prudishness and libertine immaturity about sex-in-media, but Japan is supplying a great deal of the manga, anime, and video games that deal with these subjects to the west (Persona 4? Catherine?); *how* each article deals with the subject regardless. Going all prudish and censor-crazy like they might (or, in a worst-case scenario, like Australia apparently did, but somehow worse still) stands to cripple their fragile economy to a great extent...let's not forget that the West, and especially America (and Mexico too, so I've heard), still supply a great deal of demand for the products of that industry, weakened though all of our economies may be. The same can't be said of our support for the japanese fishing industry, that's for certain.

They'll ultimately do what they want to, but hopefully they considered this stuff.

Also, feel free to disagree with any of my points; if I'm misinformed or outright wrong about any of this, I'd like to know.
 

Yukinari

New member
Aug 22, 2009
169
0
0
I can forsee all the game companies and manga distributors losing money because of all of this.
And as for the selling of animes on like DVD and such in america, i can see that stopping if im reading this article right, which is a problem.
And this will also most definatly conclude the end for animes like Panty and Stocking which are brand new.
 

Andantil

New member
May 10, 2009
575
0
0
NOOOOOOOO- and such and so forth.

I'd like to call this unconstitutional, but I'm not familiar with the Japanese constitution, so I'll just say that this bill is fucking stupid. While this will work wonders to clean up the moeshit and fan-service clogging the anime industry, it will be just as effective at fucking over everything else too.

It's not in effect until about halfway through next year, plenty of time for anime studios to relocate outside of Tokyo.
 

Islandboy2

New member
Dec 17, 2010
25
0
0
all i got to say is this....Protecting kids is the parents job and government shouldn't abridge rights to do the parent's job for them.
 

Druyn

New member
May 6, 2010
554
0
0
Okay, not gonna be the most popular thing Ive ever said, but yeah, about goddamn time. There is some messed up shit in the anime world. Not the majority, obviously, or the industry wouldnt have even gone this long, but I think just enough that something really does need to be done.

People are drawing a lot of connections between this and the California Bill, but I think this is actually very different. Id be willing to say that there is a lot more tangible link between anime/manga glorifying kids and the people who read them growing up kind of starting to see them that way too, than there is between video games and violence. And correct me if Im wrong, but Im pretty sure there is no ratings system for manga? All you need is a publisher willing to publish it, which severely limits a parents ability to control their kids and keep them out of it. They would have to read through every issue of everything they want to buy in order to be sure. But thats only if there really is no ratings system, if there is, then Im just wrong. Thats what they need. They need a ratings system, as well as eliminating this lolicon thing from the industry.

Because I will tell you right now, usually I'm pro free speech and shit, especially when its just rampant fearmongering like whats going on with the VG Industry, but lolicon is some fucked up shit, and needs to end.

But I dont think they need to be so broad. You want it gone, there are ways to get rid of it without destroying an industry. Narrow your focus Japan.
 

Ericb

New member
Sep 26, 2006
368
0
0
ThrobbingEgo said:
Didn't Neil Gaiman write an essay on more or less this exact subject matter?

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html

Oh, right. He did.
I really believe the rationale Gaiman put forward in his response is important to this discussion.

And like him, I'm not at all for child pornography, but the way this bill is exporessed, it will do more harm than any possible good.

Censoring art is rarely if ever a wise measure for anything. And this trend of governments to assume the job of parenting is an even less wise one.

Some stuff the japanese anime inddustry produces is truly disgusting, but freedom of speech isn't only about the stuff *you* approve of. That's something most people forget very easily.
 

LCP

New member
Dec 24, 2008
683
0
0
This law makes me smile. Specially the comment the governor made, I agree wholeheartedly with it.

I disagree with censoring everything for everyone tho... however, that pedophilic crap is disgusting. Should be gone with.
 

loomis

New member
Dec 2, 2010
41
0
0
I've always liked Japanese animation for being free of censorship even though some times it gets taken advantage of. Under this law though none of my favorite shows and movies would never have been made; Ghost in the shell, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Macross Plus, Ninja Scroll.

I'm afraid of it being going like the 80's cartoons when I used to watch He-man, Thundercats, and Ninja Turtles. After a lot of over protective parents said they were too violent the animation industry in north america has slowly evolved to just making things family friendly and neutered.

Studios are now restricted to just making shows like Spongebob Squarepants. Even if your a fan would you really want to be limited to just having to watch that one type of show every time you wanted to watch some thing.
 

ph0b0s123

New member
Jul 7, 2010
1,689
0
0
Druyn said:
Because I will tell you right now, usually I'm pro free speech and shit, especially when its just rampant fearmongering like whats going on with the VG Industry, but lolicon is some fucked up shit, and needs to end.
LCP said:
This law makes me smile. Specially the comment the governor made, I agree wholeheartedly with it.

I disagree with censoring everything for everyone tho... however, that pedophilic crap is disgusting. Should be gone with.
FOR THE LAST TIME THIS LAW DOES NOTHING ABOUT LOLICON!

Why do poeple on this thread not read the story or try to understand this law. Stuff that is already rated as porn is not part of this law. It only affects stuff that children can get hold of currently, by making it adults only depending on sexual or violent content (exactly like the Cali games law).

Otherwise I completely agree with your points. Loli / rape stuff should go or be decreased, but not at the cost of the rest of the industry. This is the worst of both worlds. Does not affect the stuff most find objectionable but does put controls on stuff that was not a problem until now. As I have said before if they really wanted to try and sort the loli problem without risking artistic freedom they should make a law saying that you can draw whatever you want, but if it is of undersage poeople you cannot make money of it or sell it. That would be a start....
 

rembrandtqeinstein

New member
Sep 4, 2009
2,173
0
0
You know what as much as I hate censorship I'm not against this. Now the producers will have to rely on a story and art direction rather than elaborate excuses for panty shots.
 

mitchell271

New member
Sep 3, 2010
1,457
0
0
This is the same bullshit that is coming for the Governator's mouth. It's to "protect the children" when "the children" are under the age of majority (ex. I'm 16. Am I a child? No. Can I think for myself and make rational decisions? Yes.) They want to restrict anything that might mess up a young child but that content is not made for them. Ratings boards exist for a reason. They rate manga, anime and video games so that people know what is in them and which age group is appropriate for.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
I have mixed opinions on this kind of thing. To be honest while I find a lot of "lolicon" to be distasteful, I am one of thoe who believe that when it comes to purely artistic works where there are no children actually involved (it's all pictures) no regulation should be involved. I DO understand the arguement about such works encouraging the behavior in actual deviants, but the problem is that when you extend things to this extent your limiting an entire area of expression. There are cases where something like child sex, or child abuse might be relevent to a given storyline, or part of a social or political criticism. You either have artistic freedom or you do not, there isn't a middle ground there.

Japan isn't the US, but it is one of our puppet nations, whether anyone likes it or not. We keep Japan under constant occupation, their self-rule being a touchy subject given that we pretty much use it as our major military base in the region, limit what kind of military forces the goverment can actually have (the SSDF is a huge joke compared to what the US stations there) and a lot of other things. Our principles however lead to us allowing a higher degree of self-rule than what most puppet nations enjoy. Apologies to those whom this might offend, but I feel the need to be blunt here.

The push on these grounds is doubtlessly connected to the battles we're seeing in the USA right now. You'll notice that internationally there are a LOT of censorship initiatives going on of one sort or another. Goverments always want more power, no matter how it's justified, and "protecting the children" is a good reason to attach to a power grab. Goverments under the USA's thumb, or acting in alliance with it (and thus having their moral standards watched) have an oppertunity for a power grab against civil liberties right now because they can always claim "hey, your doing it, why can't we? We're just doing the same things you are". I think the guys running these countries are better aware of the snowball effect than a lot of the people in the US are, and are kind of hoping it will start rolling.

Basically the US can't start screaming about human rights abuses, and civil liberties violations, and hop on a high horse with it's "world police" schtick if we are doing the same basic thing.


-

Hopefully some people have read this far and aren't seething mad about the above. I wanted to give a couple of examples of how so called "Lolicon" or in blunt terms, works of fiction involving underage sex can be a positive thing.

Typically when people think of "Lolicon" they think of situations with people or monsters forcing themselves on, or otherwise manipulating little children into sex acts. However stop and think about teen dramas like "American Pie" and "Porky's" which are all about kids growing up, and learning about life, and all the trouble these horny teenagers get into doing their thing. Then you've got TV shows like "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" where the lead character was like 15 or 16 (she hadn't yet graduated high school) when she was having sex with a centuries old vampire who was physically like 30 years old (and this was a key plot point of the series due to the curse that was on him). This is to say nothing of classic works of science fiction like Piers Anthony's "Bio Of A Space Tyrant" series where pretty much every taboo one can think of is violated by the series protaganist including incest, cannibalism, and pedophillia. Part of the point of the story is that the man who becomes the titular "Space Tyrant" does do all of these things, but there are some rather interesting extenuating circumstances. The story being presented as a sort of expose telling the tale and setting the record straight. Each book beginning with a list of "WTF" vices, and then the story documenting the truth of what actually happened, for example as a young boy he was trapped on a space craft full of refugees, all of the adults were killed by space pirates and the drifting children survived by eating their bodies when the supplies ran out (I kid you not, you'd have to read it).

This is to say nothing of the book "Lolita" itself from which the name comes from, which is a book people have periodically banned for decades, but due to the fact that it's socially relevent and does have redeeming artistic value means that such bans rarely stick for long in most civilized countries.

My general belief, which is not limited to Pedophilia, is that just because something is offensive and wrong, does not mean any discussion of it or portrayal of it should be banned, as even the most reprehensible thing can be a part of a positive work. The standards Japan has passed pretty much means that both Pedophile Hentai, and "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" are going to be illegal. I mean heck, in your typical pedophille hentai you've got sex with underage protaganists, in Buffy since Angel is dead it can be argued it's both a work of pedophille fiction, and necrophillia ... though I doubt many people ever bothered to think about it that much.
 

Chibz

New member
Sep 12, 2008
2,158
0
0
You know who should decide what's best? Me.

Mostly because I'm a sociopath who doesn't give a flying fuck about the safety of children.