Children not learning the lessons of failure

keyton777

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willard3 said:
theSovietConnection said:
This must all be relatively recent as well. I remember in kindergarten (only about 12-13 years ago) I got yelled at by my teacher because she didn't like the way I wrote the number two (for all its worth, I made the 2 look much like that one, as opposed to the cursive looking one she wanted)
I used to ALWAYS write the number 2 like that, without any thought to the many times I screwed it up. Then comes sixth grade, when everyone and their mom did the cursive one. So that's what I do now. :)

Yay peer pressure!
there were cursive numbers? wow, i guess i fell asleep during that one
 

FallenRainbows

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I can say I agree with Khell to mine was just a pessimistic post... And well I cannot top those comments so I will just say READ THEM AGAIN

And this is a really varied forum from mindless flaming to some of the funniest people I have ever met to the rarity of the internet... Educated, Rational, important discussions with points exceeding the general ignorance of the world. Congrats you, not you...or you. Maybe you
 

theSovietConnection

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willard3 said:
Scarecrow38 said:
The bigges warning sign of protection going WAY too far is this absolute crap ('scuse the French) about using different coloured inks! If a kid is going to be hurt by red instead of green writing then what the hell is the gene pool coming to? Children aren't bulls.... what on earth are people seriously thinking?
Hehe yeah. My middle school teachers always did that, and a couple high school teachers too.

Then you get to college and have professors bluntly tell you as they assign a research paper: "I will probably see very few A's on this paper. An A is given for an exceptionally well thought-out, original, and communicated argument. Most of you will probably get low B's or C's. It will look like I hemorrhaged on your paper when you get it back." (my Modern Civilization professor quite literally said this in a deadpan voice with absolutely no humor...I might have missed a couple words here or there.)

I really really want to see some of those coddled kids survive college.
As long as the parents turning the elementary and secondary school systems don't end up turning the colleges and universities into the same thing. I'd hate to see a bunch of kid's believing they are always right all the time come out of university. I don't even want to think about them getting into stuff like the medical profession.
 

Scarecrow38

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willard3 said:
Scarecrow38 said:
The bigges warning sign of protection going WAY too far is this absolute crap ('scuse the French) about using different coloured inks! If a kid is going to be hurt by red instead of green writing then what the hell is the gene pool coming to? Children aren't bulls.... what on earth are people seriously thinking?
Hehe yeah. My middle school teachers always did that, and a couple high school teachers too.

Then you get to college and have professors bluntly tell you as they assign a research paper: "I will probably see very few A's on this paper. An A is given for an exceptionally well thought-out, original, and communicated argument. Most of you will probably get low B's or C's. It will look like I hemorrhaged on your paper when you get it back." (my Modern Civilization professor quite literally said this in a deadpan voice with absolutely no humor...I might have missed a couple words here or there.)

I really really want to see some of those coddled kids survive college.
"It will look like I hemorrhaged on your paper when you get it back." That's probably the greatest way to express that I have ever heard. It's a win. I had a chemistry teacher alot like that. They're often the best teachers too.

Your'e right though about what'll happen when these kids hit college/ university. Instead of it being a slightly jagged ramp heading upwards it will be like a brick wall.
 

Hunde Des Krieg

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Graustein said:
On the one hand, treating them with almost infinite respect and giving them compliments on their answers, no matter how stupid, is a great boost to their self esteem
No, it's a big boost to their ego. If they are wrong, you should bloody well tell them.

The "possible cost" to the kid's motivation is nothing compared to the fact that if they are treated with infinite respect, they will start to think of themselves as infallible. It will raise a generation of assholes who don't know what "no" means.
Like the millenials? generation Y seems to be falling into that category.
 

Hunde Des Krieg

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Khell_Sennet said:
Here's the thing...

It began with the idea you couldn't spank your children. When a kid did something wrong, they would get a nice painful swat across their ass to let them KNOW they did wrong, and that when they do such, there is punishment. Pussified liberal douchebags took this away.

Then they put an end to the practice of "Failing" students. Someone who didn't meet the requirements for advancement used to be held back until they finally could meet said requirements. Thus, all high-school graduates would be comparable in skills and knowledge, and we had an educational standard we could bank on. Mentally deficient psychologists robbed us of this with the bullshit notion that holding a child back is worse for their development than pushing them forward into higher education well beyond their retarded little brains. Now, a high school diploma is worth nothing save proof that you sat in a crowded room five days a week for twelve/thirteen years.

Along comes the "Can't Say No" crowd, who whole-heartedly believe it's bad for a child to tell them no. Before this, you had two options for every query, Yes and No. This more than anything, robbed parents of their authority over their children. As a parent, your word is to be law, not a request. "Honey, please don't touch that" is NOT how to speak to a child. "No! Don't touch that Casey!" is the appropriate response. No, Don't, Stop, Forbid... An entire generation of children being raised with no concept of these words, it can't be good. New Age fuckwits with faith in tabloid psychology caused this one, may they rot in the nine layers of Baator for it.

Moving forward (in time, not progress), we hit the more recent trend of "Participation Trophies". The hard truth of the world is that Second Place is the First Looser. Life is not the Olympics, it does not grant Gold Silver and Bronze, there is Win or Lose, Pass or Fail. Most of the time, you get nothing for second place, less than nothing for being 34th in 100. But telling children that results matter more than effort, that victory is important, is "shattering" to their self esteem. You can't tell a child they lost, so trophies for everyone. The problems arising from this; first is that victory becomes meaningless, if you get a trophy for no effort, why bother trying? The second problem is that those losers who got participation rewards grow up thinking they should be rewarded every time they fail, and rewarded for every thing they do. This trend is the fault of spineless coaches and educators who felt it easier to give everyone some small prize than tell the losers that they are losers.

At least people can do things for themselves... Or they used to be able to. Now we have "helicopter parents" who assist and manage every aspect of their childrens' lives. If Johnny doesn't do his homework, mom will do it for him. If a coach doesn't give Stevie a place on the football team, dad will have some words with him. These kids grow up, and don't know how to do anything themselves. This is the parents' fault, no doubt about it. Creating a scene when their precious fucking snowflake doesn't get the entire world on a silver platter, may they all die of some horrid ass fungus.

So where does all this leave us? These children are the future employees of all the companies in our country. How can we let the baby boomers retire when the oncoming generation is so fucking useless? They have no education, can't even do simple math without a calculator or computer. They expect high pay for minimal work, and a reward every time they complete a simple task. You can't deny them anything or they'll quit, can't ask them to DO anything, or they'll quit. And the businesses are going to be in such short supply of workers, that they will actually have to hire these fucking wastes of skin.

If I could abort the entire upcoming generation, I would. It's a scary prospect that in less than thirty years, liberalist bullshit and hippie psychology have undone centuries of progress and social growth. And these children will raise their children in much the same manner. Idiocracy is not just a film, it's the future. Humanity is going straight to hell, and it's riding the short bus to get there.
As Angry and "loud" as that rant was I must say I agree with you wholeheartedly. I didn't become the respectful polite person I am by being coddled and preened my whole childhood. The whole thing those overly liberal techniques are predicated on is that they think people are inherintly(sp?) good, that kids automatically understand what is good and bad, but that's bullshit, kids don't know better.
 

Hunde Des Krieg

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rossatdi said:
Mr Garrison: What is five times two?
[No response from the class]
Mr Garrison: Now come on children, don't be shy, just give it your best shot.
[Clive raises his hand]
Clive: Twelve.
Mr Garrison: Okay, lets try to get an answer from someone who's not a complete retard.
I think it's clyde-but still funny.
 

SquirrelPants

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Those kinds of answers are NOTHING. Just today, I wrote a 3-page essay on the Compromise of 1850. I had no idea what it was, so I wrote about how it was a conspiracy to make genetically altered super-babies that could bite through steel, run at amazingly high speeds, and, among other things, explode on a specific point with the force of 77 nuclear bombs, with absolutely no repercussions other than the fact that the area in which the were is now gone. And they explode once they reach 17 years, 235 days, 32 minutes and 40-something seconds. It was awesome.
But the point is, I've gotten A's on History essays just as absurd as this one, in the same class and from the same teacher. They need to just tell people when they're wrong, honestly.
 

Sewblon

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The main purpose of self-esteem is pulling yourself up after you fail. In this situation self-esteem is useless. It is also basically teaching kids that what they are actually good or bad at doesn't matter, which they hopefully learn is false when they try to get into college and not when they apply for their first job. Example, I am home schooled which statistically means I am a better student than most children. I am studying math for the SAT but I still consider myself a mediocre mathematician, and I am fine with that fact.
 

Rolling Thunder

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I sure am glad none of this applies to Britain...unless my sojurn to the depths of Africa has resulted in the government selling off the education system to the Liberal Democrats. Which is entirely possible.
 

Valiance

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Khell_Sennet said:
I love you and I wholeheartedly agree.

Enjoy the downfall of America with me. Cheers.

People need to be smacked around a bit (not necessarily literally, but they need to learn that no one is perfect.)
 

Not Good

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You learn from your mistakes. And if there are no mistakes, there is no learning. Simple.
 

Cowabungaa

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Khell_Sennet said:
Modern society compared to our parents' time growing up makes me think that I'm comparing a retard to a normal kid. A normal kid will at some point, stick his finger in an electric socket. When he gets zapped, he will learn not to do that again. The retard however, will continually jab the socket until he either sets himself on fire, or shorts out the line and trips the breaker. No matter how many mistakes are made with raising children these days, it seems their parents and the kids themselves just cannot learn from it. Literally, the only hope for humanity now, is the slim chance that these increasingly stupid children grow up to be too dense to figure out sex, and thus remove themselves from the genepool.
Sad but o so true (same with your previous post btw, with the picture at the end, although I doubt what liberalisme has to do with it...o well). Especially the "Can't say No" thing worries me a LOT. Seeing 14 year old girls drinking themselfs flat, smoking. And their parents, o they know but "Well you can't stop kids!". Yes, yes you can damnit, you're letting your own daughter destroy herself, and the only thing you do is stand there, watch and look unaproving. Do you actually CARE about the future of your children?? I'm not saying that we should return to the 1950's and smack our kids around, but damn parents of today, show some fucking spine for once. There is nothing wrong with being firm.

PS: Sticking your finger in the socket usually means death for little kids :p
 

Cowabungaa

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Khell_Sennet said:
Assassinator said:
PS: Sticking your finger in the socket usually means death for little kids :p
Kweh? Didn't kill me. Nor my brother... Though I wish it had to the latter.
Hmmm, you're American? Don't you guys have different electrical sockets? A well I had something similair, we were grilling and I wanted to know if the plate was still hot: yes, yes it was dammit. Lesson: don't touch plates right after you grilled on them.