Children were separated from their parents at the border, US unable to find their parents, are they among those killed who were deported from the US?

[Iron]

So do what the CIA does in other countries but with less subtlety?

Makes no sense.
CIA can't muster troops, even military intelligence, the most they can do is clandestine operations (strike teams) and financing local groups. This suggestion is wiping organized crime in Mexico and allowing those people displaced by it to return home. It requires a large-scale, internationally legal (hence going through the Mexican government and the UN) operation and hopefully cooperative with the local military and police that aren't compromised.

 

[Buyetyen]

Makes no sense.
CIA can't muster troops, even military intelligence, the most they can do is clandestine operations (strike teams) and financing local groups. This suggestion is wiping organized crime in Mexico and allowing those people displaced by it to return home. It requires a large-scale, internationally legal (hence going through the Mexican government and the UN) operation and hopefully cooperative with the local military and police that aren't compromised.

I'm referring to extra-judicial murder as a method of enforcing a political outcome. Call me paranoid, but I'm not all that comfortable with a government being able to declare martial law in the name of violently putting down organized crime. That would be a failure state.

 

[Iron]

I'm referring to extra-judicial murder as a method of enforcing a political outcome. Call me paranoid, but I'm not all that comfortable with a government being able to declare martial law in the name of violently putting down organized crime. That would be a failure state.

Mexico is a failed state in several of its provinces, it has no control over them. Furthermore much of the security forces of Mexico are compromised, including the police and the military. It has been over 20 years of murdering any good person that refused to cooperate with the crime syndicates that landed the country in this predicament.

Imagine Duterte. Then imagine US marines helping him. Boom.

Of course, you'd have mothers weeping over their sons, even if their sons were murderers themselves.

 

[Buyetyen]

Mexico is a failed state in several of its provinces, it has no control over them. Furthermore much of the security forces of Mexico are compromised, including the police and the military. It has been over 20 years of murdering any good person that refused to cooperate with the crime syndicates that landed the country in this predicament.

Imagine Duterte. Then imagine US marines helping him. Boom.

Of course, you'd have mothers weeping over their sons, even if their sons were murderers themselves.

So you support extra-judicial slaughter, martial law, and violent dictatorship? Well, you are a Trump voter. Can't really say I'm shocked. My point stands though. You don't do yourself any favors by shitting on the CIA and then recommending their tactics but with less subterfuge.

 

[Iron]

So you support extra-judicial slaughter, martial law, and violent dictatorship? Well, you are a Trump voter. Can't really say I'm shocked. My point stands though. You don't get to ***** about the CIA and then claim moral superiority when your solution to difficult problems is to just put bullets in them.

tfw "trump supporter" became a slur
I'm not even eligible to vote in the US or an American
What does "Anti-terrorist operation, asked for by the Mexican government, sanctioned by the UN" screams of extra-judicial slaughter, martial law and violent dictatorships... I'll just hug all of the cartels until they get tired of murder and go home.

 

[Buyetyen]

tfw "trump supporter" became a slur
I'm not even eligible to vote in the US or an American

Could have sworn you said you voted for him in 2016 because he's "hilarious."

What does "Anti-terrorist operation, asked for by the Mexican government, sanctioned by the UN" screams of extra-judicial slaughter, martial law and violent dictatorships... I'll just hug all of the cartels until they get tired of murder and go home.

That's a lovely straw man, but it does nothing to address the fact that you agree with Duterte, a violent thug who encourage murder as a practical means of problem solving. And yes dude, if you're sending in the armed forces to shoot on sight, that is martial law and the executions are by definition extra-judicial because there was no trial.

 

[Iron]

Could have sworn you said you voted for him in 2016 because he's "hilarious."



That's a lovely straw man, but it does nothing to address the fact that you agree with Duterte, a violent thug who encourage murder as a practical means of problem solving. And yes dude, if you're sending in the armed forces to shoot on sight, that is martial law and the executions are by definition extra-judicial because there was no trial.

I rooted for Trump to win in 2016 but I couldn't even vote for him.
I don't think I agree with Dueterte. I gave him as an example of what would happen if this scenario would take place. Lots of dead narcos and junkies. Is it bad? Yeah, for the people that get shot.
You don't run trials when the criminals refuse to surrender their weapons. The entire process of catching the narcos will involve a lot of firefights. You don't have judges and juries running around firefights, these guys will sort it out after they disarm. God will sort out those that refused to disarm.

 

[Buyetyen]

I rooted for Trump to win in 2016 but I couldn't even vote for him.

I stand corrected.

I don't think I agree with Dueterte. I gave him as an example of what would happen if this scenario would take place. Lots of dead narcos and junkies. Is it bad? Yeah, for the people that get shot.

Which would also include a shitload of civilians, as has happened in the Phillippines. To say nothing of the retaliatory strike. If you escalate violence, they will too. And they're gonna be better at it than us.

You don't run trials when the criminals refuse to surrender their weapons. The entire process of catching the narcos will involve a lot of firefights. You don't have judges and juries running around firefights, these guys will sort it out after they disarm. God will sort out those that refused to disarm.

The man who has never fought in a war is the first one to call for one.

 

[Iron]

I stand corrected.



Which would also include a shitload of civilians, as has happened in the Phillippines. To say nothing of the retaliatory strike. If you escalate violence, they will too. And they're gonna be better at it than us.



The man who has never fought in a war is the first one to call for one.

I fought in wars. They can't retaliate if their organizations are dismantled and they're all either dead or awaiting trial.

 

[Buyetyen]

I fought in wars. They can't retaliate if their organizations are dismantled and they're all either dead or awaiting trial.

Oh? Which ones? Also, those are some serious if's. An actual martial struggle with the cartels would be a years-long bloodbath that would result in more death and economic hardship than if you had straight up done nothing.

 

[Iron]

Oh? Which ones? Also, those are some serious if's. An actual martial struggle with the cartels would be a years-long bloodbath that would result in more death and economic hardship than if you had straight up done nothing.

The cartels are limited in scope regarding the areas where they are able to operate freely. I assume the fighting will be limited to those areas as they retreat from urban zones (due to the police crackdown). This could end up as a low-level insurgency similar to Egypt getting its ass prickled continuously by the MB since 2014.

2012 Israeli operation in the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2014 Gaza War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Buyetyen]

The cartels are limited in scope regarding the areas where they are able to operate freely. I assume the fighting will be limited to those areas as they retreat from urban zones (due to the police crackdown). This could end up as a low-level insurgency similar to Egypt getting its ass prickled continuously by the MB since 2014.

2012 Israeli operation in the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2014 Gaza War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Seriously though, what wars are you a veteran of? Because it seems to me you didn't do any fighting in cities for counter-insurgency, nor were you in change of any of the decisions regarding the process of a military occupation. If you had, you'd know that those are about the ugliest conditions you can possibly fight in.

By the way, where are you from that you're so eager to see the cartels murdered en masse? Because if you're not actually living in a country directly effected by this problem, that further undermines the credibility of your idea.

 

[Iron]

Seriously though, what wars are you a veteran of? Because it seems to me you didn't do any fighting in cities for counter-insurgency, nor were you in change of any of the decisions regarding the process of a military occupation. If you had, you'd know that those are about the ugliest conditions you can possibly fight in.

You seem to know that " those are about the ugliest conditions you can possibly fight in."
What wars are you a veteran of?

By the way, where are you from that you're so eager to see the cartels murdered en masse? Because if you're not actually living in a country directly effected by this problem, that further undermines the credibility of your idea.

If you haven't figured where I'm from yet, I can't help you.

 

[Buyetyen]

You seem to know that " those are about the ugliest conditions you can possibly fight in."
What wars are you a veteran of?

If you haven't figured where I'm from yet, I can't help you.

So you never actually fought? You should have just admitted that rather than lie and pretend to be a veteran.

 

[Iron]

So you never actually fought?

What wars were you a veteran of? So does that mean you never actually fought?

You should have just admitted that rather than lie and pretend to be a veteran.

That's a big accusation, and very inappropriate.

 

[Buyetyen]

What wars were you a veteran of? So does that mean you never actually fought?

I never claimed to be a veteran. You did. And when asked to elaborate, you dodged. That's what makes you a liar.

That's a big accusation, and very inappropriate.

There's an easy way to prove me wrong.

 

[Houseman]

I never claimed to be a veteran. You did. That's what makes you a liar.

When did you prove that he was a liar?

All I see is that he won't explicitly reveal to you where he's from and what wars he's fought in.

 

[Iron]

When did you prove that he was a liar?

All I see is that he won't explicitly reveal to you where he's from and what wars he's fought in.

I literally linked two conflicts, and I have one confirmed.

 

[Buyetyen]

I literally linked two conflicts, and I have one confirmed.

You linked to 2 conflicts. You did not say that you served in the armed forces for those conflicts, you used them as an example of how you think a military occupation of Mexico would work.

 

[Iron]

You linked to 2 conflicts. You did not say that you served in the armed forces for those conflicts, you used them as an example of how you think a military occupation of Mexico would work.

No, not at all. I was certain that I was clear, it appears like it was the exact opposite. I participated in those two conflicts. They were not examples of how a military occupation of Mexico would work, not at all, far from it.