Cigarettes should be illegal.

[Nyaliva]

However, I hate the argument that everyone has a choice as to whether to kill themselves slowly because many start out in their teens and they don't know any better or find it too difficult to quit. You may tell them to suck it up but you won't know how hard it really is until you try it yourself.

Don't know any better? Starting in bloody elementary school you're being bombarded by how bad smoking is for you. Teenagers are not stupid little kids who don't realise that their actions have consequences. They're not brilliant, hindsight makes me roll my eyes at myself hard enough to dislodge something, but give them SOME credit man! They had a choice, they made it.

And FWIW I think most people understand how hard it is to quit. Part of the whole being bombarded by how bad smoking is for you thing- they mention health risks and how hard it is to quit.

Sorry, I should've been more specific with my wording. I meant they start smoking young, they keep smoking and it just becomes a part of their life. This is also what I meant when saying people don't always understand how hard it is to quit, after doing it for so long they either see no reason to or can't imagine life without it. They may hear the ads saying how bad smoking is but because they've been smoking for so long and they haven't yet experienced any of the negative effects, it's all just white noise. Heck, I usually tune out when an anti-smoking ad comes on and I like them, I think they're the best way available to get the point across.

And about being told from a young age how bad smoking is for you, it'd be a similar thing. Those that start out young are most often the types to either tune out/talk amongst themselves during those presentations at school or they would hear it and simply want to defy authority, thus start smoking. I know it's still very much a choice thing but I ultimately meant that younger people are often either less influenced by authority or influenced to specifically disobey authority, at the very least the ones who would consider taking up smoking at age 14.

 

[Conza]

Weed is less harmful than cigarettes. At least weed help people in a way. That and it's natural unlike the thousands of chemicals in the average cigarette. And in what way does a cigarette help anybody. If you know a way please tell me. But they should just ban them without hesitation.

Its nice in theory, so is banning alcohol, but they tried that in the US didn't they? And it didn't work? (Isn't that how NASCAR was formed? Talk about side effects). Once something is made legal, criminalising it, is different to legalising something that was previously always criminal.

I think go the other way, be pro-weed, legalise that, let the government have the tax revenue from that, same with prostitution, ect ect, use whatever you like, if it's happening now, and it doesn't really harm anyone, you may as well let it happen above board and tax it, you'll likely limit it anyway.

 

[Jfswift]

I dont feel that cigarettes are good for you, although, being a former smoker id have to say I did find them relaxing at times.

 

[Arakasi]

I neither drink alcohol nor smoke, however I do feel that cigarettes need to be banned, not alcohol.

This is primarily due to their addictive content, remove that, and I would have no problem (well, less of a problem) with them, but when people get hooked, it is a real societal, health and individual problem.

 

[Extragorey]

I dislike cigarettes as much as anyone, but who am I to tell people how to live their lives?

I do not wish to live in a nanny state, and neither should you.

Also, weed has potential harmful side effects in the same drunkenness has potential harmful side effects.

People do stupid things when drunk, so I can't imagine the number of 'heavy machinery' accidents caused by people who are high all the time.

Yeah, that.
I dont like smoking, people who smoke... stink. To put it bluntly. You don't notice it when you're around smoke but when you're not it hits you like a wall of gross.

But if people wanna do it then that's their choice.

I see this line of reasoning all the time, and I have to say... It's BS. Okay, it's cool in today's society to be all like "Freedom of speech yeah!" etc. etc.
But quite frankly, people do dumb things. They often need direction, so that they don't do dumb things quite as much.
Smoking, excessive drinking of alcohol, taking drugs... These are dumb things that people do.
By banning smoking, the government would send a message that smoking is bad. Which it is. People could still smoke if they really wanted, but they'd be doing it illegally and thus most would be discouraged from smoking.
Obviously I'm glossing over the details; if a government really banned smoking, they'd be well-advised to provide some sort of rehabilitation program for smokers to help them quit, and they might make that "Nicorette Stop Smoking Gum" sold more widely, among other things - but you get the picture.

 

[mrdude2010]

If this was 4chan, I would almost think this was a troll post. Too many unqualified statements. I agree that cigarettes are bad, but it's almost always more efficient to tax/regulate something rather than making it illegal.

 

[Treblaine]

2) Lethargy is not a problem if you have pain and are already going to be sitting around the house waiting for the pain to ease (or waiting to DIE, in the case of inoperable cancers). The increase in appetite is DEFINITELY not a problem for people that are dying, as they need all the food they can get. It's also not a problem for people with eating disorders if it helps them eat and keep their food down. Even if it were a problem, that'd be something for users to deal with themselves, like with tobacco users having to deal with the loss of weight generally associated with it.

4) Not quite. The law should always be fair and unbiased. That marijuana is illegal while alcohol is legal is massively hypocritical, and must be fixed if the justice system is to be, well, just. It's not so much a slippery slope as it is a call for fairness, though I'd agree that his wording was a little fallacious. I'd take out video games, but I'd leave in 'dangerous' activities that can actually kill you, like dirt biking, etc, which are demonstrably far worse than marijuana as far as direct risk goes, and should thus be illegal if marijuana is illegal.

Point 2 does not make the case that Cannabis should be freely distributed like coffee, but that is should be a controlled substance, so you have to go to a doctor to get a prescription who gives you a PRESCRIBED amount and it would be in pill form, purified to the active ingredient, not all the chemicals in Cannabis plant burned and inhaled. If a patient is in need of THC it must be administered in pill form where it has the analgesic and calming effect and less the high which many patients may not want and sick patients are likely to need a surgical operation. It is NOT helpful to have been inhaling smoke (any smoke) as it impedes the ability for wounds to heal, also how can you smoke in a hospital confined to bed when you cannot easilly pop outside.

The case for medical cannabis is the same as the case for medical opiates. It adds NOTHING to the case for its recreational use and is in fact a good argument AGAINST its recreational use.

People with severe injuries are given Opiates, that is no justification that heroine syringes should be sold in the local 7/11 to people who are NOT in mind destroying pain.

That is fair.

PS: remember, America TRIED to ban alcohol and the Gangsters took over. When they banned weed at around the same time, not such a bad problem. They ban what they can. Alcohol is incredibly hard to ban as you just have to leave any nutrient juice to ferment anaerobically and you've got some hooche. America bans what it can. Maybe the drug trade could be sabotaged by legalising marijuana (I use that term to describe cannabis with the intention of recreational use) but I don't see how crack cocaine or heroine can safely or fairly sold to even 21 year olds.

Well for one, I wasn't talking about smoking marijuana. OF FREAKING COURSE IT'S NOT HELPFUL TO INHALE SMOKE.

But I fail to see how medical use (when used safely, like by not smoking it) is an argument against recreational use.

PS: When they banned weed, the exact. Same. Problems. Happened. I should know, I live near Detroit, where around 70% of the murders in 2007 were related to illicit drugs, well over half of those related at least in part to marijuana. Similar stuff is happening in Mexico right now because of their war against marijuana and other drugs, with a lot of that crime being related to the import of those drugs into the US.

Marijuana prohibition is causing the same empowerment of criminals, the same crime, and the same death as alcohol prohibition did. Crack and other drugs weren't part of this discussion (from what I can see), and while I certainly think that they should be legalized as well, those aren't nearly as hypocritical for being illegal as marijuana is.

I personally imagine part of the reason that marijuana prohibition isn't seen in such a negative light is that most of the crime, most of the victims, and most of the imprisoned gang members are poor (and black), as opposed to the rich (white) mob members of the 30s. 30s criminals appear to us as smart yet dirty, compared to modern drug dealing thugs seeming brutish and uncivilized.

Marijuana (cannabis as recreational drug) should not be legalised JUST because there is a demand for it that is being fulfilled by criminal gangs, as that would justify anything no matter how horrible and destructive or irresponsible. If there was a demand for slaves, that is no reason to repeal the 13th Amendment.

Marijuana should be legalised as the harm of its legal distribution is so insignificant both by itself and especially relative to harm of an illegal unregulated drug trade that is so great.

Cocaine, Heroin and Meth are just too dangerous to allow to be sold (though clean needles should be made available and possession should be decriminalised) it is irresponsible to allow people to be sold a substance that is so likely to cause irreversible harm. The addiction rate is so high and the spiral so steep: that is, they need more and more of the drug at such a high rate in a very short time they need to overdose to get the high they crave. Even opiates that are administered by medical professionals need to be VERY carefully monitored as even then a cycle of unsustainable addiction is far too easy to fall into.

Ecstasy I also think should not be illegal and should be free to sale to all adults. It is not very addictive nor dangerous. Some people have an intolerance to the drug, but equally some people are allergic to peanuts yet in almost every bar in the world you'll find bowls of the peanuts being handed out for free. That's the science. The UK government was so disappointed that science didn't back up their moral prejudice to people getting high on Ecstasy Tablets as being harmful, that they fired their chief science adviser who told them the scientific evidence.

But a legalisation of the "safe" drugs must come simultaneously with an even harder crackdown on the "dangerous" drugs.

The drug trade suddenly losing half their business while the drugs enforcement now half half the workload, that is the prime opportunity to strike at these drug gangs who kidnap, kill and torture with impunity. Their networks must be smashed. There the war on drugs must be a REAL war. These drug "cartels" are extremely well armed and equipped, with military weapons, military tactics and ample supply, military force must be used against what has crossed the line from criminality to insurrection. Win over the cocaine and poppy farmers to grow cannabis legally and accountably and internment for those who refuse this generous offer.

But you can't legalise anything because it empowers criminals for it to remain illegal. Not when a criminal enterprise is inherently harmful, like people trafficking, which is a serious problem of kidnapping women and even small children to be forced into prostitution.

But to reiterate, simple possession of dangerous drugs should not be illegal though the drugs should be confiscated... if they don't cooperate with police. There aren't many things a heroin addict won't reveal to avoid having their fix taken away. Yeah, if they were smart they'd know if their dealer gets arrested they won't be able to get any more drugs... but the cravings are so bad you can't think that far ahead. Intel from the streets is vital, absolutely vital.

 

[Treblaine]

hey look i'm about to have a cigarette -puts cigarette in mouth and lights it- -puts up middle finger- DEAL WITH IT

If you want to huff irritants, don't let any of them come my way. I've stood down wind of a camp fire and gotten less smoke in my face as when I had to queue behind some smoker blowing smoke everywhere. He looked at me like I just asked to sleep with his wife when I discretely asked him not to do that as his tobacco smoke was irritating me. He used the "it's not going to kill you" excuse. Well I supposed if he spritzed me with tear-gas that wouldn't kill be either, but either way my eyes are bloodshot and watering.

PS: and do not just throw your used cigarette butt on the ground when you are done. I know it's incendiary, smelly and has tar oozing from the filter but that's your problem, should not be all of our littering problem. Carry around a metal box to extinguish and store it therein till you find a bin, but I've yet to meet a smoker who actually does that.

 

[Quiet Stranger]

What I wish was illegal is the ciggy companies putting in the bad shit into their cigarettes to make them addictive.

 

[Quiet Stranger]

hey look i'm about to have a cigarette -puts cigarette in mouth and lights it- -puts up middle finger- DEAL WITH IT

If you want to huff irritants, don't let any of them come my way. I've stood down wind of a camp fire and gotten less smoke in my face as when I had to queue behind some smoker blowing smoke everywhere. He looked at me like I just asked to sleep with his wife when I discretely asked him not to do that as his tobacco smoke was irritating me. He used the "it's not going to kill you" excuse. Well I supposed if he spritzed me with tear-gas that wouldn't kill be either, but either way my eyes are bloodshot and watering.

PS: and do not just throw your used cigarette butt on the ground when you are done. I know it's incendiary, smelly and has tar oozing from the filter but that's your problem, should not be all of our littering problem. Carry around a metal box to extinguish and store it therein till you find a bin, but I've yet to meet a smoker who actually does that.

I'm with ya on the last part, I see so many people just throw their butts out their car window 9you have an ash tray in there for a reason you moron!!) I fucking hate those people.

 

[Muspelheim]

PS: and do not just throw your used cigarette butt on the ground when you are done. I know it's incendiary, smelly and has tar oozing from the filter but that's your problem, should not be all of our littering problem. Carry around a metal box to extinguish and store it therein till you find a bin, but I've yet to meet a smoker who actually does that.

Is knocking the embers off and putting the butt back down in the pack until I find a bin (or a drain under extreme circumstances) well enough? It's my usual method, can't stand people leaving whole droves of butts wherever they go.

I also agree that you shouldn't be smoking when standing in a queue or in a poorly ventilated enviroment. It's one thing going down a street with plenty of space and air, but it's just rude when people are more or less stuck with being packed against you. It's easy as pie to just knock it off and save it for later.

 

[Quiet Stranger]

Well...hm...I'll see if there's anything that I can salvage from my original statement.

Other than disagreeing with your claim that obesity would skyrocket if weed was legalized, and disagreeing that just because the law currently is (and always has been) unfair that it isn't unconstitutionally and morally reprehensible and should be fixed to be balanced...

(Edit: to be clear, I'm arguing against complacency. If you require a license to own a dog but not to have children, there's a big problem. If you can drive a 4000 pound steel cage at 16 but have to be 18 or 21 to buy a gun, there's a problem. If you can be paid to star in porn or paid to be a stripper but can't be paid to be a prostitute, there's a big problem. All of these incongruities need to be fixed if we're to call ourselves a free or just nation, which I'd LIKE to see sometime during my life, and I consider weed being illegal while alcohol is legal to be one of these hurdles that needs to be put into the limelight)

I guess I pretty much concede. I would note that when I said the cigarettes were worse than weed, I meant Marlboros and the like. I can only guess that by "Native Red," you mean a cigar or something else that uses pure tobacco?

It's not so much a claim that obesity would sky rocket, so much as a belief based on very little data. It's not exactly a country known for choosing salad over bacon burger.

Oh don't get me wrong, the laws are most definitely fucked and need to be fixed. I was just shooting down the notion of fairness in the law. A man who is old enough to die for his country should damn well be allowed a beer.

But yes, Native Reds are a cigar, and yes, Marlboros are god awful for you. Tobacco isn't as bad for you as you may think, it's all the harmful chemicals that are added to it that are killing people. And that's what should be made illegal. How does somebody even get away with that?

I'm wondering that too (the last part) why are these companies allowed to put these terrible chemicals into the cigarette? Something should be done

 

[conanthegamer]

War on Cigarettes... Yea that will work. It's amazing how well it worked for alcohol and how well it is working for drugs. #Freedom

 

[DanDeFool]

That, and I'd wager a lot of drug use starts out as rebellion. Somehow, I don't think saying, "hey guys, let's go take some of this perfectly legal substance that will severely damage our health and won't get us in trouble in any way" has quite the same advertising appeal.

I wouldn't bet on it- that's how most of the cigarette smokers I know got started. By which I mean it's legal, they knew the health risks and just got into it to "rebel." I never understood that, it's not even like you get high off a cigarette... I swear the only reason for it was to piss off their parents, which is pretty pathetic when you think about it.

You know, I was starting to feel that this was a fairly weak point while I was writing it, and now I'm almost certain that it is. While having something be illegal probably makes abusing it feel somewhat more rebellious, as long as you're going against the advice and wishes of the authority figures in your life, doing drugs will probably always be a staple of "teen rebellion", regardless of legality issues.

Oh well. Can't fix stupid.

 

[Treblaine]

Big Snip

I'm sorry, but can you explain why one would think that giving people easier access to mind-altering substances is a good thing? It doesn't make sense to me. There are a lot of people out there who are refraining from causing severe damage to themselves and risking the lives and well-being of those around them, because drugs being illegal and risky to obtain keep them from seeking them out.

For that matter, the decriminalization of possession of dangerous drugs like coke and meth also baffles me. A cop takes away what a druggie is currently holding and just sends him on his way, and he just goes back home where the rest of his stash is waiting for him. And nothing ends up resolved.

I may just be a cynic, but I honestly don't understand how someone can say things like this, except in a hypothetical 'perfect world' situation.

You would start by reading this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.379481.14894494

The very thing you quoted me from.

Incredulity is not argument but a fallacy (which is precisely what "It doesn't make sense to me" is), the effect of marijuana are not as bad affect of the enforcement of laws banning it. How does eating a marijuana brownie endanger either them or the well-being of those around them? What is the problem with mind altering when so many innocuous things alter the mind. Being imprisoned for possession of marijuana is far worse for their life, health and wellbeing than if they'd just consumed it and followed all other laws. Same with ecstasy tablets, they are just not that dangerous nor addictive.

The cops gives the option of NOT confiscating dangerous drugs IF they turn temporary informant. I did make clear how important it is that the police get good human intel If addicts lie, THEN they go to prison. They couldn't plead the 5th amendment as it isn't a crime to buy or own dangerous drugs but they still have the right to remain silent. The point is the police don't have the time nor resources to imprison every addict. Nor is prison necessarily an appropriate place for drug addicts. The police can get really good, every time they catch a druggie with a stash, they can squeeze more intel out of them.

I thought it was obvious that imprisoning the MILLIONS of people addicted the dangerous drugs is an extremely foolish thing to do. They need to be persuaded to willingly enter sobriety programs. Forcing or coercing people into sobriety programs is starting from the worst possible position.

The people who did wrongs onto others are the dealers in dangerous drugs, THEY belong in prison.

 

[DanDeFool]

hey look i'm about to have a cigarette -puts cigarette in mouth and lights it- -puts up middle finger- DEAL WITH IT

If you want to huff irritants, don't let any of them come my way. I've stood down wind of a camp fire and gotten less smoke in my face as when I had to queue behind some smoker blowing smoke everywhere. He looked at me like I just asked to sleep with his wife when I discretely asked him not to do that as his tobacco smoke was irritating me. He used the "it's not going to kill you" excuse. Well I supposed if he spritzed me with tear-gas that wouldn't kill be either, but either way my eyes are bloodshot and watering.

PS: and do not just throw your used cigarette butt on the ground when you are done. I know it's incendiary, smelly and has tar oozing from the filter but that's your problem, should not be all of our littering problem. Carry around a metal box to extinguish and store it therein till you find a bin, but I've yet to meet a smoker who actually does that.

I'm with ya on the last part, I see so many people just throw their butts out their car window 9you have an ash tray in there for a reason you moron!!) I fucking hate those people.

Not to mention the fires. How many thousands of acres of pine forest have been destroyed because some douche threw their cigarette out the window on a hot summer day instead of disposing of it properly? Who knows, but I'll bet it's a lot.

 

[Treblaine]

PS: and do not just throw your used cigarette butt on the ground when you are done. I know it's incendiary, smelly and has tar oozing from the filter but that's your problem, should not be all of our littering problem. Carry around a metal box to extinguish and store it therein till you find a bin, but I've yet to meet a smoker who actually does that.

Is knocking the embers off and putting the butt back down in the pack until I find a bin (or a drain under extreme circumstances) well enough? It's my usual method, can't stand people leaving whole droves of butts wherever they go.

I also agree that you shouldn't be smoking when standing in a queue or in a poorly ventilated enviroment. It's one thing going down a street with plenty of space and air, but it's just rude when people are more or less stuck with being packed against you. It's easy as pie to just knock it off and save it for later.

Hmm, I suppose embers aren't a problem. Every person in a day emit as much small particulates as dandruff, skin cells, etc.

If only more would take the consideration to not litter their still smouldering fag-ends, I can understand the inherent dilemma as they have often no where to practically stub it out and it does emit an awful stench from the tar soaked filter that not even smokers like. Cigarette butts are still such a common form of litter, not to mention source of fires. I used to smoke, but I smoked a PIPE precisely because of this concern and never smoked in public.

I guess many jurisdictions wouldn't have banned smoking in public places if smokers had been more considerate, not smoking in close quarters like outdoor queuing or in a crowd nor littering so much. It would be impractical to enforce against smoking in "too close" a quarters or catching them in the act of littering.

 

[DanDeFool]

Big Snip

I'm sorry, but can you explain why one would think that giving people easier access to mind-altering substances is a good thing? It doesn't make sense to me. There are a lot of people out there who are refraining from causing severe damage to themselves and risking the lives and well-being of those around them, because drugs being illegal and risky to obtain keep them from seeking them out.

For that matter, the decriminalization of possession of dangerous drugs like coke and meth also baffles me. A cop takes away what a druggie is currently holding and just sends him on his way, and he just goes back home where the rest of his stash is waiting for him. And nothing ends up resolved.

I may just be a cynic, but I honestly don't understand how someone can say things like this, except in a hypothetical 'perfect world' situation.

You would start by reading this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.379481.14894494

The very thing you quoted me from.

Incredulity is not argument but a fallacy (which is precisely what "It doesn't make sense to me" is), the effect of marijuana are not as bad affect of the enforcement of laws banning it. How does eating a marijuana brownie endanger either them or the well-being of those around them? What is the problem with mind altering when so many innocuous things alter the mind. Being imprisoned for possession of marijuana is far worse for their life, health and wellbeing than if they'd just consumed it and followed all other laws. Same with ecstasy tablets, they are just not that dangerous nor addictive.

The cops gives the option of NOT confiscating dangerous drugs IF they turn temporary informant. I did make clear how important it is that the police get good human intel If addicts lie, THEN they go to prison. They couldn't plead the 5th amendment as it isn't a crime to buy or own dangerous drugs but they still have the right to remain silent. The point is the police don't have the time nor resources to imprison every addict. Nor is prison necessarily an appropriate place for drug addicts. The police can get really good, every time they catch a druggie with a stash, they can squeeze more intel out of them.

I thought it was obvious that imprisoning the MILLIONS of people addicted the dangerous drugs is an extremely foolish thing to do. They need to be persuaded to willingly enter sobriety programs. Forcing or coercing people into sobriety programs is starting from the worst possible position.

The people who did wrongs onto others are the dealers in dangerous drugs, THEY belong in prison.

Also, remember those "what's your anti-drug?" PSAs? I think those were among the best ones ever produced (not really saying much, but whatever), because they sort of made the point "hey kids, life is hard enough without having to deal with substance abuse on top of everything else".

Bottom line, the point Buretsu made about legality and risk keeping most people away from drugs is like when religious people say that without religion we'd all be murderers and rapists and thieves. There are a lot of other reasons besides "because its illegal" that keep people away from drugs, and I think it's those other reasons make the difference far more often than legality and personal danger.

 

[azel]

Ugh I don't like topics like this. I smoke and yeah I know its unhealthy fot me, but thats my choice.
Is second hand smoke dangerous to other people? Perhaps, but not nearly as much as some people are warning about. Still i'm always carefull not to smoke in crowded places or near people unless I have their permission. I think its rude to bother other people with my habbits.

I hope that did't sound to much like a rant.

 

[Vitagen]

I don't think cigarettes should be banned, as I am in favor of people having the right to engage in unhealthy habits that I do not myself engage in. After all, if the government bans smoking, then they may attack practices I do engage in, like drinking large soft drinks. Not that anyone would actually be crazy enough to . . .

Oh, wait.