Civilization IV: Colonization Called 'Morally Disturbing'

[SomeBritishDude]

...Was he high?

 

[Spacewolf]

another idiot whos just insulting games without knowing anything about them using small amounts of facts to denounce the game while also keeping any evidince to the contray firmly under the carpet,

 

[electric discordian]

And whilst were talking about this topic, decrying what happens when "whitey" reigns supreme, we must also spare a thought for the white farmers who were run from their homes or murdered by the Zimbabwe regime.

Colonization is a required part of history it led to where we are today.

If they release a slave trade simulator then he has a point but not in this case

Tell you what, buddy...when the general public (and by this I mostly mean so-called "white America") acknowledges the legacy of colonialism and slavery - be it just in general conversation outside the academic sphere, or in the content of a video game - then I'll be open to discussing the merits of a game about the plight of white farmers in Zimbabwe.

But honestly, from a gamer's perspective, that sounds pretty boring. Unless of course those farmers find a hidden cache of ASSAULT WEAPONS and get to go all Master Chief on those black bastards! Now that'd be EN-TER-TAIN-MENT!

I always find it hilarious when people want to dismiss racism or subjugation with one side of their mouth, then try to turn to tables and mention RARE instances of white disenfranchisement or subjugation out of the other side.

White people suffer from racism too! White people have been subjugated, too! Well no shit, and no one suggests otherwise, but looking at things from a global perspective, those instances are few and far between, and their lasting effects are mostly trivial if not altogether negligible (obviously not in the case of the Zimbabwean farmers).

So following this line of thinking, let's skip over any games that might address the atrocities of French colonialism in Haiti and have a game focusing on the plight of the woeful wealthy French who had to find a new home after being kicked out. It could be an epic tale of looking for a place to belong - kicked out of your home and culturally removed from the land of your ancestors. It would be downright heart wrenching!

I am not from White America I am from Britain who was one of the worst colonial powers in the world! I feel you are rather trivialising the plight of those who are suffering. To be honest I dont want to paint myself into a corner and sound even vaguely racist.

People are revolting to other people, it's swings and roundabouts it is a factor of the human condition and has little to do with race or national identity, it's down to money and the use of human life as a resource.

Having said all that its just a game, come back to me when they come up with virtual concentration camp.

 

[Drakey]

I have played the original Colonization too many days and nights to count. Many moons ago when it was almost 'underground' to have a strange game like Colonization on your computer to play. I found it interesting that even with the limitations of the game in general, just how honest it was about the colonization of what is now called the USA. The game of course said nothing about their (fun loving) canadian Neighbors to the north, but was straight forward about a couple of realities.

This game placed me a young teen (as I was at the time) into the possition to sit down and actually think about what I would do in some questionable situations. and not only what I would do, I also found out (sorta) how I would feel. Do I slay the natives, or preach at them to death? Do I cause domestic unrest and risk war (which was always HARD) with my englishman roots, or just continue jerkin around and failing to accomplish what was sitting waiting to happen. The inevitable.

Independence.

Its funny how if it really happened many moons ago, we are only to remember those that layed it on the line to have what we have now, and to never remember the crap we did to accomplish it.

I believe its called censorship. Makes things look pretty. Problem is, you need a reason for everything. If we arent to speak the truth of history (as best we can) then is history to be written as a lie?

Pink bunnies came and built us everything we need! YEAH!

Anyway, an updated version of this game is good blood for the young ones. Even the embarrasing parts of our past help us learn to steer into the future. Censorship got us NOWHERE. Except pink bunnies. They rock. Need more of them guys. Love 'em!

 

[RetiarySword]

Argh! Another critic with his head up his arse! There is only a link to the crap he is spewing if they make a bull-shit bridge to reach the other side, far, far away! In a way colonisation is a good thing! If colonisation didn't happen the US wouldn't be what it is today, or Australia! Things are quite underhanded when a new group of people move in, thats life, get used to it!

The resident evil 5 harrasing is going on too much as well! Thats where the dude decided to go, Africa, would you expect a bunch of middle class white peolpe walking around saying "Good day Sir!", as they lift there hat in acknowledgement?

The funny thing is, what about RE4? That was basicaly shooting the spanish! Even worse the plot of that game was as far from the RE true plot line than ever before!

 

[Skrapt]

The funny thing is, what about RE4? That was basicaly shooting the spanish! Even worse the plot of that game was as far from the RE true plot line than ever before!

Ah but you're forgetting they were white! Which makes turning them into mindless zombies completely fine!

OK, the above was sarcastic I'm not trying to plead that white people face just as much discrimination because they don't I'm trying to make a point that we are just way too politically correct.

 

[jthm]

Wait, I'm confused. It's morally offensive to colonize new lands in a birdseye view of a fictional version of the real world, but it's cool to hire, utilize, stab and rob a hooker in a fictional new york? Not that anything is wrong with GTA4 (I loves it myself) but if you're going to complain about the moral grounds on which a game falls, shouldn't you hop a more clearcut bandwagon game? Is Civ4 going to encourage me to go out and subjugate my neighbors?

I mean I played Overlord in which my fictional evil(hero) guy and his army of goblins went out and wreaked comic mischief and death upon the fantasy style inhabitants of a world. In concept isn't that just as immoral? Or what about shooting demons in doom? I mean they have a right to exist don't they? It's all well and good that I thwarted their invasion of Phobos, but by invading hell and killing them there, didn't I displace an indigenous people whose only crime was being related by species to the people who invaded a space colony I was on?
Where were your Objections when I played Pirates and sunk Spanish Galleons to steal the gold they stole from the people of south America? Or when I played red dead revolver and shot Indians and outlaws? We can't discount the millions of Goombas or Koopa Troopas I've slaughtered either. Those poor, poor Goombas. Is it their fault that a member of their government committed a crime? Come to think of it, I remember throwing bowser into Lava on numerous occasions. Does kidnapping really warrant the death penalty? By God these are all morally disturbing!

Worst of all I think is Pikmin, a series of game in which the player character (Olimar) invades a world, enslaves the local inhabitants and uses them to rebuild his ship and strip the planet of natural resources. In the second one he leads a team back to further enslave the locals and profit off of the resources of the planet, nevermind how many of the little local creatures are killed in the process! His efforts end up drastically changing the ecosystem by altering the food chain! Morally disturbing? I think so.

 

[HomeAliveIn45]

Worst of all I think is Pikmin, a series of game in which the player character (Olimar) invades a world, enslaves the local inhabitants and uses them to rebuild his ship and strip the planet of natural resources. In the second one he leads a team back to further enslave the locals and profit off of the resources of the planet, nevermind how many of the little local creatures are killed in the process! His efforts end up drastically changing the ecosystem by altering the food chain! Morally disturbing? I think so.

That's so true, we should start a society for the Protection of Pikmin Opressed by Olimar (PPOO).
Also, shouldn't this guy look at the games 'Europa Universalis'? One of the options given to a unit is to 'kill natives' when attempting to colonize new lands.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I think it'll be very interesting if one of a few possible endings happen:

1) The Native Americans take over.
2) The Americas decide to accept English/French/Dutch/Spanish rule. (It was a real possibility back in the day)
3) Islam, Buddhism or any of the other religions that were around take hold.

Now that would take a step away from "morally disturbing" and into "morally interesting".

And at least in Colo, you don't have nerve-stapling.

 

[Godheval]

This kind of statement is exactly what makes it so hard for we liberals interested in truth and justice to get our point across. When people bring up "White people suffer from racism too! White people have been subjugated, too!" they're not testing whether you are aware of those facts--they are testing whether your arguments are based on something noble and just.

And you just failed that test.

When you crash into a thread calling everyone names, well, what the hell do you really think you're doing? Nothing you've said is going to do anything but preach to the choir--and even some of us in the choir think you're talking bitter nonsense.

That is why Ben Fritz is a total moron. He doesn't even understand the game he's criticizing. I wonder if he thinks it's also horrible to make him take intelligence tests where he's forced to try and shove Eurocentric imperialist square pegs into defenseless, innocent round holes.

Oh really? I failed the test? Are you out of your mind? You REALLY think that when people downplay racism perpetrated by "white people" by saying that those same "white people" are also victims of racism, that their goal is to TEST whether or not others are truly in pursuit of truth and justice? Well, you accused me of calling people names even though I hadn't, but let me live up to that criticism now.

You, sir, are a douchebag - if you honestly believe the hogwash you wrote. The PURPOSE of citing racism against "white people" is to trivialize or at least dilute every other instance of racism, to "demonstrate" that it is not in any way uniquely felt by minorities. As if to say that white people also understand what minorities are "going through". And on that I call bullshit. NO white person understands the particulars of a non-white person's experience of discrimination, because there simply is no parallel. This is not to say that "white people" don't suffer, don't experience all sorts of injustices - I wouldn't dare make such a claim - but there is still a certain experience that they can and probably never will be able to internalize.

I am no obstacle to social liberalism. If anything, your comments are evidence of social liberalists' epidemic intellectual laziness. Perhaps they'll talk about the issues as a footnote, or with fad-like moral indignation, only to couch themselves in all the benefits of the very institutions they like to criticize as a hobby - you know, when there's nothing on TV.

Now, while there are those who cry racism or injustice at every turn, and indeed set up a sort of "cry wolf" scenario that can undermine the real battle against injustice, I am not one of those people. My criticism was of those who dismiss out of hand what Fritz had to say, as if it had no merit, or worse tried to justify colonialism in terms of "net gains". That is a far cry from what you're accusing me of...

I'd say more, but I really want to go back to my Chicken Noodle Soup... So maybe later.

 

[Robertbobby91]

For fuck sake, get over it.

As if every popular game in the last decade wasn't morally questionable?

 

[ND]

Having said all that its just a game, come back to me when they come up with virtual concentration camp.

I'd go for that. Sim Dachau would be a kick ass game. Political correctness is for pussies and neocons.

/signed

 

[BleachedBlind]

Completely ridiculous, but at least he's calling a game "morally disturbing" for something new instead of relying on the old standby's of chainsawing people, sex scenes, etc.

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

Oh shit guys, I played a lot of the Total War series, and ransacking and exterminated cities (when I had to) didn't make me feel bad at all...

I'M MORALLY DISTURBED! ;_;