Civilization IV: Colonization Called 'Morally Disturbing'

[Doug]

Hmm, whilst he does have a point, if we are going to that degree of realism, surely any game even mentioning space travel needs to include the US/USSR use of Nazi scientists after the war (some of whom were positively linked with the use of Jewish slave labour).

Problem is, virtually every human achievement can be linked to some awful event.

 

[UnterHund]

...surely any game even mentioning space travel needs to include the US/USSR use of Nazi scientists after the war (some of whom were positively linked with the use of Jewish slave labour).

THIS! (and don't forget the medical researches that were done back then, with horrible methods indeed, yet the knowledge gained was a solid base for further research(and hopefully used with more humane methods.))

Maybe this guy should team up with that funny woman that raged against RE5, they surely make up a formidable team. Don't want to propagandize my personal belief on that, because it surely would lead to being hit by the permaBanhammer.

UnterHund

 

[stompy]

Both sides have stated some very strong arguments for and against the point. I'm not smart enough, so I'm not going to intervene.

That said, I am going to lay this out here: colonisation benefited a lot people, but it also disadvantaged a lot of people as well. I think that the idea of 'net gains' isn't something that should be endorsed, simply because I don't believe that you cannot justify the suffering of one man by stating advancement for another. Again, I'm not going to get involved; just my ideas.

On topic, I would like to say the guy is over-reacting. He raises a valid concern, but forgets that this is just a video game. People aren't supposed to do this in real life, and most likely, they won't. Ever.

 

[Johnn Johnston]

People aren't supposed to do this in real life, and most likely, they won't. Ever.

It's more difficult to start colonising and creating an empire than the game makes it seem.

 

[stompy]

People aren't supposed to do this in real life, and most likely, they won't. Ever.

It's more difficult to start colonising and creating an empire than the game makes it seem.

Reinforcing the fact that people won't suddenly colonising the world after playing the game.

Actually, you reckon this guy would cause such a fuss if this was a movie? Hypocrisy at its best.

 

[wahi]

the videogames are bad routines that are now so common, remind of that darling little episode in postal(1 or 2 i forget) where there are a group of people protesting outside the videogame company's office going "games are bad, they make you mad" or some such... and then they take out guns and try to take out the CEO, who you have save.... morale of the story, its not the games, oh no, its the bloody people themselves who have complexes....

 

[Johnn Johnston]

Actually, you reckon this guy would cause such a fuss if this was a movie? Hypocrisy at its best.

How about the movie 'Mongol'? Or, for that matter, any movie that shows colonisation?

2001: A Space Oddessy made me sick. Colonising another planet? What a foul idea.

 

[Arbre]

I'm disapointed. Fritz had some good articles from time to time, but this is pure dogooger rubbish.
Or maybe someone should ban all games featuring, say, the Roman Empire. Did he say anything about Company of Heroes? You can play the Nazi, with the real flag (contrary to Wolfenstein).
Most amusing is... why is this guy's opinion suddenly so important?

Forgive me if this sounds like an obnoxious history lesson, but the lack of outrage over the game does make me feel like I have to explain myself... Throughout history, colonization regularly involved stealing, killing, abuse, deceit, and the exploitation or decimation of native people. Anybody with a shred of a moral concience who studies the history will be appalled. Whether itColonial_dominion_1700_1763_2 was British rule of India or slavery in Africa or Aboriginal children kidnapped and taken to Christian schools in Australia or the dislocation of Native Americans in the U.S., there were no positive colonization experiences.

Why people rarely cite the invasion of Palestine by Israël? Funny thing there.

 

[Mauller]

I'm sorry, I really hate the whole race card that is played in regards to anything these days. Everything is racist. If everybody continues to hold onto old grudges and stereotypes, there will never be any progress. Truth be told, white people have it worse. If there is anything that is even perceived as being racist and a white person is involved, all hell breaks loose. What if the lead character in RE5 were Japanese? How about Pakistani? Would there be as much controversy?

 

[Arbre]

I'm sorry, I really hate the whole race card that is played in regards to anything these days. Everything is racist. If everybody continues to hold onto old grudges and stereotypes, there will never be any progress. Truth be told, white people have it worse. If there is anything that is even perceived as being racist and a white person is involved, all hell breaks loose. What if the lead character in RE5 were Japanese? How about Pakistani? Would there be as much controversy?

Yes, even a black dude killing black zombies, there still would be the ghost of colonization, working for the white, being sent by America, WASP, and all that. Which is not totally wrong either, there are certain values.

Maybe we could have, for once, a black dude killing white zombies? You know you couldn't have a muslim killing white zombies, neither the contrary.

 

[SilentHunter7]

He also decried the game's inherent racism, which he said is one of the underlying principles behind every colonization effort in human history. "The obvious comparison that springs to my mind would be if somebody released a game called Civilization IV: Confederacy, in which players have to 'lead a proud people to defend their values and traditions against their oppressive neighbors to the north,'" he said. Such a game may not require players to own and abuse slaves, but defense of the Confederacy is by default a defense of slavery, he claimed.

LOL WUT?!

That paragraph is both the funniest and saddest thing I ever read.

I'm still not entirely sure how he came to the conclusion that Civ supports slavery. "Civ supports colonization which somehow supports the confederacy, which supports slavery. Therefore Civ supports slavery."

That's one hell of a projection. Forget the PowerPoint slides, this guy can advertise on the Moon.

If I were to project equally as hard, I could say that George Bush Mr. Fritz doesn't like black people. Because he thinks the Union was in the wrong, because he views the South as a colonized probably by the North. Therefore South=Good, North=Bad, South didnt like Black People, so neither does he.

 

[Adaephon]

In his first line Fritz states that he thinks that this game celebrates colonialism, that's the part I'm really angry about. Just because Sid Meier acknowledges that certain historical facts happened and lets you do them doesn't mean he celebrates them(if he did celebrate it he'd show king Donnacona of the Huronian nation getting down on his knees and begging the french to take his stuff so he could start an ethnic cleansing, or show how the people of Mysore celebrated the death of Tipoo and the arrival of the British, but he doesn't). Also, why this game of all of them? Considering every other Civilization game, plus the newest Age of Empire game have all been about or involving colonialism,hell even Age of Mythology sort of had colonialism in it, why pick on this one in particular? But whatever, I disagree with him.

 

[Darkmantle]

I think if people are going to complain about RE:5, they should be complaining about this. That's all there is too it, colonization is MORE exploitive than RE:5 ever was, I don't see how this has passed by unannounced