Clarification needed: Why do women LOVE Twilight?

Echo3Delta

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mike1921 said:
oddr didn't lower males to animals, he/she lowered everyone to animals, we're just animals capable of morals. Which need reasons behind them otherwise we shouldn't.

He's not wrong.

STDs could be tested in America at least and you and your partner could know, and early term abortion(the kind that debatebly one would mind if it weren't for christianity, which also causes people to think sex is wrong) could be used as a last resort. Kinda makes casual sex risky since STDs(reason would be easier for you to think up than me to explain) and people could not test if they're pregnant till it's too late or be against all abortion(which I see as insane as being against all birth control) but as far as people who trust each other, they don't need to worry about anything if they're smart. Also, I'm an accident to.
Not bad, mike1921. When I said, "us men," I was referring to all of humanity (you know, the old-fashioned usage of "men"), but I can see from where the confusion came. And be careful with your generalizations. I don't think casual sex is wrong because I'm a Christian. I think it's wrong because of my experiences, listed in my post you quoted. I'm also not against abortion because I'm Christian. I'm against it because the 5th Amendment states, "No person shall [...] be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law [...]" For a good synopsis of my full argument against abortion, you can see the thread, "Abortion Doughnuts?" I don't use any religion in that post either.

You see, my morals HAVE reasons behind them. I learned very quickly that it's easy to argue against the Bible, especially the Old Testament (I'll cut your argument down myself, if you use that as a source). So I don't argue from religion unless I'm arguing about religion.

All in all though, good post, and I see your point. You obviously think it's an acceptable risk, and you seem to have an understanding of how to lessen it. As long as you accept the consequences, nothing I say will change your behavior. Good luck, and watch out for AIDS. I hear it's brutal...
 

WolfThomas

Man must have a code.
Dec 21, 2007
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Bulletinmybrain said:
Bryn: What if they still have sex often?

This what I think of the song: "So God damn easy to write this, you make it spill off the page."

It actually fits quite well don't you think?
Also I thought they lacked sexual urges, so not only may they not be able to do it, but really why would they want to. Its blood vampires want.

"Blood! It's your new leg of lamb, your new champagne, your new fucking heroin!" - Smiling Jack
 

mike1921

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Echo3Delta said:
mike1921 said:
oddr didn't lower males to animals, he/she lowered everyone to animals, we're just animals capable of morals. Which need reasons behind them otherwise we shouldn't.

He's not wrong.

STDs could be tested in America at least and you and your partner could know, and early term abortion(the kind that debatebly one would mind if it weren't for christianity, which also causes people to think sex is wrong) could be used as a last resort. Kinda makes casual sex risky since STDs(reason would be easier for you to think up than me to explain) and people could not test if they're pregnant till it's too late or be against all abortion(which I see as insane as being against all birth control) but as far as people who trust each other, they don't need to worry about anything if they're smart. Also, I'm an accident to.
Not bad, mike1921. When I said, "us men," I was referring to all of humanity (you know, the old-fashioned usage of "men"), but I can see from where the confusion came. And be careful with your generalizations. I don't think casual sex is wrong because I'm a Christian. I think it's wrong because of my experiences, listed in my post you quoted. I'm also not against abortion because I'm Christian. I'm against it because the 5th Amendment states, "No person shall [...] be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law [...]" For a good synopsis of my full argument against abortion, you can see the thread, "Abortion Doughnuts?" I don't use any religion in that post either.

You see, my morals HAVE reasons behind them. I learned very quickly that it's easy to argue against the Bible, especially the Old Testament (I'll cut your argument down myself, if you use that as a source). So I don't argue from religion unless I'm arguing about religion.

All in all though, good post, and I see your point. You obviously think it's an acceptable risk, and you seem to have an understanding of how to lessen it. As long as you accept the consequences, nothing I say will change your behavior. Good luck, and watch out for AIDS. I hear it's brutal...
Ahh, I hate that use for the word men. Most people either think casual sex and the like is wrong because their parents told them and they never really thought about it or religion and the first one stems from religion. By the way, if you consider a 1-3 month old fetus a person you barely need to mention the constitution thing, it was a pretty original idea though . I don't see why no one responded why you thought a fetus was a person (technically they're not because of a technicality if dictionary.com is reliable, but your arguement is based on a technicality so you should be fine with that) in the doughnuts

Good. I'd really hate to deal with someone who have no reason behind their morals in a conversation like this. They'd feel that they were right and I'm an idiot and I'd know that they're an idiot who I can't take joy from defeating because of the extent to their idiocy.

I know how to make it next to nothing. The extent of my precautions weren't in that post, the odds of me getting aids or worse, paying child support (I refuse to pay if it's not my girlfriend who asked me, and told me before hand she wasn't getting an abortion. Because then it would've been out of my weakness. She lies I'd rather go to jail and get butt-raped then pay a penny) will be so low they'll be statistically irrelevant.
 

Alex_P

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Mar 27, 2008
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Echo3Delta said:
You and Alex both seem to agree that worrying about sex is evidence of some abnormal insecurity. I can't believe I'm explaining this to (presumably) grown men, but CONDOMS DON'T WORK. A little fun fact: I'm a U.S. Marine. Normally I wouldn't advertise that, but that gives you an idea of the kind of people I hang out with, and boy do I hear some stories. I know a guy who's had a hard probe shoved up his dick, because he was scared to death of STDs after a drunken one-night-stand and made the mistake of going to the free clinic to get tested. I know a guy who's had an unplanned daughter that he was not ready for. He was wearing a condom. She was on birth control. Now he's on active duty, cause he couldn't support his new family being only a reservist. And I myself was an unplanned child. Being raised by a single mom for 18 years, never once meeting my dad, and constantly flirting with the poverty line have taught me (would you believe it?) that sex is something to be taken seriously.

You children (I don't care if you're 35 - your views are those of adolescents) are everything that's wrong with America, and I tire of your company.
Enh, don't lump me in with him. I didn't say anything about "animalistic urges", for example.

Twilight is about adolescent sexual insecurity. Adolescent social insecurity, too, to some extent. The kind of sexual insecurity depicted in Twilight is specifically adolescent sexual insecurity: not "What if I get herpes?" or "What if we end up with another mouth to feed?" or "What if my partner is screwing someone else on the side?" but "Am I ready? Do I love him? What if I'm not ready?" -- typical teenage sexual questioning. That's why it's classed as "young adult" fiction. It's quintessentially high-school -- I mean, it is a story about a high-school girl, after all!

This isn't nearly as much of an attack as you're making it out to be. YA fiction fills a niche. What's so damn bad about actually recognizing that?

...

And, yes, Twilight offers sexual wish-fulfillment for its author and many readers. It's kinda like Gor in that respect.

And, like Gor, there's nothing inherently wrong with reading it for fun.

But, also like Gor, there is something fucked-up about taking Twilight's take on sex and relationships and turning it into an ideal. That's where the fandom gets screwed-up and stupid.

-- Alex
 

mike1921

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And, yes, Twilight offers sexual wish-fulfillment for its author and many readers
So does rape porn....well, change "readers" to "watchers" and author to "whoever filmed it (probably)" The only difference is I don't show you rape porn and say it's art and the filmer is a genious and promote it to people as anything other than something to masturbate to, twilight fans promote twilight as a great book. Thus, either the fans are even more idiotic or you're wrong, either way I win (I enjoy proving people wrong) but I'd prefer the former since the fans are idiots and the more idiotic they are the better I feel.
 

SovietSecrets

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Nov 16, 2008
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp3eDnwESG8

Me and my friend kind of discuss the book and why its bad. The reasons given mostly agree with all of yours.
 

Vuzzmop

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Nov 25, 2008
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It appeals to teenage girls with an idealised romance story about vampire abstinance porn. What more is there to say? Its the young equivalent of Mills&Boon.
 

Mookie_Magnus

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george144 said:
I haven't really heard much about twilight, though I do know that the author has apparently never fully watched a horror movie finding them too horrible, so I assume its crap.If I was a vampire I'd go around killing and torturing people for fun, not swooning about over some prepubescent girl (isn't he about 100 years old because that just makes it even more creepy)
He's supposedly seventeen forever..otherwise all those high school girls would be eternally illegal for him.
Also, the book's characters are 1-dimensional and the perfect example of Mary-Sues, meaning that they are 'perfect' in the sense that they lack negative personality traits.


One thing I like about high-school girls, they keep getting older I stay the same age.
 
Nov 6, 2008
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(my name IS a lie but still)

I don't understand what's so encaptivating about Twilight ether - it just is. Maybe the fact Edward isN'T perfect helps - if he was perfect he wouldn't cock up so many times. i think it must bethe fact that he thinks he's damned, but still wants to be good, he wants nothing more that to kill Bella (And i agree with you aboutthe acting in that case - Rob Pattinson though did an awesoem job) and subsequently everyone else in the biology class but is desprate not to be evil, he rejects the physical pain and even falls in love with her. and he wont change her because he CAN'T take away her soul - he'd rather be in burning agony than: a) be apart from her OR b) be selfish and ruin her life.

Edward isn't perfect - but even if he was some gargoil quasimodo we'd still love him. because he has one of the purest and most beautiful souls ever to be bestoed onto this planet . . . albeit fictisious.
 

The Overmatt

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Oct 4, 2008
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Here's my 2 cents as a male who tried to read the series at the request of his then-girlfriend (got up to about halfway through book 2 and just couldn't take it anymore).

I really didn't like the books, and my reasons for not liking it have been echoed by many on here already. Namely:

1. The writing style is borderline atrocious. It reads like bad fanfiction, except it's bad fanfiction that someone took a thesaurus to and tried to dress up with as many romantic-sounding words as possible.

2. The characters are the definitions of flat and unimaginatave. Nobody has any depth, everyone's wooden.

3. Meyer takes established things that, be they original or not, are at the very core of vampire fiction, and proceeds to toss them out the window so they don't "influence her creative vision." So what does being a vampire entail in her world? Basically you're fucking Superman. Tons of powers, you live forever, and the only consequences are that you "sparkle" in the sunlight.

4. The vampires sparkle in the sunlight. Honestly, I don't care if people think this is her "taking things in a new direction," this just doesn't sit well with me.

5. I actually am kind of afraid of the message that a lot of pre-teens might get from these books (and I'm even saying this as a gamer). You have tons of girls reading a story about how a) this girl is pretty ready and willing to give up her entire life as it is simply to be with this guy, and b) the guy basically bends to her every whim in the name of his "love" for her. Regarding the last point, guys have a hard enough time finding a date (I'm generalizing of course) without having to compete with some "perfect guy" that these girls might grow up adhering to the image of. Then again, maybe they'll grow out of it. I dunno.

However, all this being said, I do understand why a lot of women like it. It's pure escapist, romantic fantasy, one where everything works out for the "perfect" couple that was "meant to be together." It's like a romantic comedy or a Disney romance, only the vampires make it more "exotic."

And finally, with regards to this whole debate, I truly think the underlying problem present is the legions of fangirls. Honestly, if this book wasn't so popular, I and just about anyone else exposed to it would just go "meh, that book kinda sucked" and just be on our way. However, it's become such a fad that God help you if you tell a girl that's read the series that you don't like it (again I'm generalizing). It's kinda like why everyone hates on Halo so badly, or why the anti-gaming lobbyists target Grand Theft Auto: because it's popular.
 

Screamarie

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Honestly, I don't understand it either. This opinion is from a woman, so either this makes this post all the more important or it could very well mean that I have some form of feminine defiency, but I don't understand Twilight either.

I'll admit that I have not read the books and do not intend to watch the movie, but that's simply because I do not understand the hype. While I agree that Edward Cullen is very hot and I can tend to find the whole vampire lover thing intriuging, from what I've heard of the series it's pages and pages of nothing but talking and angst.

While every plot needs a little drama, every romance needs a little heart break, honestly I find the description of the Twilight books to remind me of my days at fanfiction.net when I was 13. No offense necessarily meant to the writer but the plot doesn't seem very evolved. I was told from a friend that the girl, Bella?, is immediately ready to throw away her life to be with her vampiric lover and while I understand high school girls are known to do just about anything to be with the one they "love" I find it rather troubling that she is so eager to essentially kill herself if only to be with a person she's just met.

Which brings up another point, Bella is HIGHSCHOOL aged, meaning that she is not very much in control of her hormones or thinking rationally, so I have to find her "love" very base and more along the lines of intense infatuation and possibly obession.

I've gone on to long and I apologize. I sometimes ramble. In short, I just don't see how anyone could find the Twilight series in any way speaking of true romance and that's before anyone even really invites the whole vampire aspect.
 

llamastorm.games

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Apr 10, 2008
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My girlfriend has watched the film something like 13 times at last count and i still dont get the attraction, she sits and stares at "the hot one" for an hour and a half.
She's making me watch it next time i go round to her house, oh what fun i will have while my girlfriend sits and dribbles over some tooty anaemic kid whilst i slowly drown in the moody fuckers dullness.
 

Dommyboy

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meatloaf231 said:
Because Edward is "perfect." That's all there is to it. It's personality/description word-porn.

And that movie about recycling and tits? Make it. I would watch that.
Why all this extra discussion in this thread. The answer was posted on the first post. Women love Edward Cullen.
 

IronDuke

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Echo3Delta said:
Normally, I'd dismiss you as useless, but I'm feeling confrontational so I'll bite.

This is a prime example of a pretty intriguing trend I've noticed among liberals/hippies/16-year-old internet users: the need to lower us men to the status of animals. Your absolute crippling dread of accepting any responsibility for your actions is such that you hide behind the manufactured excuse that we are not above our animal instincts. I can see how this is a comforting way to look at the world. The absence of right and wrong brings with it the absence of consequence. And if you yearn for purpose, you can take up environmentalism and drum yourself into a fever of self-righteousness and hatred for mankind (from which stems these nasty little rules of society that you so fear).
1. I am none of the three things you listed (way to take your own advice and not make generalisations!)

2. It's not a need to lower us to animals, it's simply a fact that we are animals and have animal instincts-if this is something you disagree with then you really don't have any ground to stand on.

3. I am very responsible, I've no need to proove this to you. How is my "manufactured excuse" any more manufactured than your manufactured ideals and beliefs?

4. I despise filthy hippies and things like PETA. My purpose in life is to enjoy myself as much as I can without being a total dick, and I'm doing alright.

5. I don't have any fear of societies rules and I abide by them, and if I come off as hating mankind it has nothing to do with the environment-though I dont recall saying I hated mankind-it has more to do with most people being out for their own gains.

Echo3Delta said:
Unfortunately, this being the real world where actions have consequences, and us being forced to live with people such as you, I'm compelled to set you straight.

You and Alex both seem to agree that worrying about sex is evidence of some abnormal insecurity. I can't believe I'm explaining this to (presumably) grown men, but CONDOMS DON'T WORK. A little fun fact: I'm a U.S. Marine. Normally I wouldn't advertise that, but that gives you an idea of the kind of people I hang out with, and boy do I hear some stories. I know a guy who's had a hard probe shoved up his dick, because he was scared to death of STDs after a drunken one-night-stand and made the mistake of going to the free clinic to get tested. I know a guy who's had an unplanned daughter that he was not ready for. He was wearing a condom. She was on birth control. Now he's on active duty, cause he couldn't support his new family being only a reservist. And I myself was an unplanned child. Being raised by a single mom for 18 years, never once meeting my dad, and constantly flirting with the poverty line have taught me (would you believe it?) that sex is something to be taken seriously.

You children (I don't care if you're 35 - your views are those of adolescents) are everything that's wrong with America, and I tire of your company.
6. I am already straight.

7. Condoms work in almost all cases. 98% I think is about right, and I'm sure the 2% has a fair portion of idiots adding to it (using expired condoms etc.). 98% is not a small percentage. This small chance should not stop you enjoying yourself. I truely believe that if you are afraid of sex WITH a condom, then you have an irrational fear. Of that 2% of condoms that do not work you also must take into account that unless you only screw scummy women, STD's are not a huge risk anyhow-though I always use a condom anyway.

8. First example chose to get a stick put up his urethra because he had a great fear of STD's; He chose to get this done, could he not have had a blood test for a few bucks more? In fact, this should be more advice to you-avoid the god damn penal probe by not worrying irrationally about STD's when you have worn a condom....

9. If your friend was not ready for a daughter perhaps he should have invested in an abortion, and if he believes that they are wrong, also drop his silly sense of morals. I struggle to believe his little guys managed to make it through two very safe forms of birth control, but in any event it sounds like they didn't want a baby and they are fucking idiots for having it when they couldn't support it.

10. Sex doesn't mean you are poor. My parents also split up and my mum took custody of me-sex didnt do it, my parents not being in love did it-theres your problem, not sex.

Now, thanks for an interesting rant and lecture, but what you said doesn't apply to me at all. I live in the real world, where most people aren't afraid of sex, and they all do it regularly and for the most part without consequence. I'm not saying all young girls should go out and have sex to be normal, but I don't believe it is something to be scared of and it is an irrational fear. Just like fear of bungie jumping unless a freak accident occurs no adverse effects with become of it, and unlike bungie jumping-abortion and medication is always an option.
 

Helnurath

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Nov 27, 2008
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LEAVE EDWARD ALONE!

::sobs uncontrollably::

His girlfriend is a user, and just wants him for his special vampire powers.
 

Renikor

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Mar 23, 2009
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I wish I knew. Started out like this in my school:
Chick: WHEN ARE WE GETTING IN NEW MOON NOM NOM NOM
Librarian:Iunno come to think of it lemme order 200043535 copies of Twilight RIGHT NOW!
CHICK: WOO
We get the books, and a few days later my school looks kinda like this
"OMGAWSH DID YOU GO TO THE PARTZ0RZ WHERE ED IS LIKE WOOSH AND HIS BALLS START BREAKING PPLZ NECKZ?"
"OMG NO BUT ED IS LIKE SO HAWT ANYWAY"
"GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME UGH JACOB FOR THE WIN GIRLFRIEND!"
"OH NO YOU DIDNT!!"
Yup. Twilight is just something that makes the girls feel better about themselves.
 

caross73

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Oct 31, 2006
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Twilight takes a plain girl with a boring life (something 99.0% of all teenage girls can relate to whether its accurate or not), gives her an exciting boyfriend who can and will literally do anything for her, the perfect submissive friend (and protector), creates a manufactured conflict pitting them against the world, and in defeating this manufactured conflict, makes her beautiful, immortal, and gives her the perfect family.

Whats not for an adolescent girl to like?
 

ae86gamer

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Mar 10, 2009
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I dont like Twilight. Edward seems kinda d*uchey. And that whole have sex with a vampire is creepy.