Classy weapons

[RagnorakTres]

Your body. Kung Fu (good stuff, like Jackie Chan's soft style, not the strong styles that seem to be all the rage anymore) is extremely elegant as it adapts easily to almost any situation with any improvised weapon.

 

[eatenbyagrue]

The lightsaber. It is much more elegant than a clumsy blaster.

An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age

 

[PeterDawson]

.

Cane sword is my pick.

A cane sword is hardly classy, for a weapon with class ought not be concealed. More to the point, the cane sword is ineffective on defense as they lack a proper guard (and I assure you, the guard is necessary for most any defensive action involving a thrusting weapon), meaning they are best used in a cowardly ambush against a foe armed with a lesser weapon.

If one is going to go halway into such debauchery, I suggest they simply carry a small caliber gun instead - no use being a half coward when one can go all out and have better chances.

Plenty of sword canes have guards, actually. And concealment isn't the appeal, the appeal is it can double as something useful while still being a weapon. It even turns a handicap into an edge, as you're less likely to forget your cane than something else when walking the street. Plus even if you get a non-handguard version you still deflect blows by careful striking and avoiding deadlocks. Having a sharp edge for slashing is also probably a good idea as well as a sharp tip and blade that isn't too long, but then its a cane so it wouldn't be.

Because of the light weight of weapons like the sword cane (or small sword for that matter), the edge is generally sharpened only to dissuade one's opponent from grabbing the blade. While one could certainly cause a wound, the straight design of the blade combined with it's light weight means it would be difficult to deliver a lethal cut.

While some sword canes do possess a rudimentary guard that may prove at least marginally functional, it is hardly ideal. The hand guard exists for a number of reasons. Most obviously, it protects the hand from the opponent's weapon, but more importantly it provides a point of leverage. Your average parry or evelopment or any other movements where one attacks the blade or takes a blade relies on having this point of leverage in order to control the opponent's blade. At the guard, you have maximum leverage, meaning little effort is required to deflect a thrust or redirect a blade. While one can still accomplish this task with a small guard, the reslt is the margin or error is reduced leading to a much higher probability of failure. The basic parries against a thrust would still work, but attacks to a low line could handily result in a cut to the sword hand. Envelopments, binds and explulsions become more difficult to accomplish as the guard shrinks, and once it becomes smaller than the closed one risks injuring themselves in the process.

While the sword cane may be functional as a cane and better than nothing as a sword, it still is such a poorly concieved weapon that one could barely hope to actually win a fight with one against a trained sword armed foe.

Granted the sword cane still isn't much of a match for a real sword, especially if the guy using it is any good, but the sword cane was an invention in a time when guns had outphased swords so the odds of encountering one armed with a sword would be unlikely, nevermind one skilled with it. I would certainly think twice about messing with a guy if he had a rapier something though and I just had my cane blade.

 

[jasoncyrus]

Tbh guns are never elegant, takes no skill to shoot someone, any idiot can do it.

Swords and wrists blade/fist weapons however...now those take skill. Fist weapons not s much but more than a gun. Swords more but lose elegance points due to the blantant nature of the kill. Wrists blades however, require a considerable amount since it takes a lot skill to determine the proper timing to deploy your weapon and conceal it without anyone knowing, it alo takes skill to place it properly for maximum damage. And the elegance factor is immense because if done properly you can get quite far before anyone realises it was you.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Granted the sword cane still isn't much of a match for a real sword, especially if the guy using it is any good, but the sword cane was an invention in a time when guns had outphased swords so the odds of encountering one armed with a sword would be unlikely, nevermind one skilled with it. I would certainly think twice about messing with a guy if he had a rapier something though and I just had my cane blade.

Therein lies my point - the weapon is unsuited to a match against a peer and is therefore only useful when your foe is even more poorly armed, or in a cowardly ambush. Because of it's form, the function is inherently unsporting and therefore the weapon cannot be considered classy.

 

[Scarecrow38]

I'll go with none...

 

[PeterDawson]

Granted the sword cane still isn't much of a match for a real sword, especially if the guy using it is any good, but the sword cane was an invention in a time when guns had outphased swords so the odds of encountering one armed with a sword would be unlikely, nevermind one skilled with it. I would certainly think twice about messing with a guy if he had a rapier something though and I just had my cane blade.

Therein lies my point - the weapon is unsuited to a match against a peer and is therefore only useful when your foe is even more poorly armed, or in a cowardly ambush. Because of it's form, the function is inherently unsporting and therefore the weapon cannot be considered classy.

I disagree. First of all, its perfectly fine for a peer. An actual sword isn't a peer, its a superior. A skilled user could also take down a superiorly-armed foe with a gun or an actual sword if they had the skill. Weapon alone does not dictate the victor. Also, unsporting isn't class, class is about grace and style. The whisp of cold, silent steel can be much more graceful and stylish than some other methods.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Granted the sword cane still isn't much of a match for a real sword, especially if the guy using it is any good, but the sword cane was an invention in a time when guns had outphased swords so the odds of encountering one armed with a sword would be unlikely, nevermind one skilled with it. I would certainly think twice about messing with a guy if he had a rapier something though and I just had my cane blade.

Therein lies my point - the weapon is unsuited to a match against a peer and is therefore only useful when your foe is even more poorly armed, or in a cowardly ambush. Because of it's form, the function is inherently unsporting and therefore the weapon cannot be considered classy.

I disagree. First of all, its perfectly fine for a peer. An actual sword isn't a peer, its a superior. A skilled user could also take down a superiorly-armed foe with a gun or an actual sword if they had the skill. Weapon alone does not dictate the victor. Also, unsporting isn't class, class is about grace and style. The whisp of cold, silent steel can be much more graceful and stylish than some other methods.

Given that the cane is just a scabbard with a secondary and teritary purpose (that is concealing the true nature of the device and providing walking support if one desires), one must still examine the weapon as a sword, and therefore it must be judged among it's contemporary peers. The sword cane came into fashion long after the wearing of a sword was no longer common, about the same time when the small sword and Sabre would rise to prominance in duels and military action respectively. That the competing weapons are superior is beyond the point of this debate, the simple fact remains that because it is a sword its utility must be judged against other swords. Besides, if a proper sword isn't a peer of the sword cane, what is? The boot knife?

Second, to state that a skilled user can down a foe with superior weaponry is possible is to construct a straw man argument. Yes, a man with a sword may indeed fell a man with a shotgun, but in most any circumstance short of ambush a betting person would be well served siding with even an untrained man with a shotgun versus a well trained man with a sword of any sort.

And to the discussion of semantics - while an individuals interpretation of class may indeed vary, in the case of this discussion I suspect we are using the word "class" as an adjective, and the most fitting definition I can find (courtesy of dictionary.com) states: "Informal. of high quality, integrity, status, or style: class players on a mediocre team." In this discusssion, it would seem that integrity - that is adhering to moral and ethical principles, would indicate that a weapon that is most useful against the defensless could hardly qualify. While I will grant that there is some room for maneuver here in that one's own moral outlook can certainly allow for such action, I would suspect an average interpretation would indicate that such actions are unfair, unsporting and therefore lack integrity.

Besides, with a sword cane, there is little grace or style in the approach to combat. One's attack with a weapon is relegated to the simple thrust, and one's defensive (and options for attemping to confound a defense) are relegated to the feint, the beat and the basic parrys - the defficiencies in the design of the weapon make more complex actions to difficult to attempt with any degree of safety. This leads back to the opening point of my argument - that the design of the weapon lends itself not to honorable combat but that of either treacherous ambush or attacking a poorly armed foe. In my book, that means the sword cane is the weapon of the anachronistic thug.

 

[PeterDawson]

In my book, that means the sword cane is the weapon of the anachronistic thug.

To avoid this pointless back and forth I'm just going to sum up the key of this argument so we can stop this: I disagree, mainly because the sword cane can also be treated as a defensive weapon. Oh, and by equal I meant another sword cane. But yeah, we've hit the stumbling point in this argument so I'm going to chalk it up to opinion.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

To avoid this pointless back and forth I'm just going to sum up the key of this argument so we can stop this: I disagree, mainly because the sword cane can also be treated as a defensive weapon. Oh, and by equal I meant another sword cane. But yeah, we've hit the stumbling point in this argument so I'm going to chalk it up to opinion.

I'm willing to agree to that. I'll commend you for defending a sword rather than something even more vulger like a classic firearm or (heaven forbid) the Desert Eagle. We are both advocating a similar weapon from a similar time frame, so at least there's that.

 

[Christemo]

Sasukes Chokuto in Naruto. the 3rd coolest sword EVARR (2nd place goes to masamune, 1st to Frostmourne)

 

[Sphinx86]

Personally if your going classy, then it needs to be quick, simple and with a minimum of physical effort or gore.

Garotting someone takes time and effort and in the end your killing the guy with a wire around his neck pulled tight arms straining, seems more barbarian to me.

My vote goes either to the rapier, or small caliber pistol. Neither are going to spray blood all over the place and you can act cool and classy while using them.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Personally if your going classy, then it needs to be quick, simple and with a minimum of physical effort or gore.

Garotting someone takes time and effort and in the end your killing the guy with a wire around his neck pulled tight arms straining, seems more barbarian to me.

My vote goes either to the rapier, or small caliber pistol. Neither are going to spray blood all over the place and you can act cool and classy while using them.

I think everyone in the world confuses a rapier for a court sword. A rapier was quite large - five feet or so. A court sword is designed in the same way but was two feet shorter. The weapons used by the musketeers in "The Three Musketeers" movie by Disney for example more closely resembles a court sword than a rapier.

It doesn't help that most modern rapier replicas use a court sword styled blade. I've even seen a few that have a triangular blade - a feature not common until the small sword and epee (the non sport version of course)

 

[Christemo]

knife in CS.
Flash in CS (yes you CAN kill people with a flash if they are on 1 hp, in 1.6 CS smoke damaged 5, so u can try.)
playing pistolero on the tank.

 

[tsb247]

I would like to retract my previous statement and make my choice a spitfire mk. II fighter.

I want what he's using!

 

[Sphinx86]

Personally if your going classy, then it needs to be quick, simple and with a minimum of physical effort or gore.

Garotting someone takes time and effort and in the end your killing the guy with a wire around his neck pulled tight arms straining, seems more barbarian to me.

My vote goes either to the rapier, or small caliber pistol. Neither are going to spray blood all over the place and you can act cool and classy while using them.

I think everyone in the world confuses a rapier for a court sword. A rapier was quite large - five feet or so. A court sword is designed in the same way but was two feet shorter. The weapons used by the musketeers in "The Three Musketeers" movie by Disney for example more closely resembles a court sword than a rapier.

It doesn't help that most modern rapier replicas use a court sword styled blade. I've even seen a few that have a triangular blade - a feature not common until the small sword and epee (the non sport version of course)

I stand corrected - Court Sword it is. Though I was going off seeing the late stages of a (western) fencing tournament and the pics. But anything really that kills cleanly and quickly.

And also its not just the weapon that has to be classy but how you use it. Just taking a pistol and shooting someone until the clip is empty is yes going to kill, but isn't classy. One shot to heart with a small caliber on the other hand...

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I stand corrected - Court Sword it is. Though I was going off seeing the late stages of a (western) fencing tournament and the pics. But anything really that kills cleanly and quickly.

And also its not just the weapon that has to be classy but how you use it. Just taking a pistol and shooting someone until the clip is empty is yes going to kill, but isn't classy. One shot to heart with a small caliber on the other hand...

If it was a sport fencing tournament, then the options for weapon were Foil, Epee or Sabre. If the pace appeared fairly slow and defensive (and the weapon had a large hand guard) then you were seeing an Epee - a weapon that is a sharpened point away from being a dueling sword. If the action was brutally quick and involved a lot of cutting actions you like the Sabre. If the acton was quick and fluid but involved a lot of thrusting, then you favor the foil (which is itself based upon the court sword, in the crudest terms, the modern foil is a sporting device more than a sword and while it could certainly be lethal, most competative fencers use a blade that is far too flexible to use in a duel).

 

[Silver Khondji]

Definitely the garrotte wire.

 

[Roamin11]

Explosives, carfully placed and set off, it takes a certain kind of guy to cook up some home made C-3 and put it in some ones mail box and wait till they check it the next morning,

 

[Sphinx86]

I stand corrected - Court Sword it is. Though I was going off seeing the late stages of a (western) fencing tournament and the pics. But anything really that kills cleanly and quickly.

And also its not just the weapon that has to be classy but how you use it. Just taking a pistol and shooting someone until the clip is empty is yes going to kill, but isn't classy. One shot to heart with a small caliber on the other hand...

If it was a sport fencing tournament, then the options for weapon were Foil, Epee or Sabre. If the pace appeared fairly slow and defensive (and the weapon had a large hand guard) then you were seeing an Epee - a weapon that is a sharpened point away from being a dueling sword. If the action was brutally quick and involved a lot of cutting actions you like the Sabre. If the acton was quick and fluid but involved a lot of thrusting, then you favor the foil (which is itself based upon the court sword, in the crudest terms, the modern foil is a sporting device more than a sword and while it could certainly be lethal, most competative fencers use a blade that is far too flexible to use in a duel).

Pretty sure it was the Foil, all I positively remember was that they had pistol-grips.