Cleaning up Steam, your suggestions?

[Canadamus Prime]

I think all games that are in a buggy unplayable state should be purged from Steam immediately. And no game should be put on the Steam that isn't at least 80% complete and also should be play tested before being put on the storefront.

 

[ohnoitsabear]

The number one thing that Steam absolutely needs right now is fucking refunds. The current system of there is no official refund system but unofficially everybody gets one if they're willing to wait weeks for Valve's ludicrously slow tech support was bad back when you could at least be reasonably certain that every game that they sold on the service at least worked. Now that Valve is selling non-functioning games that are essentially scams, it's downright unacceptable. Just have a simple system where if you have less than a certain amount of time played for a game and have owned the game for less than a certain amount of time, you can get a refund, no questions asked. I mean Steam already keeps track of how much time you've played a game, although admittedly not very well. There is absolutely no reason why this basic level of consumer protection isn't in the largest digital games distributor.

Also, I take issue with the reporting Steam games thing. Yes, it is strictly better than letting those games run rampant, but the idea that Valve, a company with hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue from Steam, can't check if the games that they're selling contain fraud or child exploitation is fucking absurd. It is not the community's job to make sure that games being sold on Steam possess basic levels of functionality and aren't scams. That's you're job Valve, and you need to take responsibility for it like the big boys that you are.

Honestly, after all this shit from Steam, I'm finding myself getting more and more games from GoG. It's a way better service, and it's from a company that actually seems to give a shit about it's customers.

 

[Bombiz]

Whether you like the titles on Steam or not they have a right to be there. They pay money to put their game up. At the end of the day Valve is a business (who gets roughly 30% of sales on Steam) and it's about making money. The only times games should be removed from Steam is when they are literally unplayable, meaning they don't launch or end support (there is a clause that the developer must support their games to an extent or be removed).

But shitty games can be bad for business. Especially if they clutter up the front page, and *especially* if people unwittingly buy them, through inadequate research or through false advertising, and then have to jump through hoops to attempt to get a refund.

I used to use the new releases page on Steam to look for interesting new games. I no longer do that; there's just too much garbage.

And TB addresses this in the video in the OP. The new releases page hardly means new releases anymore.

It's not Valve's job to hold your hand during a purchase. Buyer beware. Everyone should do research on a game not just blindly hit purchase because it might be interesting. Personal responsibility is going out the window these days. Just because you don't like a game doesn't mean you deserve a refund.

They don't need to hold your hand but they should at least offer refunds. Hell even Origins has refunds.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

look fellas, youd be hard pressed to find someone who loves steam more than i, im certain if it wasnt because of it, me and a couple of friends wouldnt be into gaming, atleast not legally, thanks to trading i have been able to earn some awfully needed money off steam in the past, the company behind Steam, Valve, has made some of my favorite games ever and i deeply admire em for their pro-customer and pro-dev morals and their desire to push the industry foward


in short, all Glory to the Astute, Benevolent and Extraordinary Newell

HOWEVER!

recently there was been a huge influx of shovelware on steam, and while i didnt entirely dismiss the problem i thought it wasnt that big of a deal, until now, after reading about dead games being sold on the store and watching this TotalBiscuit video in which he shows an old game so badly ported to new systems, it needs to be burned into a CD in order to run properly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLNh5HPbQPo

the video also shows a few nice features which would help to clean up the storefront

personally i also think Valve could add a recommended selection to the store page, personalized just for you, they could use the data theyve gathered with the steam user reviews and game tags to provide a more or less accurate selection, they could even allow this selection to be refreshed each day or even each time you visit the storefront, im not talking about the recommended section btw, i mean something like "Recently updated" or "Featured PC games"


what features do you think steam needs to properly push quality games to the front page?

People need to stop being so reverential to valve and Steam. It's good but it needs to face fiercer criticism than it has done in the past. It seems to have become something of a sacred cow in the gaming community and this needs to change. A good kicking once in a while is healthy for any company. Sony learned from the ps3 and hopefully microsoft will learn from the xbone.

I don't want to talk about boycotts or anything, but if more people complained and made a fuss i'm sure they might at least take notice.

i dont see that happening in the near future since valve is by far one of the most pro-customers and successful video game companies around, there really isnt much else they could do better


but well, as i said i am a huge valve/steam fan, believe me when i tell you i have my reasons

Whether you like the titles on Steam or not they have a right to be there. They pay money to put their game up. At the end of the day Valve is a business (who gets roughly 30% of sales on Steam) and it's about making money. The only times games should be removed from Steam is when they are literally unplayable, meaning they don't launch or end support (there is a clause that the developer must support their games to an extent or be removed).

But shitty games can be bad for business. Especially if they clutter up the front page, and *especially* if people unwittingly buy them, through inadequate research or through false advertising, and then have to jump through hoops to attempt to get a refund.

I used to use the new releases page on Steam to look for interesting new games. I no longer do that; there's just too much garbage.

And TB addresses this in the video in the OP. The new releases page hardly means new releases anymore.

It's not Valve's job to hold your hand during a purchase. Buyer beware. Everyone should do research on a game not just blindly hit purchase because it might be interesting. Personal responsibility is going out the window these days. Just because you don't like a game doesn't mean you deserve a refund.

They don't need to hold your hand but they should at least offer refunds. Hell even Origins has refunds.

ONLY for EA games tough


so unless you think Valve games are shitty (hah!) this is not the solution to our problem

The number one thing that Steam absolutely needs right now is fucking refunds. The current system of there is no official refund system but unofficially everybody gets one if they're willing to wait weeks for Valve's ludicrously slow tech support was bad back when you could at least be reasonably certain that every game that they sold on the service at least worked. Now that Valve is selling non-functioning games that are essentially scams, it's downright unacceptable. Just have a simple system where if you have less than a certain amount of time played for a game and have owned the game for less than a certain amount of time, you can get a refund, no questions asked. I mean Steam already keeps track of how much time you've played a game, although admittedly not very well. There is absolutely no reason why this basic level of consumer protection isn't in the largest digital games distributor.

Also, I take issue with the reporting Steam games thing. Yes, it is strictly better than letting those games run rampant, but the idea that Valve, a company with hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue from Steam, can't check if the games that they're selling contain fraud or child exploitation is fucking absurd. It is not the community's job to make sure that games being sold on Steam possess basic levels of functionality and aren't scams. That's you're job Valve, and you need to take responsibility for it like the big boys that you are.

Honestly, after all this shit from Steam, I'm finding myself getting more and more games from GoG. It's a way better service, and it's from a company that actually seems to give a shit about it's customers.

steam adds tons of games constantly, even more so now that greenlight has pretty much openned the gates, its understandable if steam doesnt have the time to check every single new game added or if old games in its catalogue are no longer working, letting the community deal with this is an effective way to tackle the problem


also Valve is not anti-customer, you really dont know whats anti-customer if you think they are, GoG gets a free pass simply because they have far less games to deal with and its easy to check if they work or not

 

[BrotherRool]

I suppose, it just seems like what is considered 'good' is too broad a term when applied to games. It also doesn't help the new release section. Bad/non functional games that are newly released on steam(which may be old and unsupported) take screen space from games that deserve it, they may move off once people spread the word on how crap the game is but it can still screw over decent games released at the same time.

Your suggestion definitely would help weed out bad games but I think the damage of having them take front page space has already been dealt.

The way I imagine adapting the mainpage to feedback mechanisms would have it so a game wouldn't land on the main page by default. Or if it does the space devoted to 'this game is new' would be tiny.

The first and most obvious filter would be sales, if a game can't sell a fairly small amount on launch it doesn't go straight to the front page. That may seem harsh, but we have a fairly okay games criticism industry and if you want your game to sell then you're going to have to have some marketing for it anyway. And then to land on the main page it also needs to get some positive reviews and not have many instances of where someone bought it, played it for ten minutes and then never touched it again.

And then obviously if the game is getting lots of refunds/bad reviews it's removed from the front page, if it's metacritic rating is low it doesn't get to go on the front page etc.

I don't actually think the front page of Steam is a good place to have games be noticed for the very first time. The games on there should be games where Steam has some evidence that people may like them. Possibly even adjusted account to account. You don't see never watched before films on Amazon's front page and you don't see videos with 100% dislikes on Youtube's front page. Unknown artists don't find themselves on iTunes front page

Playing a game you know nothing about and is relatively unknown is a niche activity. It doesn't belong on the front page, it belongs on a special page devoted to people who do that.


The aim isn't to make sure everyone likes every game on the front page, but it's to make sure every game on the front page meets a minimum standard of quality and then to try and find methods that give the games the best chance of being liked by the people looking at them.

 

[Eve Charm]

One simple way with one word to fix steam without having to piss off game makers that aren't crap.

Refund.

Seriously it isn't even the shovel-ware at this point, I paid FULL PRICE PREORDER on Resident evil 4 HD and a computer that can play skyrim + tons of mods no problem can't play a 15 year game without audio and sync issues and the game running at half speed?!?!

I rather not not allow games to be put on steam because there are fun small indies but I don't want to hear CAPCOM can't get a game running on pc.

 

[Little Gray]

steam adds tons of games constantly, even more so now that greenlight has pretty much openned the gates, its understandable if steam doesnt have the time to check every single new game added or if old games in its catalogue are no longer working, letting the community deal with this is an effective way to tackle the problem


also Valve is not anti-customer, you really dont know whats anti-customer if you think they are, GoG gets a free pass simply because they have far less games to deal with and its easy to check if they work or not

Except that legally valve is not allowed to sell you a game that does not work.

 

[Laughing Man]

People need to stop being so reverential to valve and Steam. It's good but it needs to face fiercer criticism than it has done in the past.

Yes, lets not sugar coat this folks, one of the key defining features of Valve that CONSTANTLY gets batted about is that the folk that work there can work on whatever they want to work on. So that begs the question why has no one decided to work on a better version of Steam, a cut down version of Steam, a decluttered Steam, a more stable Steam, a Steam that isn't over run with crap?

If EA was doing this kind of thing you could just layer the blame at the execs with some excuse like it's cash and they can't be bothered re focusing people to get it sorted but in Valves case everyone who works there has decided that they can't be bothered trying to fix it to make it better and to be honest that is a far worse crime than the likes of the same situation happening with EA or Ubisofts DD platforms.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

steam adds tons of games constantly, even more so now that greenlight has pretty much openned the gates, its understandable if steam doesnt have the time to check every single new game added or if old games in its catalogue are no longer working, letting the community deal with this is an effective way to tackle the problem


also Valve is not anti-customer, you really dont know whats anti-customer if you think they are, GoG gets a free pass simply because they have far less games to deal with and its easy to check if they work or not

Except that legally valve is not allowed to sell you a game that does not work.

one bad thing theyve done does not discredit all the other good stuff theyve done

As TotalBiscuit said, it's very important to indie developers to have their games on Steam's front page to get exposure, so real games like Luftrausers getting pushed off the "New releases" list by 8 year old shovelware like Desert Gunner is a great injustice.

Steam needs to:
1) Put the original release date of a title on the front page, rather than the date that it was released on Steam.
2) Add more filters such as "Show only brand new releases" and "Show Early Access games" so that users can have more control over what games they see there.

being able to filter out early access games is an awfully needed feature, some people like to pay less (altough it isnt always the case) for a beta and participate in the development of a game, but i certainly dont

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Steam needs to stop listing DLC in the same sections as whole games. It gets really annoying when I want to see if anything decent has been released in the past few weeks and I have to sift through piles and piles of $1 DLC. Hats and rockband songs should not be listed with full games!

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Steam needs to stop listing DLC in the same sections as whole games. It gets really annoying when I want to see if anything decent has been released in the past few weeks and I have to sift through piles and piles of $1 DLC. Hats and rockband songs should not be listed with full games!

errrm, in the new releases section you can filter out DLC, in fact, its filtered out by default

 

[rofltehcat]

Steam needs to stop listing DLC in the same sections as whole games. It gets really annoying when I want to see if anything decent has been released in the past few weeks and I have to sift through piles and piles of $1 DLC. Hats and rockband songs should not be listed with full games!

I agree. Their checkbox helps against this but I think the clutter issue, also criticized in the video, is a more general one. This also brings me to a realization:
I do not really browse Steam anymore. A mix of their floodgates opening and letting developers do their own sales means I am now mainly just looking at the "Top Sellers" list and not really anything beyond that or even beyond the top sellers list page 2.
Can anyone else discover a shift in the way they use/used Steam?

 

[zumbledum]

I strongly disagree with Mr biscuit on this one , i think its a very bad idea to put valve in charge of solving this one , conflict of interests and all. seems to me there's an opportunity here for enterprising 3rd parties to make websites that offer curated visions of steam's front end.

 

[Little Gray]

Except that legally valve is not allowed to sell you a game that does not work.

one bad thing theyve done does not discredit all the other good stuff theyve done

Ah yes the typical valve fanboy response.

 

[blazearmoru]

How about multiple levels of the store?
Tier 1 will have only tier 1 stuffs.
Tier 2 will have mostly Tier 2 stuffs, some Tier 1 stuff that didn't make it to T1 and some T3 stuff that bypassed T3.
Tier 3 will have everything that doesn't make it to T1 and T2 but passed greenlight.

This should help organize the store without much shitstorm?

-------------------------

In addition, games that are already out can fall out of favor and fall OR raise in Tiers with additional reviews.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Steam needs to stop listing DLC in the same sections as whole games. It gets really annoying when I want to see if anything decent has been released in the past few weeks and I have to sift through piles and piles of $1 DLC. Hats and rockband songs should not be listed with full games!

errrm, in the new releases section you can filter out DLC, in fact, its filtered out by default

For PC it is, for the Mac section it isn't. (There's your problem, you say!).

 

[Padwolf]

I think Totalbuscuit's idea was the best one to clean up steam a bit, and that's just to make a better set of filters that enables brand spanking new games to be on the actual new releases section. Also, give DLC it's own section rather than putting it with the whole games. And Or, failing filters, just put the actual release date of the game on the front page along with it. Also maybe offer refunds if the game runs very poorly. Or just hope people look into what they are buying a lot more, and Valve need to look into it a lot more.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Except that legally valve is not allowed to sell you a game that does not work.

one bad thing theyve done does not discredit all the other good stuff theyve done

Ah yes the typical valve fanboy response.

errm yes i did was a was a huge fan of valve and steam, is right there int he OP, i still think my argument stand, while i dont think is right for them to allow a broken game to be sold, i dont think this discredits everything else theyve done to support fans, customers and developers

Steam needs to stop listing DLC in the same sections as whole games. It gets really annoying when I want to see if anything decent has been released in the past few weeks and I have to sift through piles and piles of $1 DLC. Hats and rockband songs should not be listed with full games!

errrm, in the new releases section you can filter out DLC, in fact, its filtered out by default

For PC it is, for the Mac section it isn't. (There's your problem, you say!).

oh i didnt know that, yup definitively needs fixin'

 

[xaszatm]

A really easy solution is to have more than one list, each list being a specific type of game. They keep the sliding highlights of games at the top. Then, underneath that, have three lists displaying AAA games, indie titles, and "classic" games. Each list has their own filters from new releases ("released on Steam" for the classic section), best sellers, etc. This way, it can still be impartial and have more games on the front page to help entice impulse buyers.

 

[Caiphus]

New is relative and contextual. New as in just released, new as in New on Steam, New as in New on Linux/Mac/Etc. There's lot's of ways the word New can be used.

Correct. And currently, on Steam, it is being used in the broadest context possible with no option to narrow that context down. Which is unhelpful, and poor customer service.

'Shitty' much like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Now granted there are shitty games but at the same time someone out there may actually like the game. I may consider Game of Thrones to hot drek on a bab but I hear there are people that like it.

Sure, I agree with this. There are objective ways that one can use to decide if a game is not fit for purpose, though. If it is: missing sound files, .exe files, textures, is using placeholder names, has been falsely advertised, gives motion sickness while playing, has no multiplayer servers, cannot run on most modern PCs, is tough to play without a controller/mods, etc then those games have gone past "shitty in the eye of the beholder" and are just broken.

It's not Steam's job to police their stores in order to make sure all the games meet one person's definition. Steam is in an interesting position., 98% of the games they sell are not theirs. Now let's look at other stores. Blizzard's Store.. only Blizzard games. Origin... EA games.. Steam.. will sell everyone's games. When was the last time you bought something through origin or Blizzard's Store?

Well, at this point they're desperately trying to not make it their job. I think it should be. In most retail stores the items being sold were not manufactured by the retailer in question. Most still offer refunds, or exchange options if something isn't up to scratch. And those stores don't need to make sure items meet "one customer's definition" either. Steam, which is in a special position where it loses no money and has to do remarkably little work if they have to buy back a digital licence, strangely doesn't have to do that.

And I bought Mass effect and the sims 3 through origin. Both EA games, granted.

Now to do this Steam actually opens up to indies. Greenlight for example... now despite what some may think is actually a good system. Oh sure games you like may not get through and games you don't do but greenlight isn't quality control...it's a market test. meaning it tests to see if the game actually has an interested potential consumer base. If it go through Greenlight.. that means quite a few people voted for it.

Well, that's your opinion and we disagree. It's a mess, and Valve is discontinuing it. Which suggests that they are dissatisfied, at best, with their own system.

How does quality control happen. Quality Control is enforced by the market and steam gives their users many tools with which to do this. Users are invited and encouraged to review the games in their library.. these reviews are visible by other steam viewers. Before you buy it's not hard to see what sort of reviews a game has. Shitty games.. get shitty sales... because any consumer that does a little checking will find out it sucks and thusly not buy it.

That's only one way quality control can happen. Potentially biased reviews, forums, fine. Those are available. Why are they the only available quality control?

Valve has TREMENDOUS market power, shown by the desperation with which devs try to get onto their service. Their hands are not tied here. They're in an extremely powerful position to tell devs to cut practices out. Why are we leaving it up to consumers, who have very, very little power to police things? That makes no sense. We're the customers here, and we have rights because of our negligible power as individuals and because of information asymmetry. I'm really unsure why most of this thread appears to be trying to waive them.

Check the User Reviews, CHeck the FOrums (very helpful there actually since you can also see what problems plague other owners), Google Problems and see what comes up; then make your decision to purchase. See how that works.. YOU the consumer have the money, YOU have the Power, so YOU have the responsibility to make sure what YOU spend YOUR money on is worth YOUR money. That's how things work in the world and that's one of the first lessons that should have been drilled into your head the day you were given any form of purchasing power.

But it's not. That's how things work in Steam's world, yes, but it's not generally how things work. Caveat Emptor hasn't existed for quite a while. My purchasing decisions are my responsibility, yes. But Steam's store, and the products on it, are its responsibility.

And as a buyer, I actually have very little power in this market, again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_five_forces_analysis#Bargaining_power_of_customers_.28buyers.29

That's why I have rights, thanks.