Close-mindedness

[PrinceoN]

(Not entirely sure the subject is an actual word, but whatever, lets run with it)

It seems that more and more often today, people are becoming "close-minded" and holding on to dear life of something that they believe, even when a valid counterpoint to their belief, even when the counterpoint has valid proof (or at least theories) behind it.

Pase-and-coint is this: even though I know examples like this have been worn PAST their underpants, but I was arguing with a religious person about Noah and the ark. I was saying how it could not be at all physically possible for any man (an old man, at that), even with the help of his 3 sons, to gather up 2 of EVERY single animal on the face of the planet, check if they were male and female, gather up enough wood to build an ark big enough to hold all of the animals, not to mention all of the food necessary to stay alive for years on end while the flood went on and the waters subsided, then actually be able to BUILD an arc that big, all within the necessary time to do so (meaning his lifetime). Their response was, "Well with the power of God, anything is possible." To which i responded, "Then God didn't do it himself because?" No response to that, yet they still fully believed That Noah's story happened exactly as written. Any further input from me was pretty much made void after that point.

Another example is when people say my bi-sexuality is wrong and that I have a choice to be that way or not, if I bring up the point that part of what makes me bi-sexual is that sometimes smelling a man and/or a woman is arousing to me (something about how hormones make my brain react), or that I'm also attracted to peoples personalities sometimes more than physical appearance (because that makes me such a bad person, who would've thought that character matters?), they still whole-heartedly believe that I need to "change my ways" and what not. When the point of, "Do we tell a sickle cell or hemophiliac patient to change their ways? They're disobeying God's laws too, since their blood is no longer sacred," all I ever seem to get back is, "Well thats different," with no change in how they percieve me.

Sorry for this long rant. Anyway, I wanna see stories of this happening. Do people on The Escapist think people are getting more close-minded these days?

Your topic doesn't have to be on religion, it can be on anything where people aren't willing to listen to or reason with a second opinion (I sense Twilight coming on).

Also, before anyone says, "You just want to be right," let me say that is not the case. If someone can show me proof from various sources that I am wrong on an issue, I will submit defeat. However, all I want is for people to do the same, or at least reason with the fact that they COULD be wrong, rather than hold on to their beliefs with such cold-hearted enthusiasm.

EDIT: just so that i know this wont turn into a religious hate thread and get blocked, let me make sure i clarify my position. I'm not just talking about religious people being close-minded, I'm talking about ANYONE you've encountered being close-minded, whether it be someone defending Halo, Twilight, Megan Fox, anything. Thought I'd just say this to change all the religious posts people have been saying >.>

 

[Kollega]

When most of the people become open-minded,it will be next step in the evolution of human race. Zealous worshiping of anything (be it religion or a new console) is what holds us down as a species. On the other hand,society was even more close-minded in,say,Middle Ages. So we're progressing,slowly but surely.

I,personaly,am pretty accepting. I don't mind bisexuals/other races/religious people,as long as they do not try to abuse me. Most things in pop-culture i despise,i despise because of their fanbases. Warhammer 40.000 is a perfect example - it had so much going for it,but fanboys are absolutely BRUTAL and make me ignore it.

 

[The_Healer]

Pase-and-coint is this: even though I know examples like this have been worn PAST their underpants, but I was arguing with a religious person about Noah and the ark. I was saying how it could not be at all physically possible for any man (an old man, at that), even with the help of his 3 sons, to gather up 2 of EVERY single animal on the face of the planet, check if they were male and female, gather up enough wood to build an ark big enough to hold all of the animals, not to mention all of the food necessary to stay alive for years on end while the flood went on and the waters subsided, then actually be able to BUILD an arc that big, all within the necessary time to do so (meaning his lifetime). Their response was, "Well with the power of God, anything is possible." To which i responded, "Then God didn't do it himself because?" No response to that, yet they still fully believed That Noah's story happened exactly as written. Any further input from me was pretty much made void after that point.

Another good argument is that the bible says that the entirety of Earth's surface was covered with water. This implies that even the peak of Everest was covered and thus sea level now would be 8km underwater. Now I wonder where all that water came from...

Anyway, I am quite close minded about a lot of things but also have good arguments to support what I believe. I generally listen if someone has something logical to say but that isn't often.

 

[Skeleon]

Well, I'm sorry for your problems, but I'd say society as a whole has become a lot more open-minded over the last 300 years. Maybe you're just living in a very religious region or associating with particularily close-minded people?

 

[Kilaknux]

Grammar Nazi mode - I believe you meant narrow-mindedness
OT, This isn't really a new trend. Not very many people are open-minded, even if they claim they are. Your bisexuality is a good example of this kind of thing, actually. Although they probably thought they were being open-minded by attempting to "cure" you, as opposed to outright decrying you, they really weren't.
Humans tend to stick with a certain set of beliefs no matter what and hang on to them through thick and thin no matter what happens.

 

[Citrus]

The problem is that people are taught these things from an early age, and so they believe they are true without a shadow of a doubt. It's just human nature, I guess; if it's part of the way you grew up, it's pretty much with you for life. If it were possible to keep people away from controversial stuff like this until they're old enough to decide for themselves what they want to believe in, things would probably be much different.

 

[PrinceoN]

The problem is that people are taught these things from an early age, and so they believe they are true without a shadow of a doubt. It's just human nature, I guess; if it's part of the way you grew up, it's pretty much with you for life. If it were possible to keep people away from controversial stuff like this until they're old enough to decide for themselves what they want to believe in, things would probably be much different.

i guess i would have to agree with you, but that cant be entirely true. i grew up as a jehovah's witness *shivers* and i eventually changed into an agnostic almost aethiest person when i was about 15 or 16...maybe you could justify that by saying it was my "curious teenage years" but then why would the other teenagers i hang out with be so close-minded if theyre supposed to be curious and inquisitive? parents =|

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

You're always going to get that with religious people, I've accepted that as a way of life, when the argument gets to an impasse and the best reason they can come up with is "God this" or "God that" then I facepalm say "good day to you sir/madam" and walk away. Their blind faith annoys and astounds me both at the same time.
On the flip side though I'm not so narrow minded as to think that there is not some kind of higher being 100%, when you bring me proof then I'll say "fair enough" and continue life regardless, but because most religious nuts use the bible as a reference and then back everything up with religious "logic" I think I'll stay with my grounded logic for now, it's kinda safe and, I don't know, there's kind of proof for alot of things that are logical, pity I can't say the same to them without hearing "God is all around us, embrace him", riiiiiiiiight.

 

[dietpeachsnapple]

EGAD!

Attempting to have a conversation about logic based knowledge and the nature of ideological conflict without ending up with a 'science vs. religion' or a 'religion vs. religion' or 'religion vs. anything besides the proscribed religion' thread?

Your optimism is overwhelming.

Allow me to assist:

The process of socialization draws a person to identify themselves with whatever belief set they were raised under. Even if this is not strictly the case, a person may define their own belief set, and then move to defend the justifications of that logic set.

For obvious reasons, different people end up with different beliefs and logics sets resulting in contradictions between individuals. Some feel that the presence of contrary belief sets stands in defiance of the 'truth' of their identity, built upon said belief sets. When a person's identity is threatened, people are inclined to act aggressively in retaliation against that dissonance.

 

[Lieju]

I was talking to a religious person just a while ago who also believed the flood-story, despite all the evidence to the contrary.I study geology, and let me tell you a global flood that killed pretty much everything on the planet would be kinda hard to miss. People like that have based their faith on the fact that all in their bible, or some other holy book must be totally true, and when faced with evidence to the contrary, all they can do is to close their mind (and also call everyone who doesn't accept their point of view "close-minded") in order to keep believing in their little fantasy.

You can't convince people like that, so it's best not to bother. I prefer to talk to actually open-minded people who just have been misinformed. Why waste my time with someone like that?

 

[Simalacrum]

it really depends. I personally haven't seen such completely blinded close-mindedness first hand, but I have heard many cases of it... It sounds like you live in a particularly religiously close minded society, if I may be frank. Nobody really believes in fundamental christianity where I live, so, yeah.

 

[NicolasMarinus]

No matter how smart we humans think we are, we have tiny brains and have moved up only a single step on the evolutionary ladder from our apeman forefather.

We cannot handle complexity as well as we would hope for. Since science is showing us just how complex our world is, and how much more there is to discover, a lot of people choose to NOT know. They chose the simple life with simple answers. God created the universe and bi-sexuality is a choice. There. Done.

If Skeleon believes our society has become more open-minded in the last 300 years, he is right to a certain extent. 10% of society has. The rest hasn't.

These people cannot be convinced with facts. I say, let them live in their world, I will continue to live in mine (one where the universe was created by endless cell reproduction processes and bi-sexuality is caused by a hormonal imbalance while growing in the womb).

 

[silasbufu]

I find many religious people to be closed-minded, because they do not have arguments. Only faith spam.

 

[Archer147]

don't get me started on religious matters. the last time i did that, i got into a flame war and they had to lock the thread.

and the douche i was arguing with got the last word in! damn my full-time hours!

but ot, i hate those sorts of people. believe what you want to believe, but don't go into the realms of "god did it" to try and get your point across. it just doesn't fucking fly.

 

[Nickolai77]

It's times like these that i am glad i live where i do, far away from the world of religious fundamentalist's. (Of course, there are a few religious nutters in my country, but not many)

Religious fundimentalist's are particularity close minded because they construct their lives around religion. Religion satisfies elements of the human psyche- we need to be loved, we need to be central in this huge and vast universe, we need to conquer death, we need to believe in something bigger than ourselves, we need to feel that all our problems can be solved. I also believe that religious people are, in general, happier than non-believer's, because religious people have this psychological crutch within their own mind which addresses our primeval fears. This happiness is then a motivation for them to "spread the word of the Lord" so other people can feel the happiness they feel. While this appears altruistic, of course i believe that they are entirely incorrect.

Addressing the OP's point, religious people, i would suggest, are so close minded for the reasons above, i would therefore see little point in arguing with them. So long as religious people do not try to interfere with politics or the advancement of human knowledge, it's best to ignore them.

 

[Thaius]

It seems that more and more often today, people are becoming "close-minded" and holding on to dear life of something that they believe, even when a valid counterpoint to their belief, even when the counterpoint has valid proof (or at least theories) behind it.

Let me say first that I understand where you're coming from (and please, I don't want to start a flame war, but rather to have an intelligent and respectful conversation), but actually, I would present the idea that non-religious people are as, if not more, closed-minded than religious people. We all have things we believe, whether it's in the existence of God or the non-existence of him.

But here's the thing: narrow-mindedness is not always a bad thing. It's true that we should be open to different possibilities, but the fact is that truth is narrow. One thing is true: there are not multiple truths, there is no "subjective truth." One thing is true, and everything else is not. So am I closed-minded to believe that the Statue of Liberty is off the eastern coast of North America? No, because it's the truth. Is it closed-minded to believe I'm typing on a keyboard right now? Of course not: it's truth, and being open-minded about that fact would not only be stupid, but it would be leaving me open to be deceived: neither of which are good things.

Now it's true that subjects such as religion are not so straight-forward, but beliefs like that are settled on over time and research.

One thing that I think most atheists don't get is that people of faith have had to call their beliefs into question far more than anyone else. We live in a society where spiritual beliefs of any kind are disrespected and looked down upon, and those who believe are slandered and insulted. When you believe something that's so hated in your society, you eventually have to question it: you have to look into it for yourself, study it, and choose for yourself what you believe.

On the other hand, someone who's raised without belief in God goes to school and learns everything in life from a post-modern viewpoint. Their entire life they are told that there is no God, they are taught evolution from an absolute standpoint, and they witness spirituality being made fun of all the time. Atheists never have to question their beliefs, they simply have to go along with everything they're learned in their entire life.

So tell me, who is more closed-minded: someone who holds on to their beliefs regardless of a constant and strong societal movement against them, or someone who never has their ideas challenged and just believes the same way their entire life?

And for the record, the Bible says that God brought all the animals to Noah's ark: he didn't have to gather any of them. Also, Noah could do it in his lifetime because the life span of people that early in the Bible was around 800 years. And as for why God didn't simply build the ark himself, according to Christian doctrine God is not some magical Santa who gives you whatever you want or need. The building of an ark was a test for Noah: he had to endure hatred and ridicule to do what he knew was right: Noah was a dedicated man who was willing to do anything for what he believed. If God had simply made an ark appear, he wouldn't have needed such character and we wouldn't have such an inspiring story. Hope that answers some of those questions. And I wouldn't mind finding out where the heck that whole "sacred blood" thing came from...

 

[Anarchy In Detroit]

Are people MORE close minded?

As compared to when? The 50s? Try being bi-sexual back then, or try disputing religion back then...

As compared to further back? Like the middle ages? Questioning anything = tortured to death and/or lit on fire

We're not getting close-minded. We're getting open-minded and all the close-minded people are still here in our way intellectually straggling. Like dumb people counting your change at the store for ten minutes.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

When you grow up atheist in the middle of the Bible Belt, you quickly learn that things like facts and logic simply do not work on some people--that, indeed, there are quite a few out there who take genuine pleasure in disregarding rationality, who consider blind faith a high virtue, who essentially wear their ignorance like a badge of honor--and you come to the inevitable conclusion that trying to reason with such people is utterly pointless. I had that figured out by the time I was, I don't know, twelve.

So now, when people attempt to convert me, I just try to have some fun with them. Like the last time, I pretended to be distracted by an invisible person for a second and then said, "I'm sorry--the Dark Master says I can't talk to you anymore." And I think the guy took me seriously. That was pretty awesome.

 

[Cxizent]

A mind is only closed in relation to another mind that is more open.

 

[Hookman]

About the Noahs Ark thing,a lot of Christians dont seem to realize that mos of the stories in the Bible were made to teach morals and similar things and that they shouldnt be taken seriously or literally.