Code Liberation Foundation Working to Fix Sexism in Games

[Azaraxzealot]

This sounds amazing. I wish I could partake in these classes, but I don't have the right genitalia

I hope men are allowed as well, because where I live, we aren't exactly bursting at the seams with game developer courses at the schools, and it would be nice to see more of these courses/programs be made available to ALL aspiring developers and not just the ones who don't identify with having a penis.

EDIT: But to be clear, I do support this. I would rather have more people and potential friends to work with that can feel just as comfortable as I do doing whatever I can do with me.

 

[hexFrank202]

Oh dear god YES. Fucking this is all I wanted! I don't even care how whiny any of the people involved in this may or may not be, I'm just glad they're focusing on making stuff BETTER, rather than coming up with bullshit reasons for why things are the way they are and making it sound more villainous than it is in reality.

I'm working to become a game designer, and I really, really want to have women to work with, under and above in my career. Hell I wouldn't mind being outnumbered by women; that's what I love about deviantArt.

Hopefully, people, stuff like this will make the you-know-who's of the internet completely obsolete once and for all.

 

[Stevepinto3]

Sounds kind of cool, but I wonder about this bit. they say:

A Bureau of Labor Statistics chart showed a decline in women programmers since 1991. In 1987, 42 percent of American programmers were women. Now only 25 percent of programmers are women

Now is that an actual decline in numbers or just a decline in proportion? It seems to me more likely that there are more female programmers today than in 87, whilst many more men got in to the market since then. So not really a decline in female programmers just that more men showed up over the years than women and skweing the proportions.

And I wonder how long it will be until there is a major studio with a mostly female programming team.

Oh, and the article really should have included a link to the CLF website.

http://codeliberation.org/

To sorta add on to this. Another factor that is always either omitted or forgotten from the conversation is the freedom of choice and outcome of opportunity.

The ability to choose one's own career path is always open to people regardless of gender. There are no actual barriers the educational system has up that prevents a person choosing what classes they want to take based on gender. If women decide that they don't want to pursue a career in computer science or programming(to which as noted by Weaver that most programming jobs are not related to game development) it is usually because they either choose not to. You can't really complain about who your peers are in a career field when the imputes is on each individual.

As for the article yeah one again sensationalist click bait wins again. Good on the group for offering the tools but it will still be the individuals choice on what they want to do in the end. Especially when there aren't any barriers by the law or by gender that stops a women from pursuing a career in programming.

For Critical Miss's comment, even if it's a case that programming is just attracting WAY more male programmers while female programmers remain at roughly the same level, it should still raise the question why so many dudes are flocking to the job but not women. i.e. even if they aren't being driven out why aren't they coming in?

In response to Tenmar, no there isn't anything stopping women from becoming programmers from a strictly legal perspective. These discussions are, and have been for quite some time, about the how environment tends to treat women, and about the way society establishes expected interests for women and men.

Men are expected to be into programming because being techy is a "guy" thing. Women are expected to have extensive knowledge about makeup instead. Don't believe me? Look at kid's toys, girls get dolls with a bunch of pastel colored outfits, boys get trucks that turn into freaking robots. We're literally pushing the mechanical/technical aspect on boys while teaching girls that beauty is more important for them.

And it's not that being into makeup or cooking is wrong, but when society is being dominated by technology it is important that we aren't setting up people to avoid what can be such an important career on a both a personal and societal level. So when you consider that we are actively disincentivizing girls from pursuing technical hobbies as children, and making them feel uncomfortable in the programming field as an adult, the we have a seriously long way to go before there are actually no "barriers".

 

[Thaluikhain]

Meanwhile in the female coal miners movement allot of crickets gathered. I always have to laugh when we need a safe place for anyone to learn something. Sure there is nothing that rubs me the wrong way here, it's a nice sentiment but it just makes me laugh reading that one sentence every time.

"A safe place" because real life is always safe. Not to mention the MANY professions women have absolutely 0% interest in alleviating sexism in like miners, oil rig workers, garbage disposal, mechanical repair, lumber jacking, sewage maintenance, farming, the list literally goes on. No the men can keep those jobs.

Which is, of course, why women are still fighting to get greater acceptance in place like the military.

And, as it happens, the coal mining industry. And farming. Big moves about women in the Australian coal industry. Farming always has had women involved, so that's not such an issue.

 

[Nurb]

My problem is that "sexism" is used as the root cause of any of these numbers being less than 50%, and claiming anyone who disagrees it's sexism are themselves sexist. That's how it started about 5 years ago, people started showing up, said "sexism is the problem here" made all gamers the "bad guy", and try to validate their opinions by saying anyone who disagrees is the problem.

At my college the Interior Design courses were dominated by women...
Is it "sexism" that keeps the numbers of men down in that field?
Are they actively driving men out of the field?
Are women making an environment that makes men uncomfortable?
Do there need to be programs to get more men into interior design?

Existance of a majority doesn't automatically mean there's oppression from the majority.

 

[Amaror]

For Critical Miss's comment, even if it's a case that programming is just attracting WAY more male programmers while female programmers remain at roughly the same level, it should still raise the question why so many dudes are flocking to the job but not women. i.e. even if they aren't being driven out why aren't they coming in?

I would guess for the same reason that there aren't as many female mathmaticians or physicists. Or in general just not so many women pursuing carreers in the natural sciences.
There just aren't as many women interested in this stuff.
Just as there aren't that many men interested in social sciences, for example.
Don't get me wrong, i fully support this thing and think that it's great to offer an easier way for women who are interested in this stuff. I just don't expect the number of female programmers to rival those of male programmers anytime soon.
I am studying computer science myself and the number of female students here is really low. Not only that but the ones that do study it, study an mixture course between computer science and psychology.
But i would certainly love it if there were more women in this field. But you can trust me, i have never seen any hostility from the male students towards the female students whatsoever here. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Sounds kind of cool, but I wonder about this bit. they say:

A Bureau of Labor Statistics chart showed a decline in women programmers since 1991. In 1987, 42 percent of American programmers were women. Now only 25 percent of programmers are women

Now is that an actual decline in numbers or just a decline in proportion? It seems to me more likely that there are more female programmers today than in 87, whilst many more men got in to the market since then. So not really a decline in female programmers just that more men showed up over the years than women and skweing the proportions.

And I wonder how long it will be until there is a major studio with a mostly female programming team.

Oh, and the article really should have included a link to the CLF website.

http://codeliberation.org/

I'm not exactly sure why the hard numbers matter. I didn't get the impression that this article was trying to say that female programmers were being forced out of the industry. This significant decline in the proportion of female programmers is still pretty telling of some kind of discrepancy.

To sorta add on to this. Another factor that is always either omitted or forgotten from the conversation is the freedom of choice and outcome of opportunity.

The ability to choose one's own career path is always open to people regardless of gender. There are no actual barriers the educational system has up that prevents a person choosing what classes they want to take based on gender. If women decide that they don't want to pursue a career in computer science or programming(to which as noted by Weaver that most programming jobs are not related to game development) it is usually because they either choose not to. You can't really complain about who your peers are in a career field when the imputes is on each individual.

As for the article yeah one again sensationalist click bait wins again. Good on the group for offering the tools but it will still be the individuals choice on what they want to do in the end. Especially when there aren't any barriers by the law or by gender that stops a women from pursuing a career in programming.

The very fact that the gender distribution in computer science has changed so drastically since 1987 strongly suggests otherwise. I'm pretty sure that the percentage of women didn't drop by half because the whole gender just stopped liking computer science on a whim. Sure women who want to study computer science have every opportunity to that men do, but they're given a lot more reasons and influences to discourage them from wanting to. Which is kind of what this article was talking about.

OT: I am actually surprised that the there used to be so many woman in computer science. It's both refreshing and disappointing. In my computer science classes I think I'd be generous saying that 10% of the population consists of women. I think initiatives like this are a good idea, giving people reasons and opportunities to get into computer science. Sadly mentioning any negatives in gaming relating to gender always summons up such seething vitriol from the community that it only serves to give women less reason to want to be a part of it.

 

[Amir Kondori]

This is all great but I disagree with the article when it says video games have an "image problem". Video games are more accepted than ever before in the mainstream and women are more represented than ever before. There is still not gender equality, but video games do not have an image problem.

 

[Stavros Dimou]

I'm kind of surprised from this article.
Was "a special place that is safe and women can learn programming" even necessary ?
I mean... Don't universities just accept women ? And aren't they considered 'safe' places for people to be ?
It's weird... I personally know more women who have some knowledge of programming than men.
But most of them I know don't end up working on that,one is a saleswoman and another is working at a restaurant.
Once I asked the saleswoman why don't she try to make a small program or indie game and try her luck on that,and well she initially clammed up.In the end she seemed to be satisfied with her current job and thought that it didn't worth to spend her free time trying to do something related with building a software.
I'm all for women too learning how to make games,and start making them,it's just that I had the assumption that programming classes were already available for any woman that wants to participate and learn to code.

 

[Stavros Dimou]

Well, I am currently studying computer science and the amount of female students is really(!) low. While it is changing, it'll still take quite some time.
I think a big problem with such jobs in general are the stereotypes that are attached to them. They make a lot of people not even consider them, even though they'd might like them.

Which is ironic considering how the first person to make a working algorithm as Ada Lovelace, and many more women were a first into computer programming in general.


https://24.media.tumblr.com/e28c0760e07f72169365dd4878b53c87/tumblr_mzbbjw4NZO1qfsvcyo1_400.jpg

That image a has at least one big fault.
Ada Lovelace did not invent the computer. I had to look it up, because I leaned something different during my studies.
Turns out I was right.
She was the first programmer, which frankly is quite a different thing.
The computer as we know it was essentially invented by Alan Turing.

Does it matter who invented what ?
It might be that I am a foreigner,but it boggles my mind that most of the time when one individual does something,there seems to be a group of individuals in the U.S. that only share a single characteristic with that special individual,and they make such a big deal about it,like somehow they deserve special treatment because another individual did something.
I mean we are humans,no matter if woman or man,white or black,heterosexual or homosexual,religious or atheist.
Why when a certain person that is something and does something,there have to be others that feel entitled to deserve special treatment too,even though they themselves didn't do a thing ? :/
It's like there is always some kind of arbitrary rivalry between people because of trivial differences they have from each other.

 

[MetalMagpie]

I'm kind of surprised from this article.
Was "a special place that is safe and women can learn programming" even necessary ?
I mean... Don't universities just accept women ? And aren't they considered 'safe' places for people to be ?

Yeah, that struck me as slightly weird as well. I'm a female software developer. Whilst it would be lovely to be able to see that as some sort of giant achievement for me (Overcoming barriers! Breaking glass ceilings! Showing the men how it's done! Grrrr! Etc.) actually... I experienced no barriers on my way here.

Step 1: Became interested in computers as a child.
Step 2: Studied sciences at school.
Step 3: Studied engineering at university.
Step 4: Got a job as a software developer.

But I live in the UK. Maybe it's different in the US?

 

[Alexander Kirby]

I hate this idea that WE NEED MORE WOMEN IN THESE INDUSTRIES NOW BECAUSE IT WILL FIX ALL THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS!!!

when it comes to giving them free education in these fields that's just unfair. Yes, get rid of these adverts discouraging women, but don't give them an unfair advantage. It's like how the UK government wants to meet a 'quota' of women in their government, someone should get an education of a job if they can prove they'll be good at it, not because of their gender. Flipping the coin doesn't fix all the problems.

 

[Stavros Dimou]

I'm kind of surprised from this article.
Was "a special place that is safe and women can learn programming" even necessary ?
I mean... Don't universities just accept women ? And aren't they considered 'safe' places for people to be ?

Yeah, that struck me as slightly weird as well. I'm a female software developer. Whilst it would be lovely to be able to see that as some sort of giant achievement for me (Overcoming barriers! Breaking glass ceilings! Showing the men how it's done! Grrrr! Etc.) actually... I experienced no barriers on my way here.

Step 1: Became interested in computers as a child.
Step 2: Studied sciences at school.
Step 3: Studied engineering at university.
Step 4: Got a job as a software developer.

But I live in the UK. Maybe it's different in the US?

I really don't know too. :/