The end of "Baelor" made me cry, I've been enjoying the series so much that I didn't realise how invested I'd gotten in the characters..I hope Joffrey gets what's coming to him, damn brat -_-
Commentary on ?Baelor?
- Thread starter Greg Tito
- Start date
Where exactly was I requesting that every episode have a long, drawn out bloodbath? Of course the series is about intrigue, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a good killing every now and then. As for the series itself, it wouldn't be too much to hope for a nice juicy battle scene near the end of the season, is it? The battles don't get the spotlight in the books, but they also aren't exactly skipped entirely.Jamboxdotcom said:
And if they can make time for a 5 minute lesbian scene so Littlefinger can lay down some exposition and background, then by gods they can make time for a minute or two of wholesale slaughter!
Also, I'm a bit pissed they left out the plot angle about Sansa betraying her father...
I haven't read the books (I feel I should now), so I did not know what was coming at the end (funnily enough I just misspelt "end" as "ned"....yeah), but it was awesome. A very moving scene I thought, especially when that guy (I don't know his name...) grabs Arya and was shouting "don't look!". Also, Jack Gleeson, who plays Joffrey, is doing a fantastic job - I hate his character, and that says a lot for his acting talent. Fair play to him.
This series if definitely one of the best I've ever seen. I'm not that fussed about skipping the big battles - again, I didn't read the books so I don't really know what I'm missing - but the little 1 on 1s and stuff like that they have suit me fine. Assuming, though, that there is a big battle at the end or some sort, I hope we get to see that.
Also, big gutted that one of my favourite characters is gone. And Sean Bean, I think, is a tremendous actor.
This series if definitely one of the best I've ever seen. I'm not that fussed about skipping the big battles - again, I didn't read the books so I don't really know what I'm missing - but the little 1 on 1s and stuff like that they have suit me fine. Assuming, though, that there is a big battle at the end or some sort, I hope we get to see that.
Also, big gutted that one of my favourite characters is gone. And Sean Bean, I think, is a tremendous actor.
This is what I wanted to hear. I was really curious whether or not the surprise would translate into the live version or not. I'm happy that it did.JWRosser said:
I eagerly await to read about your or anyone's reactions to the series future blindsides. They are cruel and glorious.
(Wait... does that make them gruel??)
A friend of mine who has read the books said don't get too attached to any of the characters...haha.Dirty Apple said:
I also realised about 3 episodes in that they are not shy of death. I find the series very hard to predict - I mean, I would have classed Ned as the main character, and now this has happened so...yeah. That's a compliment to George R. R. Martin too; he's obviously a talented writer who does not conform to clichés.
I read the first three before I gave up due to the publishing delays... But I'm wondering the same thing - if I should give them another chance. Book 5 is coming out soon; and it's probably a safe bet that HBO wouldn't take on the series without some sort of guarantee that GRRM will get of his ass and write.JWRosser said:
Plenty of people who have read the entire series so far? What's the verdict?
Exactly the same thing happened to me. I take it as GRRM basically saying, "you know those fantasy novels where the noble, honourable guy suffers for his honour but in the end is vindicated? Yeah, this isn't one of those." The grim & gritty isn't just an aesthetic for Martin--he's committed to it.Greg Tito said:
Well, as a huge Sean Bean fan, I knew that except for Sharpe, Bravo Two-Zero and Ronin (which was a subversion of his usual "heavy" roles), he usually gets typecast in two types of roles: villains (GoldenEye, National Treasure), or noble but doomed heroes (Equilibrium). As Boromir he even got to do both in the same movie (his death scene in Fellowship is one of the few times a movie ever brought me to tears). But he tends not to live to the end of the story.JWRosser said:
So when I saw he was cast as Eddard Stark, I thought, "Damn, he'll be dead by the end of the season. But damn if they didn't cast the finest possible actor for that role." I felt pretty good about the production after that, and am really happy to see HBO didn't disappoint.
Great episode.The portrayal of Walder Frey and the Twins was spot on I thought.Just a couple of things that didn't sit right with me though
1.Tyrion being knocked out really seemed like a bad excuse not to show the battle.As several others have mentioned he killed several men and captured a knight before being injured.Not showing that seems like a disservice to his character as he proves in the books that depite his stature he's capable of fighting when necessary
2.The diversionary army.Robb talks about sending 2000 men to their graves and while in the books they were defeated they were not wiped out yet there is no mention of survivors in the show.This army goes on to later capture Harrenhal(also I'm pretty sure it was larger than 2000 in the books)
3.No mention of Roose Bolton who led the second army.A man picked by Robb because "he frightens me".Bolton may be a minor character but he does have a significant role to play later on
1.Tyrion being knocked out really seemed like a bad excuse not to show the battle.As several others have mentioned he killed several men and captured a knight before being injured.Not showing that seems like a disservice to his character as he proves in the books that depite his stature he's capable of fighting when necessary
2.The diversionary army.Robb talks about sending 2000 men to their graves and while in the books they were defeated they were not wiped out yet there is no mention of survivors in the show.This army goes on to later capture Harrenhal(also I'm pretty sure it was larger than 2000 in the books)
3.No mention of Roose Bolton who led the second army.A man picked by Robb because "he frightens me".Bolton may be a minor character but he does have a significant role to play later on
I haven't read the books, but what keeps the show going is that it takes quite unexpected twists and turns, that pretty much rules out any possibility of guessing who dies next. I mean who would have thought that the mighty Drogo would be put down by what looked like a scratch. Good stuff, I'm glad Escapist has coverage of the series, good to read other people's feelings about the latest developments.
For #2 they really simplified the battle strategy here. In HBO Rob simply sent 2000 men to their deaths as a diversion, while the rest went after Jamie. The weakness here is it's not going to take 30,000 long to beat 2000, so at best it should do little more than slow Tywin down by an hour or two. Then what's worse, there is now no longer an army standing between Tywin and the North. Roose Bolton on the other hand will certainly be cast for season two, I'm guessing they'll make them be a few hundred survivors that stick around to harass Tywin until they can take Harrenhall.MetalDooley said:
Now the more complex but legit strategy Robb used in the book, he didn't send 2000 men against tywin, he sent 18,000 (remember they gained 3000-4000 soldiers from Lord Frey). Hey sent his entire infantry against Tywin, led by the cunning Roose Bolton with orders to more or less play it safe, poke the lion then retreat. This creates a real threat to keep Tywin in place. To Riverrun, he Robb lead all of his calvary. First they faked a small raiding party, knowing that Jamie would be itching for a fight and would lead a small force out to personally take care of the pests. This was the battle of the Whispering Woods, where Robb ambushed and annihilated Jamie. With the head cut off they then launched a quick surprise attack on each of the 3 isolated Lannister encampments besieging Riverrun. I'd imagine they could take two by surprise, and by the time the 3rd knew what was going on the defenders could sally forth from the castle for a pincer attack.
So it's far better in the book, but I'm not going to complain as that's the nature of TV to simplify these things.
You just blew my mind!The Diabolical Biz said:
A credible theory that Rhaegar and Lyanna could be Jon's true parents. The evidence presented may be subtle, but damn if it didn't send a chill down my spine.
I had exactly the same feeling. Plus it makes one of my favourite characters seem even more significantPseudoDuck said:
As it lends credence to the theory that Jon is the 'Prince Who Was Promised'
Also reading all that evidence it felt like something that had been nagging at the back of my mind for the whole series just...clicked.
I know it's been said before, but I just wanted to share my thoughts 
In book one the only fighting we ever see was Tyrion's small part before he got wounded, and even then we don't actually see how the battle is going until someone retells the whole battle to Tyrion when he regains consciousness.
The battle of the whispering woods is told from the perspective of Catelyn, and we only know what happens because Rob's knights come back and start boasting about how the King Slayer took down some men trying to get to Rob.
As readers we experience the battles indirectly, and the very few battles we experience as they happen don't tell the whole story, even the battle at Kings Landing is only told until Tyrion once again gets knocked out, and then we know the conclusion second hand thanks to other characters.
I'm not expecting HBO to give us a whole battle, but I do hope we get to see the massive amounts of boats burning in the river
In book one the only fighting we ever see was Tyrion's small part before he got wounded, and even then we don't actually see how the battle is going until someone retells the whole battle to Tyrion when he regains consciousness.
The battle of the whispering woods is told from the perspective of Catelyn, and we only know what happens because Rob's knights come back and start boasting about how the King Slayer took down some men trying to get to Rob.
As readers we experience the battles indirectly, and the very few battles we experience as they happen don't tell the whole story, even the battle at Kings Landing is only told until Tyrion once again gets knocked out, and then we know the conclusion second hand thanks to other characters.
I'm not expecting HBO to give us a whole battle, but I do hope we get to see the massive amounts of boats burning in the river
Well bare in mind there are a lot of other factors to a production than just length. The Lord of the Rings trilogy was shot on traditional Super 35mm film where as Game of Thrones is shot on newer/cheaper Arri Alexa digital cameras. I also remember reading somewhere that Game of Thrones was reusing some sets from another show.Thesreyn said:
Certainly Game of Thrones is operating on a tighter budget overall though.
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With regards to the battle discussion, I was a little disappointed to not see scenes of combat in this episode. Even their write out didn't quite make sense, why is Tyrion being carried on a cart through the battleground if he was knocked out in camp? Unless the mountain tribes were really that determined to keep him around, but they didn't seem to mind him going off to breakfast with lords or partying in his tent with Bron and Shae.
I also felt it was another sly prod from Martin, though this understandably might not have worked well for TV. Most of our first-hand battle experiences are delivered by the least capable character in that regard: not Robb, Jaime, Loras, etc but instead the crippled dwarf Tyrion.
To those saying that HBO can't do good battles, I say bullshit. Rome season 2 had a fantastic fight scene for the death of Brutus. And the recent Pillars of the Earth was full of carnage. There's no reason they couldn't have shown us some of the fight.
I was wondering where this week's discussion was - I was thinking maybe Greg was too choked up about Ned to write it
Ned's execution scene was perfection - they handled it extremely well. And I really liked the added bit of Ned seeing Arya and getting Yoren to grab her. It sucks that we must say goodbye to Sean Bean, he did a phenomenal job.
I was a little disappointed with the Battle of the Green Fork and the Whispering Wood, I was looking forward to those. But, thinking about it, I kind of like what happened with Tyrion - him getting knocked out but making his father think he fought valiantly is much more the Imp's style than the rather ridiculous stuff he does in the book. Although, did Tyrion fight after all? Why else would he be on a cart carrying the dead and wounded if he was still back in the camp? I was a bit confused by that.
And the Whispering Wood I was a little less bothered with - it pretty much was like in the book, with Catelyn a ways off and only hearing the fighting. But it would have been cool to see Jaime trying to cut his way through to Robb and then finally being subdued.
Oh well, at least we had the sweet fight between Ser Jorah and one of Drogo's blood riders.
And I really liked the Aemon Targaryen reveal, too (and Longclaw!). I wasn't too impressed with the actor for Maester Aemon before, but he did great in this scene.
*sigh* only one more episode ;_;
Ned's execution scene was perfection - they handled it extremely well. And I really liked the added bit of Ned seeing Arya and getting Yoren to grab her. It sucks that we must say goodbye to Sean Bean, he did a phenomenal job.
I was a little disappointed with the Battle of the Green Fork and the Whispering Wood, I was looking forward to those. But, thinking about it, I kind of like what happened with Tyrion - him getting knocked out but making his father think he fought valiantly is much more the Imp's style than the rather ridiculous stuff he does in the book. Although, did Tyrion fight after all? Why else would he be on a cart carrying the dead and wounded if he was still back in the camp? I was a bit confused by that.
And the Whispering Wood I was a little less bothered with - it pretty much was like in the book, with Catelyn a ways off and only hearing the fighting. But it would have been cool to see Jaime trying to cut his way through to Robb and then finally being subdued.
Oh well, at least we had the sweet fight between Ser Jorah and one of Drogo's blood riders.
And I really liked the Aemon Targaryen reveal, too (and Longclaw!). I wasn't too impressed with the actor for Maester Aemon before, but he did great in this scene.
*sigh* only one more episode ;_;