Three of my favorite people on this site, debating important gaming topics.
Please sir, can i have some more?
Please sir, can i have some more?
Console Gaming
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All very valid comments from the three of you, but I'm going to have to agree with Yahtzee on the immersion front here. One of my favourite things to do is to wake up at 6am and lie in bed playing Mass Effect. If that had me running around pretending to shoot people appearing on a light box I don't think the other people around my house would be very impressed. Plus my body just can't do that as I am still wiping the sleep from my eyes. Gaming is fun because it isn't physically taxing. If I wanted to flail my arms about I would play tennis.
I think I mostly agree with yahtzee on this one. While I enjoyed motion control for FPSes, I quite enjoy the way consoles are now an I think that the Wiimote can, at times, be quite stupid. It's also a bit of a dead end. Buttons and motion? Sure it can get farther than purely gesture-based control when applied properly but not by much. On the other hand, since the end of gesture-based control has been pretty much in sight from day one, there may well be a desire to simulate other senses, allowing us to see what might possibly be that stereotype as characterized by Yugioh and Red Dwarf, being:
Existential uncertainty ftw.
Charlie sheen is a pillock. For curiosity's sake though what were you referencing? 0.ojoebear15 said:ITG? and your just bitchin because you have not done any of the charlie sheen i just had imported, come on it will only melt your face a littlehem dazon 90 said:
I think the SIXAXIS worked with inFAMOUS to
but I've never been big on motion controls as a whole. Sure, it works better than analog sticks for FPSes (in Metroid Prime, anyway), but all it ever does is hurt your wrist in the long run.
Wait, what happened to the previous color-coded areas of each spokesperson that made the column very easy to read? I liked those...
direct the lightning bolt,
Wait, what happened to the previous color-coded areas of each spokesperson that made the column very easy to read? I liked those...
I'm with MovieBob on his comment on page 3. I tried to play call of duty with my cousin on his 360 the other day, and all I could think off was how much I missed aiming with the remote. I can see how someone with years worth of dual analogue stick experience would prefer what they are used to, but being relatively new to shooters and having tried dual analogue stick, wii remote aiming and mouse and keyboard, I honestly belive wii remote aiming is the most immersive of the three.
That was a good read. Would these three guys ever consider recording a skype call as an experiment? I'm fine with the present format but we'll always lose the TL;DR crowd.
I personaly agree with Yahtzee's point about a nueral interface that could allow you to control the main character as if it were your own body without the physical exertion. In this sort environment you could produce far more FTW moments as you perform some insane feats that you wouldn't atempt with your normal body.
wow. so many replies. wish there was a way to condense the feedback here for easier reading.
I think we'll see the next generation of consoles focusing on more direct player feedback innovations. Skin Conductance Level sensors built into the controllers, cameras watching you, telemetry reports sent back to central server for trending and strategy updates = all of which comes together to monitor your reactions and fit the game to you. This strikes me as clearly the next big step for video gaming (and Nintendo and Valve seem to be quietly pushing it forward).
oh, you're too fat to swing a sword? well, the game will figure that out and adjust to what you can do.
oh, you think it's fun to shoot someone online? well, how about seeing how frustrated it makes them.
EA gave a great talk at GDC about using biometrics to fine tune two of their sports franchises (proving they don't just update the roster).
Valve gave a great talk about using biometrics to modify their games while they were being played.
This leaves me baffled when anyone says console hardware has no where left to go (or guesses there's no need for new generations of hardware). These people are drinking the sony microsoft kool-aid, and think video games are just as boring to support as Blurays and web browsers. Only Nintendo seems to understand that video games are wildly different animal, with different platform needs.
I think we'll see the next generation of consoles focusing on more direct player feedback innovations. Skin Conductance Level sensors built into the controllers, cameras watching you, telemetry reports sent back to central server for trending and strategy updates = all of which comes together to monitor your reactions and fit the game to you. This strikes me as clearly the next big step for video gaming (and Nintendo and Valve seem to be quietly pushing it forward).
oh, you're too fat to swing a sword? well, the game will figure that out and adjust to what you can do.
oh, you think it's fun to shoot someone online? well, how about seeing how frustrated it makes them.
EA gave a great talk at GDC about using biometrics to fine tune two of their sports franchises (proving they don't just update the roster).
Valve gave a great talk about using biometrics to modify their games while they were being played.
This leaves me baffled when anyone says console hardware has no where left to go (or guesses there's no need for new generations of hardware). These people are drinking the sony microsoft kool-aid, and think video games are just as boring to support as Blurays and web browsers. Only Nintendo seems to understand that video games are wildly different animal, with different platform needs.
I think that move/wiimote are only good for casual games or maybe local multiplayer. I don't see much potential outside that... Kinect might have some extra potencial but not for controlling the game... maybe for reading facial expressions like "fear" or "tension" and make the game react accordingly... For me that's the biggest potential of kinect.
One thing that was briefly touched upon at the end of Yahtzee's last post was the lack of physical feedback. This has always been one of the biggest things that I hate about motion controls. If you hit someone with a sword, it usually gets stuck in them, or at least doesn't go through them as easily as it goes through air. And you see that on the screen, bu you don't feel it. To me, that actually detracts from immersion, rather than adding to it. Maybe a controller with gyroscopes in it or something that could give more feedback than just vibration would work, or maybe we'll have to wait until holodecks that actually put matter in the way.
Also, one thing that I've always been a little annoyed about is how dismissive of EA Sports games MovieBob is. I had been getting their NHL games for the PC since the mid to late 90's (i.e. so long ago I can't remember when. I was born in 1992), and when they stopped releasing them for the PC after 2008 when the release NHL 09 (for the 2008-2009 season) I was pissed. Not because I wouldn't get roster updates anymore. I can still get those. For free. (thebreakaway.net for anyone who's interested). I like getting the new games the same way that he likes getting the newest Super Mario game. It's not that different, but it has some nice little extra features that (hopefully) fix the annoying bits from the previous game, or add some new bits that make it more fun. Really, it's closer to an expensive bug fix than an expensive roster update.
Finally, Yahtzee mentioned something about how he hates motion controls because they "hamper [his] fat, flabby, unattractive form." I think the response to that would be: if you had to suffer through the moving around for long enough, you would no longer have a fat, flabby, unattractive form. In the same way that muscly people find going to the gym and working out relaxing while also being exercise, or playing a sport relaxing and exercise, you could find a couple hours on Black Ops to be a relaxing form of exercise. Well, only relaxing if you don't listen to the racist, misogynistic 10-year-olds that frequent XBL. *ahem* Anyway, yeah, exercise is good for you, and if you could make Halo good for you, wouldn't you be more likely to play it, because then you could rationalize it to yourself? I understand the argument that the point of a video game is to be someone who's better at something than you are, and I fully agree with that argument. But surely, there has to be a middle ground, between hitting a button to make the on-screen sniper kill someone and actually having the on-screen sniper be as good at killing someone as you yourself would be. That last sentence came out more frightening than intended, but you get the point. Sort of a Wii Fit thing, except its hidden in an FPS? You're getting healthier, and as you get healthier, you get better at the game as well.
Crap. I'm rambling. Better hit "Post" before it's too late.
Well, okay, maybe I'll "Preview" it first, to see if I did anything wrong. Aah! I'm still going! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH-----
Also, one thing that I've always been a little annoyed about is how dismissive of EA Sports games MovieBob is. I had been getting their NHL games for the PC since the mid to late 90's (i.e. so long ago I can't remember when. I was born in 1992), and when they stopped releasing them for the PC after 2008 when the release NHL 09 (for the 2008-2009 season) I was pissed. Not because I wouldn't get roster updates anymore. I can still get those. For free. (thebreakaway.net for anyone who's interested). I like getting the new games the same way that he likes getting the newest Super Mario game. It's not that different, but it has some nice little extra features that (hopefully) fix the annoying bits from the previous game, or add some new bits that make it more fun. Really, it's closer to an expensive bug fix than an expensive roster update.
Finally, Yahtzee mentioned something about how he hates motion controls because they "hamper [his] fat, flabby, unattractive form." I think the response to that would be: if you had to suffer through the moving around for long enough, you would no longer have a fat, flabby, unattractive form. In the same way that muscly people find going to the gym and working out relaxing while also being exercise, or playing a sport relaxing and exercise, you could find a couple hours on Black Ops to be a relaxing form of exercise. Well, only relaxing if you don't listen to the racist, misogynistic 10-year-olds that frequent XBL. *ahem* Anyway, yeah, exercise is good for you, and if you could make Halo good for you, wouldn't you be more likely to play it, because then you could rationalize it to yourself? I understand the argument that the point of a video game is to be someone who's better at something than you are, and I fully agree with that argument. But surely, there has to be a middle ground, between hitting a button to make the on-screen sniper kill someone and actually having the on-screen sniper be as good at killing someone as you yourself would be. That last sentence came out more frightening than intended, but you get the point. Sort of a Wii Fit thing, except its hidden in an FPS? You're getting healthier, and as you get healthier, you get better at the game as well.
Crap. I'm rambling. Better hit "Post" before it's too late.
Well, okay, maybe I'll "Preview" it first, to see if I did anything wrong. Aah! I'm still going! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH-----
I didn't feel like going over 11 pages of posts so if someone posted these little things already, boo me.
First off, to Yahtzee's last comment; Emotiv, while far from perfected, is a control method that removes the need for any action period. Be it hands or flailing with a remote or just your unfit body, your thoughts are the control. Again though, it's horribly laggy and isn't useable in twitch based gaming like most modern shooters.
Still lacks feedback of any kind, aside from the visual satisfaction of seeing the stuff you made happen, happen. Most people never really followed up on this tidbit, but in 2000 a US West Coast based company tried to find a non-surgical method to trigger the five senses on the brain.
IE; directly input the images from a camera into the brain of a blind person.
They had some success with precise ultrasound waves, and figured that they could stimulate all five senses given the research time. While it was medical research, they knew it had potential for VR. Now the part that most miss, a well known Japanese company bought up this little independant medical research firm to use in a few possible forms, but ended up not going anywhere with it. Neither medical or virtual reality.
That company was none other than Sony.
Mayhaps they didn't merely sit on this and are waiting for the perfect time to releae it...or I'm just being a little too hopeful in a multi billion dollar company to take a gamble like that.
Again, I was too lazy to check if someone else mentioned this, if one did, ignore this one.
Just keep in mind you had to get this far to read that part.
First off, to Yahtzee's last comment; Emotiv, while far from perfected, is a control method that removes the need for any action period. Be it hands or flailing with a remote or just your unfit body, your thoughts are the control. Again though, it's horribly laggy and isn't useable in twitch based gaming like most modern shooters.
Still lacks feedback of any kind, aside from the visual satisfaction of seeing the stuff you made happen, happen. Most people never really followed up on this tidbit, but in 2000 a US West Coast based company tried to find a non-surgical method to trigger the five senses on the brain.
IE; directly input the images from a camera into the brain of a blind person.
They had some success with precise ultrasound waves, and figured that they could stimulate all five senses given the research time. While it was medical research, they knew it had potential for VR. Now the part that most miss, a well known Japanese company bought up this little independant medical research firm to use in a few possible forms, but ended up not going anywhere with it. Neither medical or virtual reality.
That company was none other than Sony.
Mayhaps they didn't merely sit on this and are waiting for the perfect time to releae it...or I'm just being a little too hopeful in a multi billion dollar company to take a gamble like that.
Again, I was too lazy to check if someone else mentioned this, if one did, ignore this one.
Just keep in mind you had to get this far to read that part.
I'm pretty much with Yahtzee on this one. I think that motion controls are at best a niche thing: they may make sense for certain genres of games but not others. If they just focus on making, for example, swordfighting a seamless experience, then motion controls might actually be a fun addition to gaming. As it is now, they're just a gimmick, and I sure as shit won't be playing ME3 with anything but a good ol'-fashioned Xbox controller.
Perhaps if they made a game where you're a pornstar or a peeping tom, the furious jacking off that accompanies any attempt to use a Wiimote would make sense too.
Perhaps if they made a game where you're a pornstar or a peeping tom, the furious jacking off that accompanies any attempt to use a Wiimote would make sense too.
I agree that motion controls may hurt escapism, but when you're looking to have some fun while exercising, a run-and-gun game would be AWESOME! Just let me shoot things while I do it, and I may actually enjoy jogging!
