Consumer rights: Updates that make a purchased game worse or completely break it.

[WeepingAngels]

I have two examples but the potential is endless.

1) I am Setsuna, it ran perfectly when I bought it but an update broke it for graphics card. Something about requiring a higher version of Direct X than my card could handle. The game simply doesn't load. I paid $40 when it came out and I consider that outright theft. Steam said no to a refund due to me playing for more than 2 hours and having bought a year or two ago.

2) I just fired up Skip Bo Pro on my iPad after not having played for several months. When I started a solo game (a game against the AI) I was greeted with a micro transaction prompt asking if I wanted to buy a new hand (yes, asking if I wanted to cheat). When I bought the game long ago, it didn't have micro transactions or I would not have bought it. You will see this prompt every time you start a new game. Since it's a card game the games don't last more than 10 minutes so you will be starting new games often.

In both cases there is no way to roll back the update. Further, if something like this happens to an online game, having the latest update is required to play online so in those cases you would lose part of the game if you rolled back a bad update.

To me this is a consumer rights issue, what say you guys?

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Eh? The first one yeah, the second no.

Companies are entitled to make their games worse if they want. Broken, no. But Steam doesn't care about consumer rights at all. I have Stubbs the Zombie on steam, and the game is broken. Its not supported on any PC format. Steam didn't care when they released it, the Devs have said they don't intend to fix it, and no refunds.

That's just the way of things. Sometimes you get a lemon. Sometimes devs fuck up their own game. Happens sadly.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Eh? The first one yeah, the second no.

Companies are entitled to make their games worse if they want. Broken, no. But Steam doesn't care about consumer rights at all. I have Stubbs the Zombie on steam, and the game is broken. Its not supported on any PC format. Steam didn't care when they released it, the Devs have said they don't intend to fix it, and no refunds.

That's just the way of things. Sometimes you get a lemon. Sometimes devs fuck up their own game. Happens sadly.

I think eventually the courts need to decide a few things since digital distribution is becoming more common.

- How long can a consumer expect to have access to a purchased digital game
- Consumers must be allowed to rollback updates that have undesirable effects
- All purchased games must remain yours, even if the account is banned from new purchases. I have heard stories of people having their PSN account hacked and Sony just closing it. They lose everything. Please don't tell me that stacking passwords is the answer. Two Step authentication is a band aid, nothing more. Three step identification would just be a bigger band aid.
- I am sure there are more that I am not thinking of.

Breaking a purchased game with an update and not allowing consumers to roll back the update is the same as coming to my house and damaging my physical disc.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Can't you un-update it? Run the vanilla 1.0 version with auto installed updates off or something?

 

[WeepingAngels]

Can't you un-update it? Run the vanilla 1.0 version with auto installed updates off or something?

Not on Steam. Steam has become just another walled garden.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Can't you un-update it? Run the vanilla 1.0 version with auto installed updates off or something?

Not on Steam. Steam has become just another walled garden.

I know I can uninstall patches on my ps3. It doesn't let you choose and you gotta always go down to 1.0 but...yeah. It sounds weird that you can't do such a thing on your pc.

 

[Chaosian]

It might not be a particularly fair example but Fallout 4 quite infamously had about 4 or 5 updates that completely screwed over modders, and how mods are implemented. Not fun to waste an entire weekend reinstalling everything related to the game, trying to fix it.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Can't you un-update it? Run the vanilla 1.0 version with auto installed updates off or something?

Not on Steam. Steam has become just another walled garden.

Yes you can. Go to the "updates" thingy and select the drop down list where you can opt into beta updates. You can select older ones from a list there.

No you can't. I just checked. There is nothing in the Beta drop down box except None- Opt out of all beta programs.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I have two examples but the potential is endless.

1) I am Setsuna, it ran perfectly when I bought it but an update broke it for graphics card. Something about requiring a higher version of Direct X than my card could handle. The game simply doesn't load. I paid $40 when it came out and I consider that outright theft. Steam said no to a refund due to me playing for more than 2 hours and having bought a year or two ago.

2) I just fired up Skip Bo Pro on my iPad after not having played for several months. When I started a solo game (a game against the AI) I was greeted with a micro transaction prompt asking if I wanted to buy a new hand (yes, asking if I wanted to cheat). When I bought the game long ago, it didn't have micro transactions or I would not have bought it. You will see this prompt every time you start a new game. Since it's a card game the games don't last more than 10 minutes so you will be starting new games often.

In both cases there is no way to roll back the update. Further, if something like this happens to an online game, having the latest update is required to play online so in those cases you would lose part of the game if you rolled back a bad update.

To me this is a consumer rights issue, what say you guys?

nothing to add here except GoG has that as one of their features for Galaxy (their steam equivalent)

so if you like that feature, feel free to support them.

 

[MonsterCrit]

I have two examples but the potential is endless.

1) I am Setsuna, it ran perfectly when I bought it but an update broke it for graphics card. Something about requiring a higher version of Direct X than my card could handle. The game simply doesn't load. I paid $40 when it came out and I consider that outright theft. Steam said no to a refund due to me playing for more than 2 hours and having bought a year or two ago.

Any court out there would say the same. Also, there is a rider in all EULA's that pretty much covers this. Though I've yet to find this an issue. In most cases, when brought up with the developer (in a civil manner) most will just create a beta branch, for the old version. At least that's been my experience. Call it the trade off for having your games continuously updated and patched after purchase.

In both cases there is no way to roll back the update. Further, if something like this happens to an online game, having the latest update is required to play online so in those cases you would lose part of the game if you rolled back a bad update.

To me this is a consumer rights issue, what say you guys?

What you're talking about couldessentially be considered an issue of spoilage. Leep in mind the fact that say steam games are not tied to a single machine, you don't actually lose the game. You just lose the ability to play on your current rig. If you get a different rig, you can still play the game.

 

[pookie101]

It might not be a particularly fair example but Fallout 4 quite infamously had about 4 or 5 updates that completely screwed over modders, and how mods are implemented. Not fun to waste an entire weekend reinstalling everything related to the game, trying to fix it.

tends to be part and parcel of games that can be modded.. release a patch and half your mods no longer are compatible

 

[sXeth]

The first one seems pretty dodgy. More on Square though for updating a game to require a newer system arbitrarily. It'd be like if a PS4 version of a game being released patched the PS3 copy to suddenly not load. Or your bluetooth fridge suddenly requires gigabit internet lol (This is one reason having a bluetooth fridge is a dumbass idea anyway).

That said, there'd be blowback from retailers if they pulled it with hard copy stuff, and probably from MSn or Sony even on the digital side (Though there are some slides on PSN for sure. Fellow Squeenix title still has barely playable Just Cause 3 with its framerates and freezes. Freedom Cry making Ps3 release Skyrim look stable, etc)


2nd one is just prettymuch their right to make their game. Your right to stop playing the tosser/future installments. The products functional, you just dislike the new features.

 

[Benpasko]

MGSV had this really awful. The game has an online mode and an offline mode. The online mode lets you play the shitty pointless base invasion mode, basically. It also adds a huge load time (like 10+ seconds of the little sync icon in the top right before you can do anything or close the menu) to the menu that:

A) Doesn't pause the game
and
B) Will need to be opened in combat at some point in your life

Needless to say, I played through the whole game in offline mode.
But then, in an update, they changed it so that 75% of all the money you earn goes to an 'offshore' account that you can only access in online mode. To be clear, if you're playing in offline mode, they still take it.

And the game doesn't let you choose whether to spend offline or online money, and intentionally spends your offline money into the negatives even when you're in online mode. You could have ten million in offshore and 10 thousand in real money, and it would still split the cost of an upgrade 50/50, thus ensuring that if you switch to offline mode you'll have 0 dollars and take huge morale hits to all your troops.

Konami's final 'fuck you' to Kojima, indeed.

After that, I didn't finish my second playthrough of the game, and haven't played it since that patch.

 

[Bad Jim]

Rockstar removed a bunch of songs from GTA San Andreas because the licenses expired and they didn't want to renew them. If they had just removed the songs from new purchases that would have been fine, but because they didn't want to have multiple versions they just removed the songs for everyone, even those of us who purchased earlier and were legally entitled to them.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Rockstar removed a bunch of songs from GTA San Andreas because the licenses expired and they didn't want to renew them. If they had just removed the songs from new purchases that would have been fine, but because they didn't want to have multiple versions they just removed the songs for everyone, even those of us who purchased earlier and were legally entitled to them.

So now game companies are just flat out taking away legally paid for content with no compensation.

I hope I'm not the only one enraged and a bit terrified at this...

 

[WeepingAngels]

Rockstar removed a bunch of songs from GTA San Andreas because the licenses expired and they didn't want to renew them. If they had just removed the songs from new purchases that would have been fine, but because they didn't want to have multiple versions they just removed the songs for everyone, even those of us who purchased earlier and were legally entitled to them.

So now game companies are just flat out taking away legally paid for content with no compensation.

I hope I'm not the only one enraged and a bit terrified at this...

I am too and I hope two things happen. 1) Gamers stop rolling over and defending shit like this. 2) Someone with the money takes this kind of thing to court.

 

[WeepingAngels]

2nd one is just prettymuch their right to make their game. Your right to stop playing the tosser/future installments. The products functional, you just dislike the new features.

New feature eh? Ok, let's say your car gets an update that requires you to listen to an ad before you are allowed to use the radio and this occurs every time you start the car. Now if you don't like this 'feature' you can stop using the radio. Cool with that?

 

[darkrage6]

I heard that the digital versions of GTA San Andreas got worse as patches actually removed songs from the game and added in glitches.