Consumer rights: Updates that make a purchased game worse or completely break it.

[MrFalconfly]

The product was altered after purchase to the point that it no longer works on the same hardware it worked on at the time of purchase. Where do you stand with that?

Where do you stand with an amusement park removing rides and adding new ones? With gyms changing equipment?

You are avoiding the question with terrible comparisons, I think I have your answer.

If you updated your game, it's entirely on you that it doesn't work with your computer anymore. You had the option to not install the update, and you chose otherwise. Your action is what broke the game for your computer.

Steam auto updates and there is no way to turn off updates. Steam offers three options
1) Always keep this game up to date
2) Only update this game when I launch it
3) High Priority - Always auto-update this game before others

edit: Even if it auto-updated, it was still a choice of yours to enable (or not disable) auto-updates. That's not an excuse either.

It's not really a choice.

Offline mode is a thing that exists. Games can't update if you launch it offline.

However, even if there truly was no way to stop auto-updates, you purchased a game that uses the Steam platform. You know that the Steam platform auto-updates. Don't complain when the game you purchased then redeemed on Steam proceeds to auto-update. Again, you made the decision to partake in this service.

Let's make another analogy.

Your game is like your car, and the patch is like the car-maker doing a recall to fix some kind of flaw.

Here in Europe (at least here in Denmark), if the car then came back with a fault it didn't have before the recall (say, the transmission now seizes up, every 50km pf non-stop driving) you're entitled to either have that fault fixed free of charge, or get your money back.

I think the same should apply to games, and according to EU law, it partially does.

 

[Avnger]

Offline mode is a thing that exists. Games can't update if you launch it offline.

However, even if there truly was no way to stop auto-updates, you purchased a game that uses the Steam platform. You know that the Steam platform auto-updates. Don't complain when the game you purchased then redeemed on Steam proceeds to auto-update. Again, you made the decision to partake in this service.

Let's make another analogy.

Your game is like your car, and the patch is like the car-maker doing a recall to fix some kind of flaw.

Here in Europe (at least here in Denmark), if the car then came back with a fault it didn't have before the recall (say, the transmission now seizes up, every 50km pf non-stop driving) you're entitled to either have that fault fixed free of charge, or get your money back.

I think the same should apply to games, and according to EU law, it partially does.

Except the game didn't have any faults when patched. Not working on the specific PC configuration #3e04dc929a14 isn't something wrong with the game; it's something wrong with the rig. No game is ever guaranteed to work on every single PC. The day that becomes enshrined in law is the day that devs stop making PC games.

To try and not torture your new car analogy too much: The recall fix ended up slightly lessening the maximum torque in order to stop potential engine fires. Your home happens to have a very steep driveway that the unfixed vehicle could reach the top of. Now the car can't do that because of the lessened performance. The manufacturer sure isn't going to "unfix" your car for free, and you would never win in court arguing that not being able to reach the top of your drive requires compensation or is against your rights.

Offline mode is a thing that exists. Games can't update if you launch it offline.

However, even if there truly was no way to stop auto-updates, you purchased a game that uses the Steam platform. You know that the Steam platform auto-updates. Don't complain when the game you purchased then redeemed on Steam proceeds to auto-update. Again, you made the decision to partake in this service.

The game is unavailable physically. Are you listening to yourself? You think people who buy games on Steam should have no consumer rights?

Of course I listen to myself. It's my favorite thing in the world to do

Here's the problem with your reasoning. You have no rights to play any videogame you want. Again, we're still ignoring that offline mode would fix your issues, but I digress. People buying games on Steam have consumer rights (duh). However, the part of the Steam service is automatic updates. You have 2 options if you don't want your game to be auto-updated.

1. Don't buy the damn game. The fact that it's only sold on Steam means absolutely nothing; you don't have a right to use any product in any way that you want. The same way that me wanting to play Bloodborne would require buying a Playstation 4, so I'm SOL.

2. Run the game while in offline mode. Steam doesn't even attempt to try and update any games launched while in offline mode.

Your anger has nothing to do with your "rights" being stripped from you. You're just upset that Steam followed through on their update policy that you opted into.

 

[MrFalconfly]

Offline mode is a thing that exists. Games can't update if you launch it offline.

However, even if there truly was no way to stop auto-updates, you purchased a game that uses the Steam platform. You know that the Steam platform auto-updates. Don't complain when the game you purchased then redeemed on Steam proceeds to auto-update. Again, you made the decision to partake in this service.

Let's make another analogy.

Your game is like your car, and the patch is like the car-maker doing a recall to fix some kind of flaw.

Here in Europe (at least here in Denmark), if the car then came back with a fault it didn't have before the recall (say, the transmission now seizes up, every 50km pf non-stop driving) you're entitled to either have that fault fixed free of charge, or get your money back.

I think the same should apply to games, and according to EU law, it partially does.

Except the game didn't have any faults when patched. Not working on the specific PC configuration #3e04dc929a14 isn't something wrong with the game; it's something wrong with the rig. No game is ever guaranteed to work on every single PC. The day that becomes enshrined in law is the day that devs stop making PC games.

To try and not torture your new car analogy too much: The recall fix ended up slightly lessening the maximum torque in order to stop potential engine fires. Your home happens to have a very steep driveway that the unfixed vehicle could reach the top of. Now the car can't do that because of the lessened performance. The manufacturer sure isn't going to "unfix" your car for free, and you would never win in court arguing that not being able to reach the top of your drive requires compensation or is against your rights.

"Except the game didn't have any faults when patched. Not working on the specific PC configuration #3e04dc929a14 isn't something wrong with the game;"

In the eyes of European consumer protection laws, it very much IS something wrong with the game.

I feel so sorry for you yanks, that you've been duped to think otherwise.

"To try and not torture your new car analogy too much: The recall fix ended up slightly lessening the maximum torque in order to stop potential engine fires."

Fair enough, but according to EU law, you're now obliged to figure out a solution that both gives me that torque, and prevents engine fires.

"Your home happens to have a very steep driveway that the unfixed vehicle could reach the top of. Now the car can't do that because of the lessened performance. The manufacturer sure isn't going to "unfix" your car for free, and you would never win in court arguing that not being able to reach the top of your drive requires compensation or is against your rights."

I would win in a court, if it was a European court.

 

[Avnger]

Offline mode is a thing that exists. Games can't update if you launch it offline.

However, even if there truly was no way to stop auto-updates, you purchased a game that uses the Steam platform. You know that the Steam platform auto-updates. Don't complain when the game you purchased then redeemed on Steam proceeds to auto-update. Again, you made the decision to partake in this service.

Let's make another analogy.

Your game is like your car, and the patch is like the car-maker doing a recall to fix some kind of flaw.

Here in Europe (at least here in Denmark), if the car then came back with a fault it didn't have before the recall (say, the transmission now seizes up, every 50km pf non-stop driving) you're entitled to either have that fault fixed free of charge, or get your money back.

I think the same should apply to games, and according to EU law, it partially does.

Except the game didn't have any faults when patched. Not working on the specific PC configuration #3e04dc929a14 isn't something wrong with the game; it's something wrong with the rig. No game is ever guaranteed to work on every single PC. The day that becomes enshrined in law is the day that devs stop making PC games.

To try and not torture your new car analogy too much: The recall fix ended up slightly lessening the maximum torque in order to stop potential engine fires. Your home happens to have a very steep driveway that the unfixed vehicle could reach the top of. Now the car can't do that because of the lessened performance. The manufacturer sure isn't going to "unfix" your car for free, and you would never win in court arguing that not being able to reach the top of your drive requires compensation or is against your rights.

"Except the game didn't have any faults when patched. Not working on the specific PC configuration #3e04dc929a14 isn't something wrong with the game;"

In the eyes of European consumer protection laws, it very much IS something wrong with the game.

I feel so sorry for you yanks, that you've been duped to think otherwise.

"To try and not torture your new car analogy too much: The recall fix ended up slightly lessening the maximum torque in order to stop potential engine fires."

Fair enough, but according to EU law, you're now obliged to figure out a solution that both gives me that torque, and prevents engine fires.

"Your home happens to have a very steep driveway that the unfixed vehicle could reach the top of. Now the car can't do that because of the lessened performance. The manufacturer sure isn't going to "unfix" your car for free, and you would never win in court arguing that not being able to reach the top of your drive requires compensation or is against your rights."

I would win in a court, if it was a European court.

That's the funny thing about "inalienable rights." They always seem to differ based on where you're from somehow.

Admittedly, I was (am) making my arguments from the POV of an American. That's for a couple of reasons: I don't have a true handle on European laws and Weeping is also from the US. America does need better laws more in line with those being passed by the EU, but until (if) Congress can be convinced to get off its ass and pass some, we're stuck with what we have.

 

[MrFalconfly]

That's the funny thing about "inalienable rights." They always seem to differ based on where you're from somehow.

Admittedly, I was (am) making my arguments from the POV of an American. That's for a couple of reasons: I don't have a true handle on European laws and Weeping is also from the US. America does need better laws more in line with those being passed by the EU, but until (if) Congress can be convinced to get off its ass and pass some, we're stuck with what we have.

Well good luck.

I hope that sometime in the future, you may get a proper consumer-advocates lobby-group into Congress to actually give the consumers a voice against the big corporate lobbyists who seem to be dominating everything in US legislature currently.

Best of luck to ya.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

Found the right video! I think everyone in this thread needs to watch this.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Found the right video! I think everyone in this thread needs to watch this.

This video is flawed, it assumes that all versions MUST be officially maintained. It ignores that the first suggestion from tech support is always 'make sure you have the latest version installed'. In other words, tech support is saying that only the latest version will be supported. No one is expecting any company to support ALL versions of any software.

I don't care enough about MMO's to comment on them (which this video conveniently focuses on) but for single player games like I am Setsuna there is no good reason to lock people out of older versions. Letting people play older versions of games does not have to be officially supported but actively preventing people from rolling back an update is anti-consumer. Breaking a game on hardware it once worked on is nothing more than theft and I bet that this would be less in dispute if it happened on a console.

The video tells us all about how forced updates benefit corporations but it really doesn't give the consumer side as much thought.