The best part: gaming heritage. The fact that someone said that without using air quotes and without being called out on it is a victory for gaming as a an art form.
Baseless? I thought Yathzee justified it pretty well. To be immersed in a game, you have to feel connected directly with the action on screen. The game should be about thinking "move left, move right, jump" (or insert other genre-appropriate paradigm here), rather than thinking "push the left thumbstick to the left". But Wii Tennis, fun as it is, is all about the motion. It's not a fun game because the game itself is the best tennis game out there. If you somehow played with a classic controller, Wii Tennis would be destroyed easily by other tennis games, as it would mostly come down to single button presses. (With perhaps tilting a stick to indicate swing angle)Ferisar said:Wait. Wait wait.
Silent Hill 2 and Wii Tennis aren't on the same level of immersion because of controls?
Yeah, no.
Not buying that. That's a really -really- baseless comment.
Thorvan said:My only answer to this is... so? Just because we get simplified controllers does not mean that A; we lose the more complex ones, or B; it will result in necessarily worse experiences. There are significant markets for both the simplified and the complex input devices, for a smattering of reasons; and if we pressure game developers to provide a conduit for both of these in their games, what exactly is the downside?
In Dragon Age II, you can either take the whole hack-and-slash route (which is more oriented towards console gamers) or the whole finely-tuned micromanaging tactical route (which is suited better for the K&M setup). Then again, it's Bioware we're talking about, who's not known for shitty ports and actually makes proper multiplatform games. But what's to say that other devs will go through the trouble to cater to two entirely different fighting mechanisms?Easton Dark said:Start a new gamer onto S.T.A.L.K.E.R SOC and just wait a few hours.
Heck, even I get flustered by the number of hotkeys sometimes. Can't remember what's bandages and what's medkits.
Thank you so much for mentioning those games. I am a massive fan of pre guitar hero harmonix and actually completely disagree with bob. I play all the guitar HERO GAMES WITHOUT THE SILLY GUITAR!!!! Argghh I rage so much (probably cos i don't really like the music in the guitar hero games) but wish they'd make a true sequal to amplitude. I suppose i'll just have to stick with gitaroo man from now on....Korne said:Bob brought up that GH might not even work if it didn't have the controller. I disagree with this. Harmonix had made 2 fantastic rhythm games before Guitar Hero using basically the same highway of notes (Frequency and Amplitude). Everyone that I have showed the games to have become immediatly hooked, since they are really fun games (just like Guitar Hero). What the guitar controller did was serve as a hook and took out the foreign nature of a video game controller (people kinda get the guitar motion).
That is a very arguable point, because I have tried to familiarize myself with both. It's quite difficult to say which one is more expensive because of the time that some of the comic book characters have been around it's quite expensive to purchase all of their comic books, even as re-prints. Where-as some console game's that aren't re-printed are considered "rare" and then relatively expensive but still available on places like amazon.Movie Bob said:Right now, it's both easier and slightly less-expensive to familiarize oneself with comic-book continuity than it is with game-to-game continuity...
Because it is a discussion not a debate or argument.Sovereignty said:Point: Movie Bob.
Seriously why isn't there a voting for who won this discussion!?
So?Rassmusseum said:...Because its not a competition, dude.Sovereignty said:Seriously why isn't there a voting for who won this discussion!?
Actually when I was playing the DA2 PS3 demo the first thing I thought when the gameplay started was, "this combat system has been dumbed down for the PCs." I had to pause a moment after I thought that; and asked myself why I thought so.Raiyan 1.0 said:Thorvan said:My only answer to this is... so? Just because we get simplified controllers does not mean that A; we lose the more complex ones, or B; it will result in necessarily worse experiences. There are significant markets for both the simplified and the complex input devices, for a smattering of reasons; and if we pressure game developers to provide a conduit for both of these in their games, what exactly is the downside?In Dragon Age II, you can either take the whole hack-and-slash route (which is more oriented towards console gamers) or the whole finely-tuned micromanaging tactical route (which is suited better for the K&M setup). Then again, it's Bioware we're talking about, who's not known for shitty ports and actually makes proper multiplatform games. But what's to say that other devs will go through the trouble to cater to two entirely different fighting mechanisms?Easton Dark said:Start a new gamer onto S.T.A.L.K.E.R SOC and just wait a few hours.
Heck, even I get flustered by the number of hotkeys sometimes. Can't remember what's bandages and what's medkits.
Take a look at Tiberium Twilight. The game was trying to cater to both PC and console (though everyone was fired before they could finish a port) through radical changes in gameplay. The result of the more console-oriented gameplay was that it destroyed the C&C series for the PC community.
For all you know, the next Ace Combat iteration might just have QTEs for performing kulbits and pugachevs to make it more 'accessible' and to become the next 'CoD-killer'... '-_-
Well yes, I know what you mean. Like I always said, arcade combat was always suited to the controller. And it's not wrong of you to expect some good ole fashioned hack n' slash (which isn't all mindless button-smashing and can include real time tactical aspects, as Kingdom of Heaven shows).Lex Darko said:Actually when I was playing the DA2 PS3 demo the first thing I thought when the gameplay started was, "this combat system has been dumbed down for the PCs." I had to pause a moment after I thought that; and asked myself why I thought so.
And then I remembered how a truly good console style hack/slash combat system feels. I thought about the combat in Jade Empire [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJm6VXQYcfk], Demon Stone [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOG6ifU1_FM], and the Kingdom Underfire Series [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzhvu91_A0w].
DA:O's combat (played on the PC, and modded to hell and back) literally put me to sleep. DA2 is better but it's hampered by the vestiges of the old PC point and snore combat system it still has.
Though this is a nice change of pace, lets not go overboard. The only real speciallist in here is James, Bob can at most be considered a movie specialist and both Yathzee and him just happen to be game dorks that have gotten the ability to be listened in the videogame media, but both have no bloody idea about the industry or it's inner workings. Hell, Michael Pachter would be more interesting in here simply because James, an idealist and Pachter, a businessman would be a pretty interesting clash of ideas and concepts.Anacortian said:I would just like to cast my vote in favor of continuing this series. An expert opinion is great, but an expert discussion is greater still.
I'm not so sure about this point. I think hardcores are actually the ones expecting a sequel to be very similar to the previous iteration. A recent example is the unsong Civilization V fiasco, as in, a lot of hardcore fans were really disappointed with the game, but you wouldn't know about it unless you're part of the franchise's online community, since sales have been good (we're guessing the explicit casual appeal worked) and "professional reviews" praised it across the board (Tom Chick being the only mainstream exception).MovieBob said:Hardcores will benefit from developers being less able to re-press the same game as a "sequel" when the last one is sitting right there online.
I think what they were going for was more games that are simplified and just not using the whole controller for the sake of using the whole controller. I think a Prince of Persia game where all it is would be patforming: analog for moving, analog for camera, button to jump, trigger to go back in time. More games that don't feel obligated to use all 10 buttons, dual axis, and d pad. Besides, I doubt the computer gamers that issue that complaint on a regular basis would pick up said game...then again, Super Meatboy sold really well.Raiyan 1.0 said:Oh dear...
Console gamers already see PC games being brought over to their platform being 'dumbed down' because of the constraints of the controllers. If the industry tries to cater to the novice to expand the market, won't they be simplifying the controllers even further if the current ones appear 'daunting' to a rookie?