Controversial Fire Emblem: Fates Scene Dropped From Western Releases

Lizzy Finnegan

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Silentpony said:
Wait, really? That's is? She has self-conscious panic attacks around hot women and they gave her essentially mood-relaxors so she can do her job?

...and sigh we liberal, open-minded and accepting Westerners are shamming this poor woman for her condition.
I wasn't aware spiking a woman's drink with a drug that severely alters their perception to the point that men look like women could be considered "essentially mood-relaxors." Nor was I aware that that was the extent of the situation and the issues people had with the character.
 

Smooth Operator

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Well if you deal with an unstable audience this is really the only solution, and I'm guessing they will need to keep doing it for the foreseeable decade or two until people grow up.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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LifeCharacter said:
Silentpony said:
Wait, really? That's is? She has self-conscious panic attacks around hot women and they gave her essentially mood-relaxors so she can do her job?

...and sigh we liberal, open-minded and accepting Westerners are shamming this poor woman for her condition.
I wasn't aware spiking a woman's drink with a drug that severely alters their perception to the point that men look like women could be considered "essentially mood-relaxors." Nor was I aware that that was the extent of the situation and the issues people had with the character.
It doesn't actually qualify as 'spiking' the drink if the character is fully aware of it, which apparently she was. Otherwise you could say all medicine is simply a 'spike' and no one should ever drink or eat anything because they're simply 'spiking' themselves.
 

Rebel_Raven

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Drugging a person without them knowing is skeevy regardless of reasons. Hugely so in regards of trying to change them. Yeah, I know it's in good intent, but a lot of shitty, bad things can be done in good intent, too.
I can see where it might be weird to have her fall in love with the player character while appearing a a woman then turning out to be a guy and still being in love could be seen as bad. Ya know what with people thinking it's a choice and it fueling their delusions that people can be "cured" of being attracted to the same gender.

I just really hope that there can be a same sex relationship between the two.

Also kinda bummed I might miss out on gender swapped art of the male cast.
 

Andy Shandy

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Yeah, judging by what I've heard about that scene, I'm fine with them removing it. Sounds dumb more than anything.
 

RaikuFA

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Smooth Operator said:
Well if you deal with an unstable audience this is really the only solution, and I'm guessing they will need to keep doing it for the foreseeable decade or two until people grow up.
I think part of the issue is people who complained weren't the target audience. It seems its a translation error that got everyones panties in a bunch.
 

Lizzy Finnegan

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Silentpony said:
It doesn't actually qualify as 'spiking' the drink if the character is fully aware of it, which apparently she was. Otherwise you could say all medicine is simply a 'spike' and no one should ever drink or eat anything because they're simply 'spiking' themselves.
She's fully aware of it... after she's consumed it and he deigns to inform her that he spiked her drink. Not before, after.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Darth Rosenberg said:
VanQ said:
As I said, nowhere in the game is she ever confirmed to be strictly homosexual, bisexual, straight, demisexual or anything. In fact, the only confirmed relationship she can have is with the male MC, which would imply straight. But again, it's never specifically alluded to, it's just that the media spin on this has been very manipulative.
Um, or, y'know, reading the text you provided that's apparently actually in the game (re sexuality)? They're not exactly subtle about a 'straight' woman fainting around cute girls.

This isn't a major point, btw, I'm just saying you seem to be ironically misconstruing what you suggest's been misconstrued (I do think labeling the scene a 'conversion' is wide of the mark, though Nintendo using it in a statement doesn't exactly help clarify anything).
And this is where I have to bring up the big, glowing elephant in the room that everyone is blind to. This was written by Japanese writers. Japan has very different views on homosexuality and people like Soleil than the West does. Soleil is essentially a "Class-S" girl at best. She's not gay or even bisexual, she just finds pretty women aesthetically pleasing. That's it. There is no reading between the lines.

It seems contradictory and confusing, but this is also where culture clash hits badly which is something the West always has trouble admitting. In Japanese media this wouldn't be much out of the blue (it's why a stereotype in anime, games, etc has heterosexual girls sometimes feeling each other up). Furthermore, one only look to her father to see where she grew this habit and idea of girls since he's a shameless flirt. Monkey see, monkey do as they say.

Anyway, I do find it funny how people threw such a tizzy over this. This one conversation. In a game with HUNDREDS of them. Sometimes you just get a weird roll of the dice and this time it hit on this. Whatever, there are tons of other conversations and Soleil has a lot of other supports that are amusing, funny, and interesting. Then again I shouldn't be surprised at gamers once again cherry-picking certain scenes and claiming that's the only seen in the entire game. I also wouldn't be surprised if the people who complained about this scene are going to be the ones to complain about it being altered for localization. Just can't win, can we? I know I'll be enjoying the game next month regardless because Intelligent Systems is looking to give Awakening a run for its money and it being written by one of my favorite manga writers is only icing on the cake.
 

Erttheking

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Aiddon said:
I also wouldn't be surprised if the people who complained about this scene are going to be the ones to complain about it being altered for localization.
What? The only people complaining about it being changed right now are the people who didn't have a problem with it. Where did that assumption even come from? The "This is wrong" and "Nothing should ever be changed" crowd very rarely have overlap.

As for "this one conversation in a game with hundreds" I have to say that's an odd stance to take. If there had only been five conversations would this have been a more appropriate conversation to have? People are in a tizzy because this is the Escapist and outrage is the only thing that can get a thread to last longer than 20 posts. We've pretty much developed and outrage culture online.
 

Erttheking

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Smooth Operator said:
Well if you deal with an unstable audience this is really the only solution, and I'm guessing they will need to keep doing it for the foreseeable decade or two until people grow up.
People having an issue with a character being unknowingly drugged and it leading to that person falling in love with the person who drugged them? I fail to see how people People need to "grow up." Or how this audience is "unstable."
 

Zontar

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erttheking said:
The "This is wrong" and "Nothing should ever be changed" crowd very rarely have overlap.
When it comes to a specific instance, this is true, but we did see this exact situation in regards to Steven Universe's UK broadcast as the people who where of the "this is wrong" mentality for other products being localized where suddenly of the "nothing should ever be changed" mentality for that issue. Was pretty hilarious to watch.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Zontar said:
erttheking said:
The "This is wrong" and "Nothing should ever be changed" crowd very rarely have overlap.
When it comes to a specific instance, this is true, but we did see this exact situation in regards to Steven Universe's UK broadcast as the people who where of the "this is wrong" mentality for other products being localized where suddenly of the "nothing should ever be changed" mentality for that issue. Was pretty hilarious to watch.
Having been a part of the gaming community for many years, it happens like clockwork. Because we really are that fickle and shallow and we need to fix that.
 

Erttheking

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Zontar said:
erttheking said:
The "This is wrong" and "Nothing should ever be changed" crowd very rarely have overlap.
When it comes to a specific instance, this is true, but we did see this exact situation in regards to Steven Universe's UK broadcast as the people who where of the "this is wrong" mentality for other products being localized where suddenly of the "nothing should ever be changed" mentality for that issue. Was pretty hilarious to watch.
I was in that thread and more remember the "this is wrong" crowd sticking by their guns for the most part and saying "That's not what censorship is." I myself said that it wasn't censorship, even though it pissed me off. And then it went off the rails into talking about how "sexual" the scene was. Honestly half of the debates regarding stuff like this revolves more around "What's censorship?" and "should censorship be bad unconditionally or conditionally?" along with a ton of other baggage that gets brought up. Like everything else, we don't want to argue the thing we're specifically talking about half the time and we want to go back to the overall us vs them battleground.
 

NPC009

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MarsAtlas said:
RJ 17 said:
Anyone know when Fire Emblem went from a tactical RPG to a dating sim? I haven't played an FE since the first one and I don't recall there being relationships in it...just a straight-forward paper-rock-scissors tactical RPG with perma-death.
Awakening. Sure there were always support conversations (Ike x Soren is canon and none of y'all can prove otherwise) but it didn't turn into an important mechanic until then.
You get a high five for the mention of Ike x Soren, but I'm going to have to act like an annoying nerd and point out support convos served an important purpose in the fourth game, Seisen no Keifu. There's a timeskip halfway through and you play the second half with the second generation of character. If you did not pair people up to make babies, you're stuck with crappy no-name replacements.
 

BX3

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Oh yeah, this scene. I remember it being brought up in a convo in some other thread. 'Twas a couple months ago when the game came out in Nippon Land. I remember how silly I found the entire situation regarding it. Not... much has changed since then if I'm being honest.

That said, as much as pointless as I find it, I'd actually much rather Nintendo get rid of it than have to deal with the absolute PR NIGHTMARE that'd probably come with this. Other companies could probably sidestep it just fine, but this is a 1st party title from Nintendo. God, can you imagine? The screams of censorship are a lot easier to deal with than the screams of... whatever this'll get pegged with. Just as well, anime fans and players of these types of games have enough trouble explaining their hobby to people, so Nintendo's fuckery actually kinda helps broaden its appeal in that regard.

It's kinda like whole Swimsuit thing in Maiden of Black Water. Yeah, I think the change is dumb, but kripes, do I ever get it.
 

Ukomba

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It actually sounds kind of cute. Doesn't it go to the whole, love a person for who they are not what they are thing? Seems overly sensitive.

I'm wondering what the reaction would be if it were a straight character this happened to.
 

Casual Shinji

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The statement appears to refer to a scene in which an apparent gay character, Soleil, has her drink spiked with a "magic powder" that makes women appear to Soleil as men, and men appear as women. This is done by the protagonist, in an effort to help the character, who is having difficulty speaking with other women.
Wut?

Even disregarding the whole gay conversion angle... just, why?!

I don't know, maybe this type of convoluted writing is part of this series, cuz holy smokes!
 

spartandude

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Yh I can kind of see why this was taken out. Personally I don't think it's that bad or offensive (should point out that I myself am Bi. Also I have anxiety issues and find it difficult to talk with out stammering really badly without meds) but I can see why quite a few people would be offended or see this as "gay conversion therapy"

Ukomba said:
It actually sounds kind of cute. Doesn't it go to the whole, love a person for who they are not what they are thing? Seems overly sensitive.

I'm wondering what the reaction would be if it were a straight character this happened to.
I tend to agree but there are some area's where this can hit really close to home for some people so I do understand why it was taken out.
 

Erttheking

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Ukomba said:
It actually sounds kind of cute. Doesn't it go to the whole, love a person for who they are not what they are thing? Seems overly sensitive.

I'm wondering what the reaction would be if it were a straight character this happened to.
I could appreciate that, but considering that a drug that altered someone's perspective and was given to her without her consent or knowledge was involved...that's just creepy on so many levels.
 

Darth Rosenberg

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Aiddon said:
Soleil is essentially a "Class-S" girl at best. She's not gay or even bisexual, she just finds pretty women aesthetically pleasing. That's it. There is no reading between the lines.
Is class-S something in the game?

How on earth does "aesthetically pleasing" translate to 'I can't do my job or function properly without being drugged into a semi gender swapped reality'?

Anyway, I do find it funny how people threw such a tizzy over this.
I don't see a tizzy - at least not in this thread. I see a discussion.