Controversial God of War: Ascension Trophy To Be Renamed

[Magicman10893]

So the fury isn't a prostitute cause you beat her up she's a prostitute cause her son helps you over his mother. Glad you cleared that up.

That is not the point he was clearing up. The trophy refers to the actions of Orkos, who after sympathizing with Kratos, betrays the Furies to help Kratos. The phrase itself, "Bros before Hos," is used when deciding to favor one's male friend (Bro) over a female (Ho*). In this context, the trophy name is rather fitting.

*Ho can, and is often, used to describe women that aren't very nice. "Ho" usually, especially in this context, refers to the controlling, bitchy women rather than a blanket statement used for all women or as another slang term for prostitute.

Also, fun fact: The phrase "Hos before Bros" is used almost as frequently.

 

[Harker067]

So the fury isn't a prostitute cause you beat her up she's a prostitute cause her son helps you over his mother. Glad you cleared that up.

That is not the point he was clearing up. The trophy refers to the actions of Orkos, who after sympathizing with Kratos, betrays the Furies to help Kratos. The phrase itself, "Bros before Hos," is used when deciding to favor one's male friend (Bro) over a female (Ho*). In this context, the trophy name is rather fitting.

*Ho can, and is often, used to describe women that aren't very nice. "Ho" usually, especially in this context, refers to the controlling, bitchy women rather than a blanket statement used for all women or as another slang term for prostitute.

Also, fun fact: The phrase "Hos before Bros" is used almost as frequently.

Ok I had walked away but people keep replying so I keep getting notifications so here's my position once again cause it still applies.

I get all that and I still think the phrase bros before hos (and bitchy for that matter) are sexist. I don't find any of the explanations given me anything more then just adding more words without addressing the problems. If I call you a "fucking retard" it doesn't matter that it can often be applied to people who just aren't getting a point in a conversation or people who are being perhaps willfully obtuse or just can't get a point in a discussion. The phrase itself has problematic issues in how we deal with mental illness and developmental delays in our society. None of the added descriptions on how the term is used affect the problems inherent within it.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Sorry I don't find beating a woman funny.

...but beating a man is a laughing riot? Its sexist to treat women as delicate little flowers, and more importantly...its a game.

OP: Misogyny? Really? Hyberbole much?

 

[jcfrommars9]

So the fury isn't a prostitute cause you beat her up she's a prostitute cause her son helps you over his mother. Glad you cleared that up.

That is not the point he was clearing up. The trophy refers to the actions of Orkos, who after sympathizing with Kratos, betrays the Furies to help Kratos. The phrase itself, "Bros before Hos," is used when deciding to favor one's male friend (Bro) over a female (Ho*). In this context, the trophy name is rather fitting.

*Ho can, and is often, used to describe women that aren't very nice. "Ho" usually, especially in this context, refers to the controlling, bitchy women rather than a blanket statement used for all women or as another slang term for prostitute.

Also, fun fact: The phrase "Hos before Bros" is used almost as frequently.

Ok I had walked away but people keep replying so I keep getting notifications so here's my position once again cause it still applies.

I get all that and I still think the phrase bros before hos (and bitchy for that matter) are sexist. I don't find any of the explanations given me anything more then just adding more words without addressing the problems. If I call you a "fucking retard" it doesn't matter that it can often be applied to people who just aren't getting a point in a conversation or people who are being perhaps willfully obtuse or just can't get a point in a discussion. The phrase itself has problematic issues in how we deal with mental illness and developmental delays in our society. None of the added descriptions on how the term is used affect the problems inherent within it.

It's not adding words in my opinion, it's explaining context. If you call someone a "fucking retard", it does matter how it is applied. This was something I was addressing in my previous post. Without context, you can't possibly ascertain the meaning. In other words, "fucking retard" doesn't by definition associate with mental illness or society's ability to deal with it but with being a idiot, moron, etc.

 

[Church185]

People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Sorry I don't find beating a woman funny.

...but beating a man is a laughing riot? Its sexist to treat women as delicate little flowers, and more importantly...its a game.

OP: Misogyny? Really? Hyberbole much?

You are right, women are free to be beaten up just as equally as men, and have been throughout gamings history. The real issue is the name of the trophy, because the trophy doesn't have anything to do with the beating.

The achievement could have been seen as offensive towards women playing the game, because it wasn't Kratos putting that text there, it was the development team. Yes Kratos can have tons of little sex mini games and beat the crap out of everyone equally because in the games context, Kratos is kind of a douche. But the development team were the ones who popped up the joke with a word that is used to dehumanize women. The changed one word in a trophies name, not change a large portion of the game or how it played. The change is insignificant, so why are you so upset that it was made in the first place?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

You are right, women are free to be beaten up just as equally as men, and have been throughout gamings history. The real issue is the name of the trophy, because the trophy doesn't have anything to do with the beating.

The achievement could have been seen as offensive towards women playing the game, because it wasn't Kratos putting that text there, it was the development team. Yes Kratos can have tons of little sex mini games and beat the crap out of everyone equally because in the games context, Kratos is kind of a douche. But the development team were the ones who popped up the joke with a word that is used to dehumanize women. The changed one word in a trophies name, not change a large portion of the game or how it played. The change is insignificant, so why are you so upset that it was made in the first place?

Dehumanize women? Who's the one that is upset, you or me? I'm not the one making such outlandish accusations.

 

[Harker067]

So the fury isn't a prostitute cause you beat her up she's a prostitute cause her son helps you over his mother. Glad you cleared that up.

That is not the point he was clearing up. The trophy refers to the actions of Orkos, who after sympathizing with Kratos, betrays the Furies to help Kratos. The phrase itself, "Bros before Hos," is used when deciding to favor one's male friend (Bro) over a female (Ho*). In this context, the trophy name is rather fitting.

*Ho can, and is often, used to describe women that aren't very nice. "Ho" usually, especially in this context, refers to the controlling, bitchy women rather than a blanket statement used for all women or as another slang term for prostitute.

Also, fun fact: The phrase "Hos before Bros" is used almost as frequently.

Ok I had walked away but people keep replying so I keep getting notifications so here's my position once again cause it still applies.

I get all that and I still think the phrase bros before hos (and bitchy for that matter) are sexist. I don't find any of the explanations given me anything more then just adding more words without addressing the problems. If I call you a "fucking retard" it doesn't matter that it can often be applied to people who just aren't getting a point in a conversation or people who are being perhaps willfully obtuse or just can't get a point in a discussion. The phrase itself has problematic issues in how we deal with mental illness and developmental delays in our society. None of the added descriptions on how the term is used affect the problems inherent within it.

It's not adding words in my opinion, it's explaining context. If you call someone a "fucking retard", it does matter how it is applied. This was something I was addressing in my previous post. Without context, you can't possibly ascertain the meaning. In other words, "fucking retard" doesn't by definition associate with mental illness or society's ability to deal with it but with being a idiot, moron, etc.

And I don't see it that way at all. If you want to say the phrase its self needs context (ie is it something someone is being called vs a larger discussion on the use of language) that is a context that can make a difference. Using the phrase as an insult in a conversation is always problematic in how we put down people with mental illness and use their difficulties as a way to insult others. What I continue to get in my opinion is context that in no way affects the problematic elements in the phrase.

There is nothing about the scene in the game or in the general use of the phrase that people have relayed to me that affects what I see as the anti-sex, anti-sexwork, anti-women, slut shaming aspects of the term hoe to refer to either female friends, lovers, monsters in any of the uses of the phrase "bros before hoes".

edit
Here I'll give you another possibility. If bros before hos was said by an obviously sexist jock the game looked down on that would be context that matters. I might still criticize it if it seemed excessive or exploitative(though misogonistic gutpunch wouldn't have been my choice of wording) but I could at least see a context argument that could be made. An achievement by the developers which also seems tonally out of place for a game in greek mythology (all beit I've only played the first maybe Kratos starts brining in lots of modern slang in the later games) doesn't seem to have a similar justification.

 

[Church185]

Dehumanize women? Who's the one that is upset, you or me? I'm not the one making such outlandish accusations.

Yes dehumanizing women. Ho is short for whore, which is a synonym of prostitute. People refer to some women as hoes, because it makes it seem like they are less of a person and shouldn't be treated with the respect they deserve.

The change was made by the development team before the game even shipped. Apparently they thought it reflected badly on them as well, because it didn't take much pressure for them to cave and change it.

 

[jcfrommars9]

So the fury isn't a prostitute cause you beat her up she's a prostitute cause her son helps you over his mother. Glad you cleared that up.

That is not the point he was clearing up. The trophy refers to the actions of Orkos, who after sympathizing with Kratos, betrays the Furies to help Kratos. The phrase itself, "Bros before Hos," is used when deciding to favor one's male friend (Bro) over a female (Ho*). In this context, the trophy name is rather fitting.

*Ho can, and is often, used to describe women that aren't very nice. "Ho" usually, especially in this context, refers to the controlling, bitchy women rather than a blanket statement used for all women or as another slang term for prostitute.

Also, fun fact: The phrase "Hos before Bros" is used almost as frequently.

Ok I had walked away but people keep replying so I keep getting notifications so here's my position once again cause it still applies.

I get all that and I still think the phrase bros before hos (and bitchy for that matter) are sexist. I don't find any of the explanations given me anything more then just adding more words without addressing the problems. If I call you a "fucking retard" it doesn't matter that it can often be applied to people who just aren't getting a point in a conversation or people who are being perhaps willfully obtuse or just can't get a point in a discussion. The phrase itself has problematic issues in how we deal with mental illness and developmental delays in our society. None of the added descriptions on how the term is used affect the problems inherent within it.

It's not adding words in my opinion, it's explaining context. If you call someone a "fucking retard", it does matter how it is applied. This was something I was addressing in my previous post. Without context, you can't possibly ascertain the meaning. In other words, "fucking retard" doesn't by definition associate with mental illness or society's ability to deal with it but with being a idiot, moron, etc.

And I don't see it that way at all. If you want to say the phrase its self needs context (ie is it something someone is being called vs a larger discussion on the use of language) that is a context that can make a difference. Using the phrase as an insult in a conversation is always problematic in how we put down people with mental illness and use their difficulties as a way to insult others. What I continue to get in my opinion is context that in no way affects the problematic elements in the phrase.

There is nothing about the scene in the game or in the general use of the phrase that people have relayed to me that affects what I see as the anti-sex, anti-sexwork, anti-women, slut shaming aspects of the term hoe to refer to either female friends, lovers, monsters in any of the uses of the phrase "bros before hoes".

The only reason why any phrase can become problematic is because of the context one associates it with. You associate hoe with anti-women among other things. So did Sessler which was why he called it a "gut punch of misogyny". I didn't because I regarded the context of the scene for which the trophy was given. If I associate a phrase with only one meaning when it has more than one, then my failure to realize that is not the other person's problem.

 

[jcfrommars9]

Dehumanize women? Who's the one that is upset, you or me? I'm not the one making such outlandish accusations.

Yes dehumanizing women. Ho is short for whore, which is a synonym of prostitute. People refer to some women as hoes, because it makes it seem like they are less of a person and shouldn't be treated with the respect they deserve.

The change was made by the development team before the game even shipped. Apparently they thought it reflected badly on them as well, because it didn't take much pressure for them to cave and change it.

Don't confuse seeing the other person's point of view with caving in. Furthermore, hoe when used as an insult is used to dehumanize whoever the word is used against. Just like a prostitute's customer is often called a trick which as as insult is used to dehumanize to a man or woman.

 

[Harker067]

So the fury isn't a prostitute cause you beat her up she's a prostitute cause her son helps you over his mother. Glad you cleared that up.

That is not the point he was clearing up. The trophy refers to the actions of Orkos, who after sympathizing with Kratos, betrays the Furies to help Kratos. The phrase itself, "Bros before Hos," is used when deciding to favor one's male friend (Bro) over a female (Ho*). In this context, the trophy name is rather fitting.

*Ho can, and is often, used to describe women that aren't very nice. "Ho" usually, especially in this context, refers to the controlling, bitchy women rather than a blanket statement used for all women or as another slang term for prostitute.

Also, fun fact: The phrase "Hos before Bros" is used almost as frequently.

Ok I had walked away but people keep replying so I keep getting notifications so here's my position once again cause it still applies.

I get all that and I still think the phrase bros before hos (and bitchy for that matter) are sexist. I don't find any of the explanations given me anything more then just adding more words without addressing the problems. If I call you a "fucking retard" it doesn't matter that it can often be applied to people who just aren't getting a point in a conversation or people who are being perhaps willfully obtuse or just can't get a point in a discussion. The phrase itself has problematic issues in how we deal with mental illness and developmental delays in our society. None of the added descriptions on how the term is used affect the problems inherent within it.

It's not adding words in my opinion, it's explaining context. If you call someone a "fucking retard", it does matter how it is applied. This was something I was addressing in my previous post. Without context, you can't possibly ascertain the meaning. In other words, "fucking retard" doesn't by definition associate with mental illness or society's ability to deal with it but with being a idiot, moron, etc.

And I don't see it that way at all. If you want to say the phrase its self needs context (ie is it something someone is being called vs a larger discussion on the use of language) that is a context that can make a difference. Using the phrase as an insult in a conversation is always problematic in how we put down people with mental illness and use their difficulties as a way to insult others. What I continue to get in my opinion is context that in no way affects the problematic elements in the phrase.

There is nothing about the scene in the game or in the general use of the phrase that people have relayed to me that affects what I see as the anti-sex, anti-sexwork, anti-women, slut shaming aspects of the term hoe to refer to either female friends, lovers, monsters in any of the uses of the phrase "bros before hoes".

The only reason why any phrase can become problematic is because of the context one associates it with. You associate hoe with anti-women among other things. So did Sessler which was why he called it a "gut punch of misogyny". I didn't because I regarded the context of the scene for which the trophy was given. If I associate a phrase with only one meaning when it has more than one, then my failure to realize that is not the other person's problem.

I see many different usages of the phrase and I see ho being used to refer to many different groups. I don't see how that ultimately changes the fact the the phrase has a anti.... (you know my list) insult towards the people you shouldn't be siding with calling them whores that I find offensive and problematic. I still see nothing in the context of the scene that affects that.

To me its the equivalent of saying well pussy can refer to many things including a cowardly person and here we have a boss running away at the end of the fight. So there is nothing wrong or sexist about using pussy in the achievement name for beating that boss. If you don't see anything wrong with the example I just wrote then have huge fundamental differences in our understanding of the use and effects of language.

 

[Tony2077]

wow talk about making a mountain out of a molehill

 

[Chaos-Spider]

And where do you exactly draw the line when you use this phrase, it apparently wasn't 'just a game' when PETA made their parody flash game of Mario slaughtering Tanuki Racoon dogs, but it's 'just a game' when a woman is beaten to death. Will it be 'just a game' pray tell if, in five to ten years time if in five-ten years time, this violence was taken to it's logical conclusion a game made you perform acts of brutality and violence that a serial killer would think depraved or unjustified, maybe with the option to put photos from your facebook friends list onto the enemies or the character in question would you still call it just a game?

Because if we don't make a stand and say that we don't want this to happen it will, and that will be the last game because YOU will have made the videogame landscape too toxic for anyone else to play.

Think about that the next time you say "It's just a game"

That has got to be one of the most epic slippery slope reasonings i've seen in a while.

Also please don't try and impose your own tastes and sensibilities on OTT gory immature products if you don't like them.
The idea of you applying this reasoning to other games is one i find far more toxic then the scenario you described.

I wasn't imposing anything, Just pointing out what the stance of "it's just a game meant. However, if this future does comes to pass I'll remember it was because of people like you.

 

[Tony2077]

And where do you exactly draw the line when you use this phrase, it apparently wasn't 'just a game' when PETA made their parody flash game of Mario slaughtering Tanuki Racoon dogs, but it's 'just a game' when a woman is beaten to death. Will it be 'just a game' pray tell if, in five to ten years time if in five-ten years time, this violence was taken to it's logical conclusion a game made you perform acts of brutality and violence that a serial killer would think depraved or unjustified, maybe with the option to put photos from your facebook friends list onto the enemies or the character in question would you still call it just a game?

Because if we don't make a stand and say that we don't want this to happen it will, and that will be the last game because YOU will have made the videogame landscape too toxic for anyone else to play.

Think about that the next time you say "It's just a game"

That has got to be one of the most epic slippery slope reasonings i've seen in a while.

Also please don't try and impose your own tastes and sensibilities on OTT gory immature products if you don't like them.
The idea of you applying this reasoning to other games is one i find far more toxic then the scenario you described.

I wasn't imposing anything, Just pointing out what the stance of "it's just a game meant. However, if this future does comes to pass I'll remember it was because of people like you.

its just a game which means it not real if you don't take it as such its best you leave gaming now

 

[jcfrommars9]

So the fury isn't a prostitute cause you beat her up she's a prostitute cause her son helps you over his mother. Glad you cleared that up.

That is not the point he was clearing up. The trophy refers to the actions of Orkos, who after sympathizing with Kratos, betrays the Furies to help Kratos. The phrase itself, "Bros before Hos," is used when deciding to favor one's male friend (Bro) over a female (Ho*). In this context, the trophy name is rather fitting.

*Ho can, and is often, used to describe women that aren't very nice. "Ho" usually, especially in this context, refers to the controlling, bitchy women rather than a blanket statement used for all women or as another slang term for prostitute.

Also, fun fact: The phrase "Hos before Bros" is used almost as frequently.

Ok I had walked away but people keep replying so I keep getting notifications so here's my position once again cause it still applies.

I get all that and I still think the phrase bros before hos (and bitchy for that matter) are sexist. I don't find any of the explanations given me anything more then just adding more words without addressing the problems. If I call you a "fucking retard" it doesn't matter that it can often be applied to people who just aren't getting a point in a conversation or people who are being perhaps willfully obtuse or just can't get a point in a discussion. The phrase itself has problematic issues in how we deal with mental illness and developmental delays in our society. None of the added descriptions on how the term is used affect the problems inherent within it.

It's not adding words in my opinion, it's explaining context. If you call someone a "fucking retard", it does matter how it is applied. This was something I was addressing in my previous post. Without context, you can't possibly ascertain the meaning. In other words, "fucking retard" doesn't by definition associate with mental illness or society's ability to deal with it but with being a idiot, moron, etc.

And I don't see it that way at all. If you want to say the phrase its self needs context (ie is it something someone is being called vs a larger discussion on the use of language) that is a context that can make a difference. Using the phrase as an insult in a conversation is always problematic in how we put down people with mental illness and use their difficulties as a way to insult others. What I continue to get in my opinion is context that in no way affects the problematic elements in the phrase.

There is nothing about the scene in the game or in the general use of the phrase that people have relayed to me that affects what I see as the anti-sex, anti-sexwork, anti-women, slut shaming aspects of the term hoe to refer to either female friends, lovers, monsters in any of the uses of the phrase "bros before hoes".

The only reason why any phrase can become problematic is because of the context one associates it with. You associate hoe with anti-women among other things. So did Sessler which was why he called it a "gut punch of misogyny". I didn't because I regarded the context of the scene for which the trophy was given. If I associate a phrase with only one meaning when it has more than one, then my failure to realize that is not the other person's problem.

I see many different usages of the phrase and I see ho being used to refer to many different groups. I don't see how that ultimately changes the fact the the phrase has a anti.... (you know my list) insult towards the people you shouldn't be siding with calling them whores that I find offensive and problematic. I still see nothing in the context of the scene that affects that.

To me its the equivalent of saying well pussy can refer to many things including a cowardly person and here we have a boss running away at the end of the fight. So there is nothing wrong or sexist about using pussy in the achievement name for beating that boss. If you don't see anything wrong with the example I just wrote then have huge fundamental differences in our understanding of the use and effects of language.

Context changes the meaning. "Bros before hoes" is offensive because of how it is used. In context to the cutscene of Orkos betraying the Furies to help Kratos, it is meant that Orkos is giving his help and loyalty to someone who has earned it (Kratos) over women (the Furies) who have done anything but. The Furies are not hoes by definition of anything to do with sex because that doesn't make sense to their characters, but they are hoes by definition that they're very bad people. Just like by more than one director of God of War saying that Kratos is a bastard. They don't mean he's a child of illegitimate parents but an asshole, an SOB, prick, etc.

I've known women to say things "don't be such a pussy" to "my dick is bigger than yours" to "take your balls out of your purse". You may find these terms offensive, even wrong (as do I) but is it likely they were trying to be sexist against their own or the male gender? No. Vulgar but not sexist.

 

[Mid Boss]

I see nothing wrong with this. I say whites over ni%#^rs all the time.

Oh wait. I keep forgetting using gender based insults are fine but using skin color based ones is off limits.

Sarcasm.

 

[Harker067]

The Furies are not hoes by definition of anything to do with sex because that doesn't make sense to their characters, but they are hoes by definition that they're very bad people.

...That's exactly what I find offensive. equating hoes with bad people is anti sex anti sexwork anti women and generally sexist sentiment. This EXACTLY why I don't find one word of explanation from any of you at all convincing or mitigating of the sexism in the statement.

Just like by more than one director of God of War saying that Kratos is a bastard. They don't mean he's a child of illegitimate parents but an asshole, an SOB, prick, etc.

I don't take offense at the term but my parents never married and my girl friend has a son from a previous relationship without any marriage. So you are infact talking to a bastard with a bastard brother and a potential future bastard son in law. Although I don't really take any offense there is something actually problematic with the general equating bastards with assholes. Which in fact has its roots in a lot of anti sex attitudes. The only reason I don't care is that people don't really look at marital status much any more.

I've known women to say things "don't be such a pussy" to "my dick is bigger than yours" to "take your balls out of your purse". You may find these terms offensive, even wrong (as do I) but is it likely they were trying to be sexist against their own or the male gender? No. Vulgar but not sexist.

Yup sexist, all of it. There's also this woman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_Schlafly who opposes equal right to women. There is nothing magical about having ovaries that means you can't be sexist or encourage sexist things against your own gender. In fact the kind of gender policing men do to other men is some of the most misandrist shit men have to deal with in our society.

 

[Zeke63]

People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Sorry I don't find beating a woman funny.

ITS A GAME, Get over it. Its in context to the game plus all this gender differentiation is tearing people apart, if you want everyone to be equal, you have to represent everyone as equal, that means getting to kill female AND male characters in games, among other things.

Ya, but that comment is just in bad taste and isn't equal.

 

[Zeke63]

The Furies are not hoes by definition of anything to do with sex because that doesn't make sense to their characters, but they are hoes by definition that they're very bad people.

...That's exactly what I find offensive. equating hoes with bad people is anti sex anti sexwork anti women and generally sexist sentiment. This EXACTLY why I don't find one word of explanation from any of you at all convincing or mitigating of the sexism in the statement.

Just like by more than one director of God of War saying that Kratos is a bastard. They don't mean he's a child of illegitimate parents but an asshole, an SOB, prick, etc.

I don't take offense at the term but my parents never married and my girl friend has a son from a previous relationship without any marriage. So you are infact talking to a bastard with a bastard brother and a potential future bastard son in law. Although I don't really take any offense there is something actually problematic with the general equating bastards with assholes. Which in fact has its roots in a lot of anti sex attitudes. The only reason I don't care is that people don't really look at marital status much any more.

I've known women to say things "don't be such a pussy" to "my dick is bigger than yours" to "take your balls out of your purse". You may find these terms offensive, even wrong (as do I) but is it likely they were trying to be sexist against their own or the male gender? No. Vulgar but not sexist.

Yup sexist, all of it. There's also this woman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_Schlafly who opposes equal right to women. There is nothing magical about having ovaries that means you can't be sexist or encourage sexist things against your own gender. In fact the kind of gender policing men do to other men is some of the most misandrist shit men have to deal with in our society.

Dude 100 percent agree. men being oppressive to other men because of sexism is so aggravating, women as well

 

[Harker067]

its just a game which means it not real if you don't take it as such its best you leave gaming now

Thank you for making the argument that games don't matter. Governments are justified in censoring and banning them on a whim because they're just games and don't matter. You can not have games as an art form with meaning and a voice worthy of defense as free speech with the argument that they are just silly games that aren't real have no impact and you can't criticize or find offense in. If video games want to be taken seriously developers and gamers need to grow up and stop treating them casual regard. Part of being worthy of existing as a form of speech is that people are going to examine critic and even criticise games for their content and message. DEAL WITH IT.