Copyright Shenanigans

Scars Unseen

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May 7, 2009
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Sleekit said:
Casadechrisso said:
Me55enger said:
Isn't it The Brothers Grimm? as in, two Mm's?
Grimm, yes. Probably misspelled for copyright reasons too.
i dunno how you think copyright works but the Brothers Grimm have been dead for 150 odd years...

in the UK there's only two written works in the English language that legally have "perpetual copyright"...The Authorized Version of The King James Bible...and Peter Pan...

in the US "perpetual copyright" is specifically prohibited by The Constitution.
Unfortunately, the US Supreme Court has already heard that argument and pretty much shot it down. There's a really good book about it(and a great many other problems with current copyright law) written by the lawyer that lost that case. It's called Free Culture and you can buy it on Amazon [http://www.amazon.com/Free-Culture-Nature-Future-Creativity/dp/0143034650/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386985333&sr=8-1&keywords=free+culture] or completely legally download it for free. [http://www.free-culture.cc/index.html]
 

immortalfrieza

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Zachary Amaranth said:
The idea of renewal is fine. It's the idea of perpetual renewal that's becoming an issue. Few people really foresaw that corporations would be renewing decades after the death of the creator.
This is the main problem with law, the people making and passing them have no F***ING CLUE what the consequences will be, including when those consequences are pathetically obvious. How stupid do the people who came up with renewals have to be to not realize that everybody is going to abuse it by going for perpetual renewal as much as possible?
 

sXeth

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Nov 15, 2012
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LordLundar said:
Sad part is the Brothers Grimms works are Public Domain but given how heavily this new setup is being abused it doesn't matter.
VideoGamesAwesome actually pointed out in their reponse video that that doesn't really matter, as they were getting 5-10 copyright claims on a Frank Sinatra song, or even Mozart from every company that had ever published a version of it. As I recall Disney has over the years tried numerous times to try and strongarm their rights over public domain fairytales to monopolize them as well.
 

soren7550

Overly Proud New Yorker
Dec 18, 2008
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... Creators like Miracle of Sound, who requires constant injections of YouTube dollars to maintain his crippling alcohol/potato addiction.
Ooh me, I laughed a lot at that.

Don't worry too much Potatiskiin, I still wuv and respect ya, it's just I'm a horrible person.
 

Nergui

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Dec 13, 2013
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Here's a related question - Could Google be a serious contender for 2014 "Worst Company in America"? Especially as EA doesn't even seem to be in the running.
 

Product Placement

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Jul 16, 2009
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Casadechrisso said:
Me55enger said:
Isn't it The Brothers Grimm? as in, two Mm's?
Grimm, yes. Probably misspelled for copyright reasons too.
LordLundar said:
Sad part is the Brothers Grimms works are Public Domain but given how heavily this new setup is being abused it doesn't matter.
Both points are true but the sadder part is that "The Goose that laid the Golden Eggs" is part of Aesop's fables. Author is obviously confusing it with the similarly named "The Golden Goose"; it's a story about a farmer's son who discovers a gold feathered goose, as a reward for sharing his meager meal with a strange little forest man, which leads to series of events that lands him a princess and a kingdom.
 

Dark Knifer

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May 12, 2009
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RJ 17 said:
It won't be long now before Youtube is for nothing but cat videos, fail videos, and cat-fail videos.

And Ray William Johnson. >.>
Isn't that the same thing really?

OT:
i hope someone like twitch can take over youtube's place. This is getting ridiculous.
 

likalaruku

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Nov 29, 2008
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Alcom1 said:
JoJo said:
I wouldn't be surprised if YouTube ends up going the way of MySpace eventually if Google doesn't sort itself out, it's been a fair few weeks and it still won't let me sort through comments left on my videos that have been 'marked as spam', even if at-least half are innocent of the accusation. Poor show all round.
So what/which alternative should be our alternative to YouTube?
I know Blip lets people monetize. They replay the same ad every 5 minutes (sometimes twice in a row) for a solid month, but it's still something. They also currently are way more lax on copyrights than Youtube. Veoh is super anal about copyrights, so they're not even an option.

Nergui said:
Here's a related question - Could Google be a serious contender for 2014 "Worst Company in America"? Especially as EA doesn't even seem to be in the running.
Absolutely. This is the 2ed thing they've done this year to generate a lot of ire, & EA is appeasing youtubers by telling them that they're cool with the videos & the monetization.
 

Boba Frag

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Dec 11, 2009
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grey_space said:
Boba Frag said:
I see what you did there Grey. Alcohol AND potatoes for Gavin, because he's Irish and that's all we survive on.
How fucking dare you.

You left out the wife beating.

EDIT:

Hopefully nobody will misunderstand the joke and sic mods on me, but for the record, I'm Irish and therefore qualified to comment on our intake of carbon based compounds.
As a fellow Irishman, I laughed.

And then cried.

And then got drunk, picked a fight, sang a song and cried some more.
I too, sang a lament while my buddies stared morosely out the window as the wind howled across the bay, watching the ships bearing the poor misfortunates on their way to Amerikay...

*looks down at the bottle*

Why are so we so fucking poetic when in tatters?

:p


CAPTCHA:

How about I spell this out instead, Captcha?
*obscene gesture*
 

gargantual

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Jul 15, 2013
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canadamus_prime said:
Copyright law as it stands is a fucking joke esp. considering that these claims have nothing to do with protecting the Intellectual Property and have everything to do with these dickhead companies wanting to ensure that only they can make money from anything remotely related to said Intellectual Property.
Or to allow any significant form of public expression. This smells of a massive censorship attack just to protect the old 'crony capitalist' standard in mainstream media. It's no wonder some of those guys were huge SOPA supporters From here to ISP's opposing net neutrality, and wanting to not be common carrier what we consume online. and publishers milking talented artists who could've taken their popularity and made their own independent media or content hubs.

It's too much.
 

loa

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Jan 28, 2012
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It's not even corporations making all the claims in all cases, youtube just fucked up majorly with their "new and improved" content ID system that is now going on a rampage.
 

MiracleOfSound

Fight like a Krogan
Jan 3, 2009
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Darth_Payn said:
OT: I'd like to hear from Gavin about this issue, if Grey is gonna name drop him.
I've had a few people tell me that their videos were claimed due to having my songs in them. It was done by my distributor without my consent or knowledge which really pisses me off as it makes me look like a dickhead to my audience.

Anyone who wants to use my songs in their vids just needs to message me and I'll give them the appropriate written permission to dispute any claims.

Unlike some big publishers, I don't hate free advertising.
 

Atmos Duality

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Mar 3, 2010
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Sleekit said:
in the US "perpetual copyright" is specifically prohibited by The Constitution.
Hah! Fat load of good it's done so far...
What's the copyright life on Mickey Mouse up to now?
 

Reed Spacer

That guy with the thing.
Jan 11, 2011
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Zachary Amaranth said:
This strip referenced YouTube. I'm afraid I have to report you (no, seriously, it's probably the law now).

MinionJoe said:
The biggest flaw in copyright law was the addition of copyright renewal.

The original intent of copyright law was to prevent hucksters from copying and profiting off of another's work. Not to perpetually lock-down creative concepts so that they can never be expanded upon.

This strip gets a 10/10. I look forward to reworking it in 20 years. ;)
The idea of renewal is fine. It's the idea of perpetual renewal that's becoming an issue. Few people really foresaw that corporations would be renewing decades after the death of the creator.

Honestly, I dislike the idea of intellectual properties being tied to a corporation, period.

CrazyGirl17 said:
Or is Youtube so focused on making money that it shills out to the copyright police?
I'm not sure shill is the right word. They're more folding. Almsot all of their decisions seem to be based on ass-covering, whether the bare ass is real or perceived.

Sleekit said:
in the US "perpetual copyright" is specifically prohibited by The Constitution.
We're Americans. We don't follow the Constitution.

Worgen said:
Well now is a perfect time for someone else to come around and create a better content streaming site. Just needs to have similar ease of use as youtube.
Consider the scope required to compete with Google, though.

Arawn said:
How can you file a claim against an interview?
When you have a broken reporting system, it's quite easy.

Unfortunately, they make it hard for you to fight it and easy for people to make claims.
I've seen videos taken down due to claims from Adolf Hitler, Darth Wannabe and QWERTY.

One particularly despicable troll was flagging charity-drive videos.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Reed Spacer said:
I've seen videos taken down due to claims from Adolf Hitler, Darth Wannabe and QWERTY.

One particularly despicable troll was flagging charity-drive videos.
...I keep trying to imagine what Hitler's claiming on YouTube, and I just...I don't want to know, I guess.

But yeah, they made it easy for pretty much anyone to file claims.
 

Reed Spacer

That guy with the thing.
Jan 11, 2011
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Reed Spacer said:
I've seen videos taken down due to claims from Adolf Hitler, Darth Wannabe and QWERTY.

One particularly despicable troll was flagging charity-drive videos.
...I keep trying to imagine what Hitler's claiming on YouTube, and I just...I don't want to know, I guess.

But yeah, they made it easy for pretty much anyone to file claims.
Yeah, but fucking charity videos.

Even for a troll, that's sick.
 

Nergui

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Dec 13, 2013
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I can't help wondering if a clever person over at TwitchTV has sent out feelers to video game related content creators on YouTube after the events of the last few days. Not offers or anything, just a "what could we do for you?" type of thing.
 

immortalfrieza

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Reed Spacer said:
I've seen videos taken down due to claims from Adolf Hitler, Darth Wannabe and QWERTY.

One particularly despicable troll was flagging charity-drive videos.
I don't know whether to laugh hysterically at the absurdity of it all or start lamenting the state of humanity... or both.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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MinionJoe said:
The biggest flaw in copyright law was the addition of copyright renewal.

The original intent of copyright law was to prevent hucksters from copying and profiting off of another's work. Not to perpetually lock-down creative concepts so that they can never be expanded upon.

This strip gets a 10/10. I look forward to reworking it in 20 years. ;)
Well, the issue of course being that IPs can endure long beyond the rights of a creator, and remain viable. Someone who is say a writer might want to leave his body of work to his family so his children and of course their children can live well. This leads to most rights becoming part of existing estates. The need for copyright renewal is simply to ensure that someone is at least claiming control of and the rights to an IP.

In principle I have no real problem with the system, my biggest problem is when you wind up with major corporations buying up the rights to everything they can get their mitts on in case it might become valuable some day. Of course at the same time you can also blame scam artists for this, because in a lot of cases corporations are covering themselves against other people moving in on their work, or claiming they invented or innovated something they did not. That and of course excessive persecution of people using IPs without infringing on the value of the original work.

To be honest I think a lot of the problem right now is corporations being less concerned over losing money to people using bits and pieces of their stuff simply as fans, as they are with reviewers and bloggers who use their IPs and products in ways that hurt the corporation. When a popular reviewer of the moment could conceivably cost a corporation hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in revenue by convincing people not to buy a product, or otherwise drag a corporation through the mud by using their own work and promises against them, you begin to see the problem. It might be "fair" from our perspective but businessmen don't see things that way, since they are only concerned about profit. Their concern is basically to say that nobody can use material from their IPs in videos, articles, etc... without their express permission, meaning they can of course choose not to approve anything that comes across as being negative. This of course generally means forcing things like Youtube to even handedly shut down anyone caught using someone's IP.

The thing is that the law has not really caught up with the needs of the current information age, and what's worse as the laws DO catch up they are increasingly being created and supported by the very corporations those laws are supposed to be protecting the people from.

That this was coming shouldn't really surprise anyone, I mean look at Jim's rant on "Gearbox" and ongoing hatred of "Colonial Marines" along with the massive shockwaves of bad PR it caused across the internet. A lot of which comes down to press demos never intended for the public being shown alongside the actual product along with the point that the game people shown to review and help promote was not the game that was actually released. Needless to say shady corporations would love to be able to prevent things like that, and what your seeing here is a move in that direction.

The big question at the end of the day is what can actually be done about this. The big platforms that allow most reviewers, bloggers, and other people who rely on loosely defined "fair use" laws are public entities that are themselves out to make money and can't really afford to fight other corporations over things like this, especially when many of these providers are probably also dependent on those same corporations for advertising revenue. In short any platform big enough to be an issue is one that can be intimidated legally.

Addressing the central laws is a nice idea, but again, the politicians are fed by massive amounts of corporate dollars coming in.

I'm half asleep as I write this, so hopefully it came across as I intended especially as I lead into my final point. At the end of the day good, well intentioned, laws like copyright and IP laws are always going to be abused by a minority of the wealthy and powerful when they are allowed to do so. Bureucracy and governmental administration have always played into the hands of those at the top of a society. At the end of the day a big part of the reason why we have things like the right for the people to be armed is specifically so fear of popular uprisings and such will keep such interests in line. We sort of saw this in action during the issues of yesteryear when you pretty much had armed violence between high end business owners and workers, which involved groups like the pinkertons being brought in to literally break strikes and unions with violence, and of course the workers themselves fighting back, to the point where the government had no choice but to pretty much side with the workers or face the outright destruction of the country as
the issues expanded. On some levels this is a similar kind of issue, as long as we are all fat, happy, and complacent, and do nothing but whine on the internet, there is no reason for corporations to stop being tyrannical jerks, and no reason for the government to stop taking their money. As nice as it is to say "well I won't vote for someone who supports this kind of thing" it becomes a problem when the bribes simply become a perk of whomever winds up winning the election, and the problem remains no matter what you vote for, never mind that things like IP laws are always going to remain little more than a side issue. In many cases the principle of not supporting anyone who doesn't agree with you on an issue like this simply means refusing to vote at all, and well... that simply means the power winds up entirely in the hands of those who do vote.

On a lot of levels it's very similar to what I said about "Occupy Wall Street", non-violent protests mean absolutely jack unless the people your addressing are scared your going to kill them and wreck their stuff to begin with. Non-violent protest being an exercise in showing a potential yield of force once your taken seriously, without engaging in the mass murder and destruction that would come from an actual violent uprising. The great "non-violent" protests of the 60s and 70s were backed by huge amounts of violence and terrorism which tends to be forgotten, and it was the guys with the guns and bombs that caused the hippies to be taken seriously. Non violent protestors who sit in like they did during "Occupy Wall Street" will tell you Rome wasn't built in a day, but at the same time it wasn't built by a bunch of people sitting around on their butts, refusing to bathe, and being a public nuisance either.

At the end of the day if you want to see issues like this addressed, it cannot come from within the system, or by using the system. People need to actually decide that their rights here are actually worth fighting, killing, and dying for. If a bunch of guys start going on Youtube and decapitate kidnapped copyright judges who made the "wrong" rulings, abducted CEOS and their families, and similar things, while at the same time you see non-violent protests, it might have a chance of success. Sort of like how left wing terrorist groups like the SLA kidnapped Patty Hearst (and allegedly brain washed her).

Truthfully though, I do not think anything will come of this, because I just can't see the crowd being effected by this ever being upset enough to do anything except talk smack. At the end of the day you ask your typical person here, and admittedly this includes me, if these kinds of things are actually worth murder and domestic terrorism over, and at the moment I'd have to say "no". That means an issue like this is already over.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Samantha Burt said:
octafish said:
The joke is very strange as the Brothers Grimm just collected folk tales, they didn't create any new content...and of course The Goose that Laid the Golden Eggs is one of Aesop's fables.
I'm pretty sure that's the point, since most of the claims - as I understand it - are being made spuriously by parties with little to no actual rights over the intellectual property. I mean, one of the guys I subscribe to got a strike on one of his videos from a page that stole his footage to use on their website.

EDIT: Corrected a few typos.
Well, the big question of course comes down to what estate or publishing house has the rights to those works, or if they are truly in the public domain, something which is not always an easy question to answer, which is why things like copyright renewals and such have come about over the years.

The central point here being that by definition you could argue that just about any analogy or reference you could make to something could be potentially copyrighted by someone, something which gives major corporations huge amounts of power to control information. Not to mention the sheer power it gives over the very idea of independent reviewers when it could be argued they have to get permission to be able to say or show something negative about a product or IP.

As I mentioned in my bigger, meaner, rant, I suspect this was prompted by things like the Gearbox/Colonial Marines fiasco where are lot of the damage and bad press came from guys like Jim Sterling leaking images from reviewer only copies of the game and showing Gearbox to be a bunch of liars since what they showed the press was entirely different from the product released to the public. Basically the issue here is the corporations can pretty much shut down any public platform with a message they don't like about one of their IPs.

I honestly do not think corporations are all that concerned about someone say using scenes from a TV show spliced together to some currently popular piece of music to produce a personal video and put up on Youtube or whatever. While that kind of thing has been attacked in the past, it seems to be sporadic and half hearted, and mostly coming from the music industry. The current wave seems to be more of a move against people doing private review shows and the like, probably due to some big companies like EA finally realizing how much power they actually have when taken cumulatively and how much money they are costing them, especially when they lead to video game companies being voted the worst businesses in America.