Corvo Is Not An Honorable Man
- Thread starter Robert Rath
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Whoa, if it was intentional, then the devs weren't just good at making games, they were fucking great storytellers too.
This is wonderful. The historical treatment of honour caught my eye back when Art of Manliness ran a series on it [http://artofmanliness.com/tag/honor/], and it's nice to see this expanded. The examination of Italian honour as opposed to English really makes the piece as well - it's just a pity there wasn't more time spent on it.
Fingers crossed that this column keeps up, as always.
Fingers crossed that this column keeps up, as always.
VERY interesting read. I do like looking at Dishonored through this lens.
However, someone clearly hasn't played Dishonored as: Corvo Attano: The Loudest Man in Dunwall!
Honourably duelling your way through Dunwall, one guard at a time...
However, someone clearly hasn't played Dishonored as: Corvo Attano: The Loudest Man in Dunwall!
Honourably duelling your way through Dunwall, one guard at a time...
Well, being bodyguard of the Empress does bring its own title so he could very well just have been a talented common swordsman from the streets the Empress or her father picked just because, then raised to a noble so he could perform his duties.2fish said:
Keep in mind that it wasn't uncommon for close courtiers of the Royals to receive a formal title. A good example is a position most popular during the 15th century known as "Groomer of the Stool", which basically meant you were responsible for providing facilities for and assisting with the king's excretions, yet was a sought-after position since it meant time alone with the monarch and since they were apparently prone to talking secrets on the potty it made the holder of the position much feared around the court.
This is a really cool article, though I'd point out that I'm pretty sure dueling with swords was in favour of the older combatant, not the younger - sword fighting isn't necessarily extremely physical, and ultimately relies on skill, which one assumes an older man would've had more time to accrue.
Actually this is pretty common across sword fighting systems, so I don't think it was considered 'dirty'. Also one does not even necessarily need a protected hand to do it (depending on the type of blade, it's easier with broader blades).Prince Regent said:
Critical intel is swiftly becoming my favourite piece of content on this site. Intelligent gaming inddeed.
More please.
More please.
I picked up this game, played through it and then haven't looked at it since, and having said that, I really want to play it again now due to the deeper level of storytelling that you have exposed. Your article actually gives Corvo believable characterisation.
It depends on how you interpret the title "Lord Protector". Is he the protector of lords, or the lord of protectors? The former would be a formal title given to a commoner, the latter would be a noble's title. Given that the bodyguard is chosen from commoners, I'm more inclined to believe the former, rather than the latter. It would also explain why, if Emily really is Corvo's daughter, it's kept a secret, as it would have been a scandal for the Empress to have an affair with a commoner, even one of such high position.Quaxar said:
a pretty interesting article, certainly a pleasure to read. and its always nice to be presented with alternate interpretations.
i do disagree with a very minor point, saying that the games tagline is that "revenge solves everything" is a bit much, considering that every action in that game is damning, and the only good comes from putting a person with honest intentions into power, think about it, the revenge on everyone causes nothing but grief and death for everyone, both citizens and loyalist.
i do disagree with a very minor point, saying that the games tagline is that "revenge solves everything" is a bit much, considering that every action in that game is damning, and the only good comes from putting a person with honest intentions into power, think about it, the revenge on everyone causes nothing but grief and death for everyone, both citizens and loyalist.
I agree, "Lord Protector" is most likely a professional title and not nobility, but like Groomer of the Stool or Whipping Boy which were both job titles, a lot of them were later raised into high nobility by the king. Not during their career though, that might have been a bit of an error by me.wintercoat said:
On a related note, I am intrigued why the producers would chose the title of Lord Protector for Corvo if they intended to model the world after Britain. As far as I'm aware Lord Protector never meant anything close to bodyguard and was only awarded for representative regents during a ruler's inability to rule (illness, age, ...) and hasn't been used in Britain since Cromwell operrated under that title during the Interregnum. And I think it is still used in some constitutional monarchies, so as long as the king is out of the country the next heir becomes Lord Protector.
What's so bad about the proper British royal bodyguard title of <url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentleman_at_Arms>Gentleman at Arms or Gentleman Pensioner? Granted, not an individual's title as such, but a damn lot closer than using the title for an active regent.
It's an interesting read, but I think your kind of missing a point here. Corvo arguably wouldn't be a gentleman, his role was that of the Empress' bodyguard and personal dirty tricks specialist, the game opens up with him returning after having been sent elsewhere as an envoy.
By definition he fits an unusual position in that he had a greatly respectful job, was in the Empress' inner circle, and had a degree of honor in a general sense by association, but was always arguably a servant, albiet a very dangerous one.
Even within archaic "honor culture" understand that not everyone played by the same rules. When you get up as high as kings and such you generally couldn't have them duelling every gentleman that took affront, you did indeed have professional duelists, bodyguards, etc... Kings and such DID duel but only in very specific circumstances against the highest of the high.
In the context of Dishonored you don't get much higher than The Empress (lol) and she didn't strike me as someone in possesion of much martial prowess. This leads me to believe that gender equality doesn't apply the way it is now, and that Corvo effectively acted as her champion in such matters (ie if the Emperess offends you, you fight Corvo).
It didn't go into these kinds of details of course, but it would kind of explain Corvo's role, how he acted when he was a "second" as well as the expectations in manipulating him in that role. Corvo being in a rather unique position.
Social status aside, remember that if you consider Corvo is a servant, they can't quite treat him the way they would non-gentlemen because of his former status, and the simple fact that's he's probably the most dangerous man alive (going by the game concept, and especially once he has magical powers). He might be a tool (literally), and you might have to occasionally make a display of relative rank, but given that this is a guy whose skills they not only need, but has probably up until this point but feeding anyone who looked at the Emperess the wrong way their own genitals.
It's great to make textbook arguements about a general code of conduct or how a society worked, but within that your always going to have exceptions. High ranking bodyguards, spymasters, "secret" (by which I mean not so secret) Assasins, and of course Crime Lords (organizations like the Mafia have been around for a VERY long time among the working class, sure, a Don might just be a local businessman socially... a mere "successful merchant" but a gentleman who knows what's what isn't going to snub him or else bad things are going to happen, and besides this is someone the gentry knows they are going to have to deal with (which was kind of the point, and how these things got organized, many organized crime syndicates having had roots as legitimate attempts to organize businesses and the regular folk apparently).
The point to consider also is that there really aren't any historical precedents for someone in Corvo's exact position to base it off of. Queens like Elizabeth or Victoria had their protectors, but nobody that was quite so overtly infamous as Corvo, to the point where pretty much everyone knows who he is, and is kind of in awe of his raw abillity to kill. They leave a lot of the pre-story open which is part of the problem I guess, but in playing Dishonored I got the impression Corvo was one scary dude before the game started. To the point where I'd think simple self preservation would have kept the nobles in line, and that was kind of the point of him being the Emperess' right hand, she's "nice" Corvo isn't so nice and who she uses when someone gets her cranky.
By definition he fits an unusual position in that he had a greatly respectful job, was in the Empress' inner circle, and had a degree of honor in a general sense by association, but was always arguably a servant, albiet a very dangerous one.
Even within archaic "honor culture" understand that not everyone played by the same rules. When you get up as high as kings and such you generally couldn't have them duelling every gentleman that took affront, you did indeed have professional duelists, bodyguards, etc... Kings and such DID duel but only in very specific circumstances against the highest of the high.
In the context of Dishonored you don't get much higher than The Empress (lol) and she didn't strike me as someone in possesion of much martial prowess. This leads me to believe that gender equality doesn't apply the way it is now, and that Corvo effectively acted as her champion in such matters (ie if the Emperess offends you, you fight Corvo).
It didn't go into these kinds of details of course, but it would kind of explain Corvo's role, how he acted when he was a "second" as well as the expectations in manipulating him in that role. Corvo being in a rather unique position.
Social status aside, remember that if you consider Corvo is a servant, they can't quite treat him the way they would non-gentlemen because of his former status, and the simple fact that's he's probably the most dangerous man alive (going by the game concept, and especially once he has magical powers). He might be a tool (literally), and you might have to occasionally make a display of relative rank, but given that this is a guy whose skills they not only need, but has probably up until this point but feeding anyone who looked at the Emperess the wrong way their own genitals.
It's great to make textbook arguements about a general code of conduct or how a society worked, but within that your always going to have exceptions. High ranking bodyguards, spymasters, "secret" (by which I mean not so secret) Assasins, and of course Crime Lords (organizations like the Mafia have been around for a VERY long time among the working class, sure, a Don might just be a local businessman socially... a mere "successful merchant" but a gentleman who knows what's what isn't going to snub him or else bad things are going to happen, and besides this is someone the gentry knows they are going to have to deal with (which was kind of the point, and how these things got organized, many organized crime syndicates having had roots as legitimate attempts to organize businesses and the regular folk apparently).
The point to consider also is that there really aren't any historical precedents for someone in Corvo's exact position to base it off of. Queens like Elizabeth or Victoria had their protectors, but nobody that was quite so overtly infamous as Corvo, to the point where pretty much everyone knows who he is, and is kind of in awe of his raw abillity to kill. They leave a lot of the pre-story open which is part of the problem I guess, but in playing Dishonored I got the impression Corvo was one scary dude before the game started. To the point where I'd think simple self preservation would have kept the nobles in line, and that was kind of the point of him being the Emperess' right hand, she's "nice" Corvo isn't so nice and who she uses when someone gets her cranky.
I struggled with this question too - especially the use of "Lord Protector" and whether it was an honorific or a true title. I decided that Corvo could be considered a "gentleman," because of a number of factors:Quaxar said:
First, early in the game he's referred to as "Lord Corvo" by the boat crew that welcomes him back to Gristol. (See this video, at 0:59, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-7GN-GLpoA ) That's not conclusive proof by any means, but I felt they wouldn't call him "Lord Corvo," if Lord Protector was a formal title rather than a title of nobility.
Second, in the Dishonored game manual it states that Corvo was assigned to the Empress as a "diplomatic gesture." I considered this to be a courtier exchange or even as a noble hostage to guarantee a treaty. I suppose he could just be a retainer who's reassigned, but often people who get exchanged diplomatically are of higher rank. (Also note that the Empress/Emperor chooses their own Lord Protector at age 12 and Jessamine selected Corvo... considering Corvo's age that would make him quite young when he came to court in Gristol, which to my mind seems like a treaty hostage, or perhaps he was just in someone's entourage that's when he was given as a "gesture." Frankly, it's all pretty unclear.)
Third, Corvo begins the game having returned from a diplomatic mission to get aid for Dunwall and stop the other islands from closing their ports. Again, you don't generally send someone as a diplomatic envoy unless they're of sufficient rank. If I'm Britain and you're Italy, and I send you a glorified royal guard to negotiate keeping your ports open to British trade, that's an enormous insult.
Lastly, generally anyone who's heading up a royal protection detail at this time would be some form of military officer, which would make them a gentleman by 18th/19th century rules. Either someone who was well-connected or had a distinguished record in a well-known campaign. So even if "noble" might be stretching things a little far, I feel comfortable that Corvo is some form of gentleman.
So that was my logic. I'm not saying it's right, just that it's the interpretation I went with. Frankly, I had to extrapolate so much in order to write the article that the "methodology" paragraph used to be a full page unto itself, but it took up so much of the article I just snipped it. But yeah, I understand your concerns on that and I'm not knocking your interpretation. Thanks for commenting!
So they do call him Lord Corvo at one point. I was convinced it was at the end on his gravestone but that wasn't it so I got confused.Robert Rath said:
I'd like to point out that "Lord" could also be used as a <url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtesy_titles_in_the_United_Kingdom#Courtesy_prefix_of_.22Lord.22>courtesy title for an authority that is not necessarily noble, such as the the bearer of the title of <url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Mayor>Lord Mayor is not necessarily a Lord of nobility but can still be referred to as "Lord xyz". Although since this is due to the fact that the Lord Mayor in the past was infact a proper Lord and the society of Dishonored seems to have a very active class system him being called Lord is probably a good indication of some kind of noble rank.
Although on the other hand the tomb of the Empress only reads "Empress Jessamine Kaldwin", a joke if you consider <url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_of_Austria#Titles_of_the_Emperor>how many titles you collect during a regency.
The thought behind sending the apparently sole bodyguard on a long mission far away I still haven't quite understood. Even as a nobleman he wouldn't exactly be the most diplomaticly experienced person for a mission of this importance and if he was the only person the Empress could trust with such a task one has to wonder about her relations to her court.
Your logic is as good as any and anyway completely sufficient and reasonable for the article which, in the end, is the most important part.
And I'm curious, is the title of your article a reference to the speech of Marc Antony in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar or am I overinterpreting?
Yeah, I'm aware of the German tradition - I did some schlager fencing myself once upon a time (with a mask though, I'm not that hardcore). That existed until World War I, didn't it? I think my favorite scene involving those duels was in Royal Flash where Otto Von Bismark is fencing Flashman in order to give him the proper scars to impersonate a nobleman. Man I love those books.Shendril said:In Germany there are some interesting, similar remains of this honour and duel system: within the academic fraternities. There are also some, that legitimately have fencing duels with sharp blades (sharp, not pointed, they cause non-lethal wounds) about honour matters. To be competent, they get trained within their fraternity (if it is one of the fencing ones), and are only allowed to duel with someone from another fencing frat. They also have a second each to assist them during the fencing, comparable to the guys that used to handle the guns for the duelists, and a neutral referee. When two people from a fencing frat meet, they will have a quite different behaviour compared to meeting others.
The remarkable fact about this whole honour and fencing business is, that it is fully covered by the law, in a country that has very strict laws about weapons of all kinds. And yet it is possible to challenge someone for taking your seat in a theatre to a duel with sharp steel blades, provided you and the other are both members of a fencing frat. You will not be able to kill anyone, but in those duels (Mensur) severe wounds to head and face can occur.
If we take both positions 'gentleman' and 'vendetta' and take a look at our general medias, what approach is presented more often?
Is there a really good example of a 'gentleman'-driven plot?
After some thinking I came to HERO from Zhang Yimou: the whole plot unravels about the nameless one, and how he carefully chose his path to get close to the king. To commit a deed of great honour by not killing him, and facing his own death as an assassin, to be buried like a hero. The honour to prove a point, knowing this can end your life.
Maybe we should not call the game 'Dishonored' but 'Vendetta'... but then again, that was a game from System Three I used to play on my C64
As for a gentleman-driven plot... man, there's lots. Any Alexandre Dumas novel would probably qualify, and so would most Jane Austen, but I suppose it's cheating to name period novels. The movie The Duellists is really good, and also contains a lot of fantastic swordplay. Also Rafael Sabatini's French Revolution novel Scaramouche has duels and French honor culture as one of its major plot points (one of the aristocrats gets used as a hitman against the third estate - he's an expert swordsman who offends rival legislators enough that they're forced to challenge him to a duel, whereupon he kills them). The Sharpe novels and films pretty much deal with Sharpe's struggle to be taken seriously in the company of officers who don't consider him a gentleman. The Jeeves and Wooster stories and films are a comedic take on the idea of English gentlemen who're basically just drunken wastrels but still hang onto an absurd honor code.
Oh totally. I also didn't get to fit this in, but Dr. Banks pointed out that the duel was actually an Italian invention meant to stop the vendetta. It got brought over to Britain during the Renaissance as part of Italian courtesy literature, which makes the 18th and 19th century sneering about "barbarous Italians" and their vendettas pretty ironic. Of course, the construction of "Englishness" often meant a sort of willful ignorance when it came to taking foreign ideas and claiming them as English inventions (of course the English aren't alone in that trait - Americans have done the same thing throughout our history).Thammuz said: