Criticism of Anime and Manga
- Thread starter KissofKetchup
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I can understand the perspective, but I disagree with the idea that anime is stylized compared to their western counterparts, often its the character type distinctions that truly place the two apart, rather than any stylized format. Yes, most anime have over-large eyes, but this is by no means the rule, take a look at ghost in the shell, which has proportioned characters; I think its more the type of characters that would make the distinction.Therumancer said:KissofKetchup said:
Yes, Anime is highly stylized. I think part of your problem here is that you more easily pick up on the differances between Western cartoons because of greater long term cultural exposure. Truthfully I think a Western Cartoon is recognizable overseas just as much as an Eastern one is here due to the fundemental stylistic differances.
Another thing you will notice is that a lot of Anime that makes it to the US comes from very specific studios. A given studio putting out a new series every year or every couple of years. Compared to Western animation where series like Spongebob can last a long time and see consistant production, and development teams/studios might exist for only one product. An anime produced by the same basic people is going to look very similar to their other work.
Think of it like comic books. They swap artists around a lot, but you can recoginize the distinctive style of differant artists even when they switch titles or companies. The way some guy draws Batman for example is not going to change all that much even if he does it in differant titles. What's more the simple way he tends to draw (faces, etc...) is liable to be similar even when he does differant characters. This is why for comic fans who is doing the artwork for a given storyline can be as important as the story itself.
But yes, the eastern art style, with things like the big eyes (in most cases), is very distinctive. As is a western style where we generally have more proportional characters.
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To be honest I used to be a much bigger Anime fan than I am currently. In part because I'm one of those "I was into Anime before Anime was cool" guys, and long before Anime becoming fairly mainstream, and a staple of the general nerd consciousness.
Like anything, it's not for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with that. No need to knock it because you don't care for it, despite the obsessives.
Having seen so bloody much of it, I'll tell you that it has just as many horrible stereotypes and cliques as anything else, and as much variance in quality as any other medium. As time has gone on I think a lot more crud has been shoveled onto the US audience, and that's a big part of why I just don't bother to follow it as much as it used to. I'm tired of bobbing for diamonds in a trough of pick slop.
American animation has more anthropomorphism than anime; see, loony toons, Ben 10, animaniacs, pinky and the brain ect. Those that have human focus tend to use thick lines and lack of detailing to give a more unrealistic feel to the series, see Family Guy and Futurama, or even Ed, Edd, and Eddy.
anime tends to be more human focused, even series with animal-tpe creatures tend to give important ones human forms within certain tropes, Inuyasha is my main example on this point. But overall, anime tends to push either realistic artwork (most Death Note characters Ghost In The Shell), or more stereo-typical styles, sailor moon, Lucky Star, The Melencholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. This is purely personal taste, but even the more stylized anime make me feel like its in a more real world than western animation.
As has been stated though, I get the feeling the real difference is the target audience, cartoons are naturally going to be a bit more uncanny-vally than anime because its aimed at kids(animaniacs, batman TOS and their ilk notwithstanding)Even the more 'mature' cartoons are sitcoms, they don't tend to have a real story.
Anime is for the teen-adult audience, except the ones aimed for kids, obviously. They tend to be more thought out, a-la death note or Code Geass; lots of black and grey morality in that kind of thing. Anime tends to have oddly plausable reactions with not-overstated characters(mind you, in some truly bizarre plots,look at The melancholy of Haruhi suzumiya for a case in point), leading to a more realistic series than even some live-actions.
That's just my two-cents on the matter
I myself am incapable of talking about anything other than my obsession yet I'm still a casual anime fan.SimuLord said:
The trick is to have a new obsession every week. This week it might be Berserk, the next week it might be Wallace & Gromit and the week after that it'll grilled chicken.
Ok, having done a google image search of Death Note and One Piece, I noticed that Death Note has a darker tone to it while One Piece has brighter tone to it. However, I still find the contours of the characters are very similar, especially with their faces and hair. That is what I have been focusing on when comparing anime to anime.Zekksta said:
You know... just a side note, but the term "anime" is only Japanese shorthand for their own phonetic pronunciation of "animation", since they have no word of their own for "cartoons".
That said, like the other guy you respectfully quoted in the first post, you're looking at it as any average outsider would. Someone like myself or who knows what number of others can easily differentiate the art styles of folks like Falcoon [http://spe.fotologs.net/photo/30/44/4/falcoon/1139586297_f.jpg], Tite Kubo [http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/ryan_rocker567/bleach-group.jpg], Koh Kawarajima [http://download.minitokyo.net/Koh.Kawarajima.418696.jpg], Satoshi Urushihara [http://image.bayimg.com/kajohaabi.jpg], and Masamune Shirow [http://www.abcdigitalart3.hpg.ig.com.br/animes/Argosy_MasamuneShirow_1024.jpg] just to name a few, while one that's never really paid attention will think that they all look the same.
But I see you've already admitted your faults, so you are forgiven... for now from me at least.
That said, like the other guy you respectfully quoted in the first post, you're looking at it as any average outsider would. Someone like myself or who knows what number of others can easily differentiate the art styles of folks like Falcoon [http://spe.fotologs.net/photo/30/44/4/falcoon/1139586297_f.jpg], Tite Kubo [http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/ryan_rocker567/bleach-group.jpg], Koh Kawarajima [http://download.minitokyo.net/Koh.Kawarajima.418696.jpg], Satoshi Urushihara [http://image.bayimg.com/kajohaabi.jpg], and Masamune Shirow [http://www.abcdigitalart3.hpg.ig.com.br/animes/Argosy_MasamuneShirow_1024.jpg] just to name a few, while one that's never really paid attention will think that they all look the same.
But I see you've already admitted your faults, so you are forgiven... for now from me at least.
Compare the art of Aby_Z's avatar to this, a depiction OF THE SAME CHARACTER.
http://www.macrochan.org/images/H/U/HUPQW7K3KD23JBRYXB5RCK73O7WRC5ZX.jpeg
Blind beggar off the street: Yeah, that's different. Also can I have some mone-*Thrown Out*
That anime has one art style... It's just wrong.
THOUGH! I do admit that some CAN look the same. I think I've mistaken Black Lagoon (Might be using the wrong name) with Hellsing OVA.
http://www.macrochan.org/images/H/U/HUPQW7K3KD23JBRYXB5RCK73O7WRC5ZX.jpeg
Blind beggar off the street: Yeah, that's different. Also can I have some mone-*Thrown Out*
That anime has one art style... It's just wrong.
THOUGH! I do admit that some CAN look the same. I think I've mistaken Black Lagoon (Might be using the wrong name) with Hellsing OVA.
While most anime can look the "same" (even though I believe something like Ghost in the Shell has quite a different art style to it than something like Clannad) It's actually the fact that most anime do look the same in terms of its art style that is appealing to me. I love the art style itself and the fact that most anime uses the "same" style is actually a bonus for me.
All of those shows you recommended are also anime. Dexter's Lab, Powerpuff Girls, Invader Zim, and especially Samurai jack followed such distinctive styles consistently that they classify as "anime".[slang for: stylized animations usually identifying a particular artist]Drakmeire said:
The lack of distinctiveness is from other companies literally stealing your set of rules for style. Like counterfeiters duping masterpiece works of art.
I'm watching Symbionic Titan while catching up on Book of Bantorra. It's all anime. And it's all good.
I don't know what the OP was watching at all. He might want to try Google. I just saw Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust and Gankutsuou in the same month. They are animated paintings, the detail is so incredible! And the plots are far beyond typical things you find in Western shows.
This reminds me a little of myself. Being ignorant and judgemental to anything different. However I thought anime were for kids, but quickly changed my mind after I saw Fullmetal Alchemist. After that, anime has become a part of my life.
Anyway, don't judge by the looks
Anyway, don't judge by the looks
Some have a good storyline, but are too sexual, ruining the series because I can't take it serious enough (ex. Witch Blade)
Then there are those other perverts that make the porno crap that shows women getting raped all the time.
Just have a good balance (1 maybe 2 girls with watermelon breasts in the series) and don't have the main protaganist be under 16 (it can get a little weird when the character is young)
Then there are those other perverts that make the porno crap that shows women getting raped all the time.
Just have a good balance (1 maybe 2 girls with watermelon breasts in the series) and don't have the main protaganist be under 16 (it can get a little weird when the character is young)
Even though this thread has probably alreayd been resolved, I feel like saying something.
Yes, you may be able to easily tell when something is anime, by similar features, but there are drastically different styles.
Keeping with the theme, example:
When you see a Gundam, you can tell it's a Gundam, but there is much variation.
Yes, you may be able to easily tell when something is anime, by similar features, but there are drastically different styles.
Keeping with the theme, example:
When you see a Gundam, you can tell it's a Gundam, but there is much variation.
I guess you could say the same thing about Western shows.
Sure, there are pretty clear differences. But whack some clothes on Daffy, change his feather colour and you've got two pretty similar looking cartoon ducks.
That said, having not properly seen many animes, I'm in the same boat as the OP. Kinda. More sitting in a rowing boat behind his boat.
Yes, there are differences in the anime styles, but after being raised on Western animation, it still looks a bit too samey to seem interesting to me.
That said, having not properly seen many animes, I'm in the same boat as the OP. Kinda. More sitting in a rowing boat behind his boat.
Yes, there are differences in the anime styles, but after being raised on Western animation, it still looks a bit too samey to seem interesting to me.
How many did you look at exactly? Someone posted it on the first page so I can't exactly do better but american style animation that you listed like spongebob and such is pretty bullshitty american: giant black outline + paintbucket fill. Anime: thin lines with gradients and detail throughout, some cartoons like King of the Hill they're pretty good though. I'm just wondering why in america all the designers place those giant thick outlines around the characters...
If you look close enough you could find similarities between Wallace & Gromit and Fantastic Planet...KissofKetchup said:
Yes, a lot of Japanese animation and comics look alike, but so what? Just as most Japanese cartoons have characters with large shiny eyes and pointy chins, most Western cartoons have characters with large oval eyes with small pupils and slanted foreheads. Most cartoons from whatever nationality will always work off of a set visual standard, because they need to be produced quickly since cartoons are very expensive to make. Creating very intricate-looking characters with a lot of facial features is a production nightmare. So when an animation studio does take this plunge, they make damn sure they have stellar talent a big enough budget (see Katsuhiro Otomo's Memories).
If you want to see some of the many different visual styles of Japanese animation, check out Neo Tokyo, Robot Carnival and the aforementioned Memories.
But there's just as much visual originality in Japanese animation/comics as in the Western variety.
