Critics Ruin Video Games? ?Good!
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What was cyberpunk 2077 portraying? I'm sorry, I don't get the damn trailer at all. The premise seems to be "people are getting a lot of implants, people with implants want to kill the meatbags, men in combat gear shooting half naked lady with impractical looking blades coming out of her arms and massive honking tits. Oh and her skin is bulletproof apparently." I'm sorry but what the flying fuck was going on in that trailer? Why did she have to be half naked? Why did she need the F cup? I don't get why that trailer got everyone so hyped for the game, it couldn't turn me off faster.Draech said:
Cool I think it is assuming in many respects article aside am I able to hate if their is no feeling behind it? Am I sexist if I act like men/women are superior but dont believe it?
I dont think people make games out of hate (or dliberately include it) especially not huge ones anyway, greed yup ill buy that big companies want big mulla, Enjoyment yup ill get behind that too but hate nah I dont think so maybe there is a few but these would be the minority. As for the sexist issue well I dont think the majority of games show women as inferior to men and even if they did, do they believe that are they hammering that home or is it incidental?
The stereotype of roles is more prevalent but then we get that on both sides in the real world and video games to quite a big degree but its nowhere near as bad as it used to be (talking RL here).
The article seemed very preachy to me and those diagrams seemed like they could apply to many entertainment mediums where big bucks are involved not specifically videogames.
People seem to not want any strong opinions either side or the other especially ones perceived as negative which sure I can understand but thats not going to happen videogames I would say are here to stay but as for specific types of videogames well they will either find their place or disappear just like a new type of music or film genre.
Critics are paid to criticise and look at the negative really and thats good we need naysayers take what they say into account but you dont have to act on everything they say if someone (or some people) make a game they can do what the hell they want with it its their creation fill it full of every hate filled idea you can come up with and really really mean it if you want I personally couldnt care but I believe you have that right but likewise dont expect everyone to agree with your hate even if they buy your game because lets say it is actually a good game, buying is not necessarily condoning all the contents.
I think most gamers are more chilled out though they dont care if there game is violent against anyone from aliens to men and women to small furry animals they just enjoy playing the game and dont really try and dig into any deeper hidden messages that may but probably arent there.
I dont think people make games out of hate (or dliberately include it) especially not huge ones anyway, greed yup ill buy that big companies want big mulla, Enjoyment yup ill get behind that too but hate nah I dont think so maybe there is a few but these would be the minority. As for the sexist issue well I dont think the majority of games show women as inferior to men and even if they did, do they believe that are they hammering that home or is it incidental?
The stereotype of roles is more prevalent but then we get that on both sides in the real world and video games to quite a big degree but its nowhere near as bad as it used to be (talking RL here).
The article seemed very preachy to me and those diagrams seemed like they could apply to many entertainment mediums where big bucks are involved not specifically videogames.
People seem to not want any strong opinions either side or the other especially ones perceived as negative which sure I can understand but thats not going to happen videogames I would say are here to stay but as for specific types of videogames well they will either find their place or disappear just like a new type of music or film genre.
Critics are paid to criticise and look at the negative really and thats good we need naysayers take what they say into account but you dont have to act on everything they say if someone (or some people) make a game they can do what the hell they want with it its their creation fill it full of every hate filled idea you can come up with and really really mean it if you want I personally couldnt care but I believe you have that right but likewise dont expect everyone to agree with your hate even if they buy your game because lets say it is actually a good game, buying is not necessarily condoning all the contents.
I think most gamers are more chilled out though they dont care if there game is violent against anyone from aliens to men and women to small furry animals they just enjoy playing the game and dont really try and dig into any deeper hidden messages that may but probably arent there.
Dude, that only makes it more disturbing. Executing a prostitute for her depraved ways is very touchy. It isn't cool. This isn't the kind of thing a normal person is supposed to be "hyped" over. It's a bunch of dudes killing a hooker because she's a slut. You seriously don't see why some people have a problem with that?Draech said:
And yeah all the no soul and conformity. There's a thing called tone in fiction. The tone reflects the emotions and thoughts the creator wants the audience to experience. The tone is telling me "Look at how awesome this is!". Sorry. That isn't awesome. Some fascist cops killing a woman for her sins isn't awesome. It's sad and scary.
I'm not against the idea of a exploring that scenario, but telling me this is an awesome scenario is fucked up.
That's an interesting concept, I'll give you that, but I can't help but feel that if that is what they're going for, they could've been a little more classy about it. Symbolism or not, at the end of the day the poster for Cyberpunk 2077 is a half naked woman kneeling in the middle of the street with an SMG pointed at the back of her head with her making no effort to fight back. I mean if you're going for the order vs chaos thing, why did you have to go straight to sex and prostitutes? I mean why? Couldn't you show a line of organized soldiers firing on a horde of crazed augmented civilians charging them with no rhyme or reason?Draech said:
If it seems like I'm bitching (and I probably am) it's only because I'm hopelessly confused because this website keeps giving me whiplash on how we should approach sexism. Saying that Dead Island is sexist because of the statue one day, but calling the Kickstarter girl a fraud and a scam artist for trying to address sexism. Also for some reason Hitman gets hit for showing scantily clad women, but for some reason Cyberpunk 2077 gets a free ride...I'm just hopelessly confused.
It does feel like a mine field, I know, I defended the Tomb Raider reboot when it was first announced. And I have to admit I do see where you're coming from on this one, and to your credit I view it in a much more positive light now that I can look at it from that angle, but I need to point out that you had to sit down and explain it to me before it made any sense, symbolism can backfire when it's too obscure for some people to notice, not to mention there's a chance you might be reading too much into it. It just could've been more tasteful and well executed (the f cup was going a little far and I would've liked to see the woman in action more, she is supposed to be going on a rampage right? Why is she just sitting on the ground?). But then again I'm not that hyped for this game at all (the logo looks stupid too) so maybe I'm just biased.Draech said:
very interesting; the article is basically telling gamers to grow some spine and stop thinking that criticizing sexism and juvenile behavior is somehow demanding that gaming be censored. For all the stock gamers put into the medium, they sure as hell don't take it all that seriously
Because you can't live your life being serious all the time now can you? It kinda seems like most of the criticism goes over confusing ignorance for malicious intent. More over it isn't that hard to come to the conclusion people who criticize something want it removed. After all they wouldn't be criticizing it if it wasn't there in the first place right, nor would anyone dare voice their opinion if they didn't think it would have an effect.Aiddon said:
Maybe, just maybe, because that "sex bot" has just murdered a few people....
He's right, that's sexist, LET THE KILLER GO. I can just imagine that conversation "Sorry chief, had to let the murderer go. Wouldn't want some moron on the internet getting upset now would we?".
What I mean "serious" is that gamers actually don't respect gaming that much. They're willing to reap BENEFITS of "victories" gaming has gotten (such as the Supreme Court saying gaming is protected by the First Amendment), but they're unwilling to actually start taking RESPONSIBILITY and willing to tell the medium to GROW UP. For all we demand that gaming be taken just as seriously as film or literature, we are unwilling to do so by acting like ADULTS. And until then, gaming is truly the bastion of children pretending to be adultsToy Master Typhus said:
Mate... Did you even watch the actual trailer? You can CLEARLY see the reason they want to shoot the lady is because she has gone mental and killed several people with ice-pick arms! NOTHING to do with prostitutes.JudgeGame said:
Just looks like a girl who went for a night out to me. Even now, in the present some women dress this way to go clubbingerttheking said:
And as cyberpunk generally goes it takes things a little bit over the top.As for the boobs. If you can get implants for blade-arms. Is it so weird to consider companies at that time doing several "beauty" implants (including boobs) to make yourself look like a supermodel? I think not. The ideas been done in several different sci-fi stories. If people can: they WILL make themselves look as attractive as possible.
Plus yeah, shock value. But thats marketing for ya.
Yeah, but blood soaked blade arms and massive (pretty fake looking) tits clash pretty horribly IMHOdaveman247 said:Mate... Did you even watch the actual trailer? You can CLEARLY see the reason they want to shoot the lady is because she has gone mental and killed several people with ice-pick arms! NOTHING to do with prostitutes.JudgeGame said:
Just looks like a girl who went for a night out to me. Even now, in the present some women dress this way to go clubbingerttheking said:
As for the boobs. If you can get implants for blade-arms. Is it so weird to consider companies at that time doing several "beauty" implants (including boobs) to make yourself look like a supermodel? I think not. The ideas been done in several different sci-fi stories. If people can: they WILL make themselves look as attractive as possible.
Plus yeah, shock value. But thats marketing for ya.
Yup, they do. That is the point! As i said before as with most settings like this (think 2000AD, judge dredd type stuff) DO go over the top with things. But if its not your cup of tea, thats coolerttheking said:
To be honest i never thought about anything to do with the ladies boobs, too busy looking at all the other cool stuff going on. Theres more going on in the background than you first think.
- she is a robotJudgeGame said:
- she just killed 14 civilians
- she is sitting in a pile of corpses with her arm scythes dripping with blood
- "the dudes" are clearly displayed as an enforcement agency, also clearly displayed it is not only men
Therefor we obviously must conclude she was hunted and killed because of her genitalia... obviously.
This is exactly why these discussions can't go anywhere, all sides immediately flip out the moment breasts are in play and then we just watch who can get more absurd with the arguments, or rather stupidity.
Yes there is some really dumb "sell sex" stuff going on in the industry, but when everyone cries wolf all the time these "discussions" are just mindless drivel only appropriate for 4chan and Fox News.
Ok that makes more sense, but I think this is more of a our generation's problem then a gamers problem. The reason being because we have still a loose term for "gamer" the reason being that unlike other mediums where it takes years and hundreds of dollars of mastering different elements, like reading several books before someone recognizes you for being a person of books or watching several movies before being a person of movies if you play just ONE video game you are thrown into the gamer crowd. Now why we can't go around judging people because of how many game they play? Because of the "Gamer Girl" incident at conventions. The people who are trying to get games taken seriously are really the same amount of people we see on The Escapist, A minority.Aiddon said:
This is a society problem of our generation because this kind of as-nite behavior isn't limited to people who play video games, It is across the entire god damned internet. Not everyone on the internet is a gamer, I mean look at the comments sections in Fox news or Yahoo; it is just a giant cluster of madness and hate And I think the reason of this is because partly like you said they are unwilling to take responsibility, and because they don't have too. I mean what is the worse that happens to you over the internet if you say something? Flame war?
Technically, if it's a robot it isn't a chick. It just LOOKS like a chick. I don't see sexism here, I see a reasonable reaction to the fucking MURDER PSYCHOBOT.
I love how the Cyberpunk trailer shows off art style, setting, architecture, weaponry, the key theme of trans-humanism and keeping order in such a society, and still all some people take away is seeing cleavage and panties. Even though they don't show the woman's body until halfway through the video (big no-no in Sex Marketing 101), and when they do show it, it coincides with the reveal of the carnage around her, and realistically there's not even a whole woman there, just a brain, a nervous system, and some other internal organs suspended in a metal shell.
But no, her position must be submissive just for the purpose of showing women their rightful place in society, the lack of breast-shaped body armor and pink visors means all of the cops shooting at her are male, the Psycho Squad guy's exposed pecs and chiseled jaw are there to perpetuate the male power fantasy, not something a woman would ever find attractive. And that stream of bullets in the beginning is the worst offender - a clear-cut metaphor for bukkake.
And anyone who disagrees is a sexist racist homophobic virgin neckbeard teenage fratboy who doesn't want games to be art.
But no, her position must be submissive just for the purpose of showing women their rightful place in society, the lack of breast-shaped body armor and pink visors means all of the cops shooting at her are male, the Psycho Squad guy's exposed pecs and chiseled jaw are there to perpetuate the male power fantasy, not something a woman would ever find attractive. And that stream of bullets in the beginning is the worst offender - a clear-cut metaphor for bukkake.
And anyone who disagrees is a sexist racist homophobic virgin neckbeard teenage fratboy who doesn't want games to be art.
Draech said:
I'm willing to listen. I'm prepared to take your word that the prostitute did in fact kill a bunch of people. That information isn't relayed in the video. I assumed the people firing bullets at the corpses killed the corpses. In my opinion, they could have made the effort to make that clear to anyone who saw the ad. I suppose, if you have prior knowledge to the universe of Cyberpunk 2077 you wcould infer all that.Mr.K. said:
This is the same problem the article I linked was talking about. Instead of marketing their product at a large audience, they concentrate on a small group and marginalize everyone else. I'd be surprised if they even bothered screening this ad to a random audience to gauge their reaction.
If I am to accept that interpretation, it's terrible composition and real amateur directing. The first thing you see are the woman and the bullet hitting her. Next you see the police who are in formation for some reason even though she only just saw them. Next we see the bullets AND the bloodied corpses which would help us make a false association. Half-way into the video, we see the "scythes" which I didn't recognize as such. To be honest, I had no idea what they were supposed to be until you mentioned it. I could moan about how structurally unsound they look and how ineffective they would be as combat weapons but hey it's sci-fi so I would be prepared to meet the trailer half-way if it at least told me they were weapons. Finally, we see the policeman pointing a gun to the back of her skull, which doesn't make any sense since he's in the line of fire but if we just ignore that it still looks pretty disturbing and not the kind of thing I would find exciting or epic. To most people it's just a bunch of fascist cops executing some random woman war lord style, all in beautifully rendered slo-mo cam so we know it is awesome.
I really can't see why anyone thought it was this scene that would sell the game, I would have chosen something more action-y, less morally compromising.
Skim, skim, Dead Island, skim, skim, made-uppy chart that has nothing to do with reality, skim, skim, misinterpreted trailer, skim, some dumb CoD trailer or something, skim, the end.
Yeah I'm not feeling it. I'm tempted to drop a "2/10 would not bang" just to be a troll, but I think something more along the lines of "5/10 good effort, try again next time" is more accurate.
Eh, I though I had something more substantive to say, but when I glanced at the article I couldn't remember what it was. I also wanted to do this thing where I listed a bunch of things with like seemingly strong female characters and stuff and be like "Sexist!" and then list a bunch of things about like strippers and be like "Not Sexist!" and then the whole Escapist community would be like "Dr. Cakey, we understand now! You have showered your wisdom upon us!" but then I realized all my examples were anime and almost no one would get it. Then I cried.
Yeah I'm not feeling it. I'm tempted to drop a "2/10 would not bang" just to be a troll, but I think something more along the lines of "5/10 good effort, try again next time" is more accurate.
Eh, I though I had something more substantive to say, but when I glanced at the article I couldn't remember what it was. I also wanted to do this thing where I listed a bunch of things with like seemingly strong female characters and stuff and be like "Sexist!" and then list a bunch of things about like strippers and be like "Not Sexist!" and then the whole Escapist community would be like "Dr. Cakey, we understand now! You have showered your wisdom upon us!" but then I realized all my examples were anime and almost no one would get it. Then I cried.
As I just kind of said in an earlier post, why the heck is this trailer asking me to know about a whole other board game? If they are planning to sell over a hundred thousand copies, it's safe to assume they need to market this game to a very large crowd. Regardless, I think it is plain lazy to put out an entire trailer with no context around it. A few weeks later I found out it was based on a board game thanks to a friend, no thanks to the Cyberpunk 2077 marketing department.GunsmithKitten said: