CRPGs, how do i get into them?

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

So lately i've been very interested in CRPGs, i've played baldur's gate 2, Neverwinter nights, icewind dale 1&2. But after a while (average 15 minutes) i just turn those games off. i really want to get into them but the problem is that i don't understand the combat at all. is there a way to learn the basics? and before you tell me to go to the wiki i went there and it did not help me at all.
captcha: barking mad... even captcha is laughing at me!

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Usually the manual is happy to supply you with the basics.

All of those games labored under fairly clunky engines, that aren't super intuitive to someone who cut their teeth on more action-oriented game play. You might be more comfortable with a Mass Effect or a Witcher.

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

Usually the manual is happy to supply you with the basics.

All of those games labored under fairly clunky engines, that aren't super intuitive to someone who cut their teeth on more action-oriented game play. You might be more comfortable with a Mass Effect or a Witcher.

i've completed the mass effect and witcher series sadly :/

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

reading the manual doesn't really help because i don't understand what they're talking about

 

[Murrdox]

reading the manual doesn't really help because i don't understand what they're talking about

Either you haven't ACTUALLY read the manual or you have a manual in a language you don't speak

The Baldur's Gate 2 manual was HUGE! It had all you needed to play the game in addition to all the D&D 2nd Edition information you needed to understand the game mechanics, which I grant you aren't the easiest thing in the world to "get". The best advice I can give you about Baldur's Gate 2 is to turn on auto-pause and turn on all the options to give you text feedback on your hits and misses, and you'll get a better understanding for what is happening.

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

reading the manual doesn't really help because i don't understand what they're talking about

Either you haven't ACTUALLY read the manual or you have a manual in a language you don't speak

The Baldur's Gate 2 manual was HUGE! It had all you needed to play the game in addition to all the D&D 2nd Edition information you needed to understand the game mechanics, which I grant you aren't the easiest thing in the world to "get". The best advice I can give you about Baldur's Gate 2 is to turn on auto-pause and turn on all the options to give you text feedback on your hits and misses, and you'll get a better understanding for what is happening.

but i don't understand half the shit that is in that manual and the combat isn't as hard as it is frustrating because i made my characters shit so they wouldn't hit their enemies 90% of the time
also i don't know where to look for the info in that manual, it is very big and confusing for me...

i just redownloaded the manual, 181 pages... fuck

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

alright, could someone tell me where to look? i'm getting very frustrated :/
also i know that most of these have a different dnd ruleset so should i always read the manuals?

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

hmm... thanks for the help. as for character creation, what would you recommend? (no magic users) i'm looking for something easy since it's my first time actually playing those kinds of games.
and on another note, is baldurs gate 1 good aswell? i'm not going to buy it any time soon but i could ask it as a birthday gift ^^

also are there still dnd communities around? i want to get into dnd itself but i don't where to go

 

[Murrdox]

The beginning of Baldur's Gate 2 can be very tough because it starts you out in the middle of a pretty difficult dungeon. There's a lot of combat right from the get-go, and it's not really very easy combat. Not much in the way of a tutorial.

If you want my recommendation for the easiest main character to create to play the game with, it would be a Fighter who specializes in Longswords and uses a shield.

At character creation, re-roll your character stats... A LOT! You need a high constitution and high strength especially. Don't feel bad if you end up hitting that "Reroll" button 50 times or more. Baldur's Gate 2 is a hard game, the Dungeon and Dragon rules can be very brutal, so you need to have a pretty stacked main character if you don't just want to be constantly re-loading the game from dying.

Also at the beginning of the game make sure you learn how Magic works with memorizing spells, and how to cast spells on party members. Take a close look at Jaheira's spells, your first spellcaster available to you. She'll be invaluable getting you through the starting dungeon with her healing spells. Bless is also useful, but at the beginning she'll mostly be healing you. Get used to hitting that SPACEBAR to pause the game when something bad happens, and then issuing a command to Jaheira to cast a healing spell. When casting offensive spells that don't target specific enemies, such as Fireball, remember that actually CASTING the spell takes some time. It isn't instantaneous, so you can't pause the game, target some enemies with the spell, unpause it, and expect them to get fried. Likely they'll move before the spell goes off. You need to predict the enemy movement a bit.

Baldur's Gate 1 is also a good game. The plot isn't as good as Baldur's Gate 2, and while I think overall Baldur's Gate 2 is more difficult, Baldur's Gate 1 can be more FRUSTRATING simply because your characters start out at very low level, meaning it doesn't take much to kill them.

 

[DoPo]

Also, you can just look up guides on GameFAQs - they tend to be fairly good, and synthesize information you need. If there is a character creation guide, or something, those are usually really good for...well, character generation, with all the information in one place.

 

[Joccaren]

As a general rule in CRPGs what you should get in the way of your stats depends on your class. I don't know the systems for those games particularly, but playing a warrior [Arguably the easiest role to play], you will need 2 stats mainly:
Strength: Increases your chance to hit and damage on hit. Might be different in those games, but generally it will do at least one of these two things, and you will also generally need it to equip higher level weapons and armour.
Constitution: Increases hitpoints and fortitude saves. Fortitude saves depend on the game, but constitution has always, in my experience, increased your hitpoints, and is very important for ensuring your character stays alive.

If you're looking for a very simple CRPG that its easy to get through, even without really understanding the mechanics [Though not necessarily easy to complete every side quest and such], try Dragon Age: Origins. It works off basically the same systems, but it is nowhere near as unforgiving as the earlier CRPGs, and it generally pops up with windows explaining to you how to do most things, and hovering over stats, from memory, tells you what they improve.

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

If you're looking for a very simple CRPG that its easy to get through, even without really understanding the mechanics [Though not necessarily easy to complete every side quest and such], try Dragon Age: Origins. It works off basically the same systems, but it is nowhere near as unforgiving as the earlier CRPGs, and it generally pops up with windows explaining to you how to do most things, and hovering over stats, from memory, tells you what they improve.

i've completed dragon age: origins twice, i liked the game but the combat doesn't give me the same kind of feel a crpg does. i think it didn't give me that feel because it didn't have armor class and stuff like that.

hmm... thanks for the help. as for character creation, what would you recommend? (no magic users) i'm looking for something easy since it's my first time actually playing those kinds of games.
and on another note, is baldurs gate 1 good aswell? i'm not going to buy it any time soon but i could ask it as a birthday gift ^^

Well you're still gonna want to pick up a magic user, cleric or/and druid and learn about the spell systems so you have access to all different types of magic. You're gonna need it because the Forgotten Realms is a very high magic world, it will aid you tremendously and you don't want to bring just knifes to a gunfight.

It doesn't really matter what you want your main pc to be that much because you'll soon have a party of 6 characters to control and have access to all their leveling/talents/spells/equ, so it's not like a RPG where you only control 1 character and the decision on what type of character to create is a much more crucial one. I would say it depends on which characters you'll want to be picking up. I like to have diverse party myself.

For instance, if you want to roll up a fighter, your gonna be looking for a high strength, dexterity and constitution. 18 is the highest you can roll in each category. Keep rolling alot of times until you get good scores in each stat. Shoot for 16 at least in each stat. Str would be nice if you could get 17 or 18.

If you're rolling a thief, Dex is the #1 stat. Wisdom for a cleric, Intelligence for a magic user... The manual should explain alot here too. Here's some links also which will help you out. Use them as references.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/564785-pool-of-radiance/faqs/8566
http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/SpellProtections.htm (spell guide here too)
http://www.the-silver-river.com/GameInfo/BG2/NPC/NPC%20Title%20Page.html
http://www.forgottenwars.com/oogi/index.htm

Yea, BG1 is good too and you should really play that first, If you have both you can actually mod it and play as one huge game using the engine from BG2. http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/54-baldurs-gate-trilogy-weidu-115/

Maybe you should start with IWD 1 first, being that you don't have BG yet. It's very similar, rules wise (both use 2nd edition d&d) and a really good game too.

thanks a lot for the help
my problem with magic is basicly that it seems to be bugging out, my character refuses to use it sometimes and when he wants to cast a spell it's at an inoportune moment :/

as for BG1, i doubt i'll ever get my hands on it sadly
and i've played IWD1 last week, i had no clue what i should get in my party because making 6 guys is something i can't do without the basic rule set. i quit after i got out of the inn...

 

[Souplex]

Dragon Age: Origins is about the best that type of game can be.
If you can't enjoy Origins, you can't enjoy the genre.
Dragon Age: 2 is the worst the genre can be.

 

[4RM3D]

The Baldur's Gate 2 manual and the new Baldur's Gate 1 re-release manual aren't manuals, they are complete freaking encyclopedias. It's annoying to read through, but it's good if you want to look up a specific thing. What you need are practical hints.

Funny enough, I just commented on a similar post. I'll repeat what I've written there:

Baldur's Gate got a new (Hi-Def) re-release which you can check out here:
http://baldursgate.com/

You can read this:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1992/basic-game-tips-for-new-players

And this:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/5006/baldurs-gate-stats-and-you

For more info about the game.

PS. Planescape: Torment is easier in terms of gameplay.

 

[jetriot]

Games are far less complex and clunky today than they used to be. If you didn't grow up throwing in DOS commands to get something working or typing secret codes in from a manual it is easy to understand why these old CRPGs may appear complex. Really makes me wonder if streamlining is really for the best or if it reduces our ability to approach games creatively and think critically about ever mechanic.

I never played D&D before starting Baldurs gate and only realized less armor value was better when more expensive gear lowered my armor. I think I then noticed it in the manual. Still, it was a lot less complex than many games of the same period.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Pretty sure BG2 has a tutorial you could try out. You should also look up the AD&D rule as well, so you can get familiar with the gameplay systems at work. Once you get adjusted to one of those games, you can pretty much play any of the others, no sweat, since the minute-to-minute gameplay does not really change that drastically between them. Yes they are old games, and yes they take a bit of learning to get used to, but they are very rewarding once you do get adjusted to it.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Cheat? No Really... Cheat...

2nd Ed DnD is annoying and stupid in a lot of ways so I recommend downloading yourself Shadowkeeper for Baldurs Gate 2 and cheating yourself some healing potions and a main character with 18s in everything. It won't even make the game that much easier, it'll just give you the time you need to get used to how things work.

Captcha: Do you shop at canadian tire? STOP STALKING ME CAPTCHA!

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

Cheat? No Really... Cheat...

2nd Ed DnD is annoying and stupid in a lot of ways so I recommend downloading yourself Shadowkeeper for Baldurs Gate 2 and cheating yourself some healing potions and a main character with 18s in everything. It won't even make the game that much easier, it'll just give you the time you need to get used to how things work.

Captcha: Do you shop at canadian tire? STOP STALKING ME CAPTCHA!

i'd rather not, if people from the "previous generation" can do it without so can i!
captcah: don't stop... aww thanks!

Games are far less complex and clunky today than they used to be. If you didn't grow up throwing in DOS commands to get something working or typing secret codes in from a manual it is easy to understand why these old CRPGs may appear complex. Really makes me wonder if streamlining is really for the best or if it reduces our ability to approach games creatively and think critically about ever mechanic.

I never played D&D before starting Baldurs gate and only realized less armor value was better when more expensive gear lowered my armor. I think I then noticed it in the manual. Still, it was a lot less complex than many games of the same period.

i think the clunkiness of the combat is my problem

as for your the whole armor value thing you said, i don't understand what you're talking about ;/




as for everyone else, please don't recommend me games. i can't buy them

 

[TrevHead]

As someone has already mentioned you need to learn how spells work from the get go as not using magic will make the game times harder since you'll be using them kill tough enemies.

It's been a while since I've played these games but IIRC there is a option in BG to display the dice rolls that the PC makes during combat, If you pause and read it you should grasp the combat system pretty quickly. Just remember that the game works in dice rolls and not percentages that are common in modern CRPGs. So D4 is a 4 sided dice (1 to 4) a D10 is a roll of a 10 sided dice and so on. D6+2 is a roll of a standard dice with 2 added to it (ie 3-8) and for a weapon is better than a D8 which is 1-8.

If you save scum, pause alot and set up the AI to automatically use magic at set thresholds and autopause the game will be much easier.

 

[Bostur]

my problem with magic is basicly that it seems to be bugging out, my character refuses to use it sometimes and when he wants to cast a spell it's at an inoportune moment :/

Try turning party AI off and see if it makes a difference. The Baldur's Gate games has an option of AI control, which can sometimes assist since it removes the need to constantly retarget enemies, but sometimes it's in the way in regards to spell casters. The AI may simply override what you are trying to accomplish.

In the AI settings there may be a 'passive' option for spellcasters, in which they attack normally but don't cast spells unless you tell them to. Thats usually what I use.

I haven't played BG2 for ages, I'm currently playing BG1 enhanced edition, so I can't say for sure how to access the AI settings.

And of course you need to wait for a spell to finish until giving that character a new order. If the game has a setting to 'pause after spellcast' that can be useful to tell when the spell is done and the character ready for a new order.

as for your the whole armor value thing you said, i don't understand what you're talking about ;/

in D&D the effectiveness of armor is measured by armor class, usually shown in-game as AC. A lower number means more effective armor. So a fighter with Plate Mail AC2 is better protected than a thief in leather with AC6.

It can be rather confusing and it doesn't exactly help that these games tend to be inconsistent with the numbers used in armor bonuses.