CRPGs, how do i get into them?

[Christopher Fisher]

Try Fallout or Fallout 2. Both games are far better entry points into the old CRPGs, as the combat is fairly intuitive. Just be careful: the original Fallout games are WAAAAYYY harder than the newer ones. Even things like the molebeasts and radscorpions can very easily kill you.

 

[DrunkenMonkey]

Take breaks, crpgs wear people out too much because of constant reading.

For baldur's gate games just know that the lower the THAC0 and AC number the better, not higher and you'll be fine.
If some encounters become impossible either lower the difficulty, experiment with all your options, which means go through all your parties skills and equipment, and potions, etc.

planescape torment, treat it as a visual novel and it should grow on you.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

I had the same problems when I started to play Baldur's Gate a few years ago.I couldn't stomach the old graphics.The "oldest" CPRG that I have played started with Neverwinter Nights.I didn't have a computer back in the days to try these awesome games out.

Now with the release of Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition I thought I would go back and try to ignore the graphics part and just play it for the story.

I can fairly say after finishing BGEE and starting BG2 that it got me hooked and I cannot wait to see how these end.I will jump into Icewind Dale 1&2 and Planescape Torment after I finish BG2&TOB.

I wasn't much into D&D tabletop,but I learned the basics from NWN and from reading guides/strategies.I was quite hard at the beginning,but you get used to it once you know that the old D&D editions and THAC0 and the fact that the more -AC you have the better.

Conclusion: I've fallen in love with the stories of these classic games and I have no intention of stopping any time soon.

PS/OT: Regarding your problem,I would suggest you turn the difficulty slider at the lowest and try to learn it that way.Play the tutorial in Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition should be more than enough to make you understand the game better.

Other than that,if you are looking for some info regarding what some classes stat priority/abilities,there are a lot of wiki's that can help you play the class you want,it's requirements etc.

PS1: Don't give up on CRPG's just because the combat can become boring.Play them for the story and character development as well as romances(if you are into those).They are so very much worth it(Viconia romance all the way).

 

[BrotherRool]

Games are far less complex and clunky today than they used to be. If you didn't grow up throwing in DOS commands to get something working or typing secret codes in from a manual it is easy to understand why these old CRPGs may appear complex. Really makes me wonder if streamlining is really for the best or if it reduces our ability to approach games creatively and think critically about ever mechanic.

I never played D&D before starting Baldurs gate and only realized less armor value was better when more expensive gear lowered my armor. I think I then noticed it in the manual. Still, it was a lot less complex than many games of the same period.

A lot of the old time complexity was really just clunk that didn't add meaning to the game resulting from trying to port a system to a medium unsuited for it. Rolling stats, one use spells with resting etc were just bad decisions. And a lot of our ability to be creative and analyse it was actually just experience of similar games. You just learn that 18 dex 10 cha is more useful than 16 dex and 12 cha. No-one is smart enough to look at a new system and understand all it's implications without just grinding the experience. It#s not even possible until you understand the types of enemies you'll encounter.

And there are lots of very popular modern which show that creative and intelligent mechanic anaylsis is completely alive today. Starcraft 2, League of Legends, Dark Souls, Torchlight, Diablo 3, Modern Military Shooter perks and loadouts, World of Warcraft, EVE etc all have people who are insanely good at analysis and build creation.

In fact, Starcraft wise, back 10 years ago, the only people who could understand the mechanics of Starcraft, create builds and put them into play were Koreans, now those same Koreans are finding that there's new gamers all over the world who've developed the skillset to (almost) compete at their level. At least in SC terms, there's empirical evidence that we've become a lot better rather than gotten worse.

Even on a micro scale, ME3 levelling was a lot more streamlined than ME1, yet ME3 requires the greater understanding of class builds and interaction because ME1's choices were complex but ultimately pretty meaningless. Adding 1% to pistol damage or another 20 to shields, whereas ME3 required you to be able to discern whether it was more powerful for overload to hit three enemies, or have a larger radius and more power but only hit one enemy.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

OP: Ignore all the people telling you to buy other games (other than BG1 and Planescape: Torment, which you should pick up at some point in the future, after you finish BG2). Playing another game first isn't going to help.

As for BG2 - I think a lot of good tips have already been said. Here are mine:

1) Pause is your Best Friend. Use it all the damn time.

2) Cast spells BEFORE you need them. They take time to cast, so get them going. Don't cast cure when you're almost dead - cast it when you're at half HP. By the time it goes off, you might be lower.

3) Save Often. Remember the words of Pshyco Mantis.

And remember - the first dungeon is BRUTAL. Survive that and you'll have an easier time of it.

And finally, don't sweat the mechanics. Armor Class and THAC0 mostly matter in equipment upgrades. Lower = Better. Otherwise, don't worry about it. (and follow the creation tips above)

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

OP, if you want to ease into CRPGs you might try something a little more recent first.

You are sort of like a person whos never swam before jumping into the deep end of a pool.

I would recommend something like Dragon Age Origins to cut your teeth on as it is a spiritual successor to such games.

as i stated in a previous response, i've completed that game twice, it does not have the same feeling as NWN, IWD etc.

Try Fallout or Fallout 2. Both games are far better entry points into the old CRPGs, as the combat is fairly intuitive. Just be careful: the original Fallout games are WAAAAYYY harder than the newer ones. Even things like the molebeasts and radscorpions can very easily kill you.

i own both of those games but i'd preffer to play a crpg for now with the forgotten realms(i think?) setting

OP: Ignore all the people telling you to buy other games (other than BG1 and Planescape: Torment, which you should pick up at some point in the future, after you finish BG2). Playing another game first isn't going to help.

As for BG2 - I think a lot of good tips have already been said. Here are mine:

1) Pause is your Best Friend. Use it all the damn time.

2) Cast spells BEFORE you need them. They take time to cast, so get them going. Don't cast cure when you're almost dead - cast it when you're at half HP. By the time it goes off, you might be lower.

3) Save Often. Remember the words of Pshyco Mantis.

And remember - the first dungeon is BRUTAL. Survive that and you'll have an easier time of it.

And finally, don't sweat the mechanics. Armor Class and THAC0 mostly matter in equipment upgrades. Lower = Better. Otherwise, don't worry about it. (and follow the creation tips above)

i've already played PS:T, i thought it was an awesome game (story wise anyway) but i was forced to quit at the boss fight where the planes merged together or something, was a year ago so i don't remember
as for BG1, unless a copy falls out of the sky and infront of my feat, i'll never play it
i was actually talking about NWN when talking about spells
and who's psycho mantis?
also i still have no idea what AC and THAC0 do :/

 

[Verzin]

the first time I played Baldur's Gate 1, I knew NOTHING of DnD. I didn't even know what DnD was. I beat the game without knowing what THACO or AC was. I didn't even know why things missed or hit, or why wands worked sometimes but not others. Trial and error. And also abuse of agro mechanics to lure single enemies away from groups so I could kill them without dying.

Just play the game for the dialogue: that's what I did the first time. you'll pick up on things eventually so just enjoy the wonderful text.

Also: since it's your first time, I would suggest starting on BG2. The reason for this is that in BG1 EVERYTHING can kill you.

a lone ordinary Wolf can kill you.
A lone Gibberling can kill you.
A unavoidable encounter at the friendly arm inn(where most people go after leaving candlekeep to get their party members) can one shot you np.
EVERY HUMAN OPPONENT CAN "EASILY" kill you.\

in BG2 you have more levels(and thusly hitpoints) to work with and you won't be one shotted as often. it's much easier imo(until some of the final boss fights, that it).

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

i just started downloading BG2, i don't know yet how the game works but could someone recommend me a class? i don't want a build, that's something i want to figure out for myself, just a class.
and what difficulty level would be recommended?

also, thanks to the people that helped me with this

 

[Doom972]

For Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, and all otehr AD&D 2ed games, the following guide should get you going: http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/75251-baldurs-gate/faqs/8566

For NWN, which has a terrible manual BTW, use the Grimoire: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=other.detail&id=729 (no need to read all of it).

Have fun.

 

[Pink Gregory]

Also: since it's your first time, I would suggest starting on BG2. The reason for this is that in BG1 EVERYTHING can kill you.

a lone ordinary Wolf can kill you.
A lone Gibberling can kill you.
A unavoidable encounter at the friendly arm inn(where most people go after leaving candlekeep to get their party members) can one shot you np.
EVERY HUMAN OPPONENT CAN "EASILY" kill you.\

Especially if you choose to play as a wizard.

Seriously, I'm at least 3/4 of the way through the game and the man's still got something like 10 hitpoints.

You can tell I read the manual

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

i just started downloading BG2, i don't know yet how the game works but could someone recommend me a class? i don't want a build, that's something i want to figure out for myself, just a class.
and what difficulty level would be recommended?

also, thanks to the people that helped me with this

It doesn't really matter what class you choose. Pick anything that interests you. It's a party based game (you get 6 characters)

As far as difficulty level goes, Core (d&d) Rules is where its at.

oh i put it on normal :s
i'm having fun with it now i know what AC and thac0 does
is core that much harder?

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

i've already played PS:T, i thought it was an awesome game (story wise anyway) but i was forced to quit at the boss fight where the planes merged together or something, was a year ago so i don't remember

Damn! You were really near the end! You quit because of a game glich (that fight tends to glich) or because the combat was an issue?

I bring it up because BG2 and Planescape Torment have (almost) exactly the same combat system.

and who's psycho mantis?

A character from Metal Gear Solid who breaks the 4th wall by talking about your save files. If you save often, he says that you're a very cautious person.

also i still have no idea what AC and THAC0 do :/

THAC0 = To Hit Armor Class 0. What THAC0 does is tell you what number (between 1 and 20) you would have to roll for you to hit a character with Armor Class (AC) 0, which is a fairly good AC.

For example, if your THAC0 is 20, then you'd have to roll a natural 20 (a 5% chance) to hit a character with AC 0. To hit a character with AC 10 (the worst AC possible), you'd have to roll a 10 (because 20 - 10 = 10) or higher. To hit a character with AC 5, you'd have to roll a 15.

Thus, the lower your THAC0 gets, the easier it is to hit AC 0. If your THAC0 is 10, then you only have to roll a 10 or better (a 50% chance to succeed) to hit a character with AC 0, and you'd only have to not roll a natural 1 (critical failure) to hit a character with AC 10. And you'd have to roll a 15 to hit a character with AC -5.

Since everything is based off of AC 0, the lower your AC is, the better. If you can make it to AC 0, then you are very difficult to hit. If you can make it into negative numbers, then you're even harder to hit.

Anyway, I hope that explains why it is better to have a lower AC and THAC0. Now, the only time this really comes up is during equipment (otherwise you have no control over your AC or THAC0 after character creation - they remain constant unless altered by equipment or level increase). However, if the manual has been confusing you with the terms, now you know what they mean.

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

i've already played PS:T, i thought it was an awesome game (story wise anyway) but i was forced to quit at the boss fight where the planes merged together or something, was a year ago so i don't remember

Damn! You were really near the end! You quit because of a game glich (that fight tends to glich) or because the combat was an issue?

I bring it up because BG2 and Planescape Torment have (almost) exactly the same combat system.

and who's psycho mantis?

A character from Metal Gear Solid who breaks the 4th wall by talking about your save files. If you save often, he says that you're a very cautious person.

also i still have no idea what AC and THAC0 do :/

THAC0 = To Hit Armor Class 0. What THAC0 does is tell you what number (between 1 and 20) you would have to roll for you to hit a character with Armor Class (AC) 0, which is a fairly good AC.

For example, if your THAC0 is 20, then you'd have to roll a natural 20 (a 5% chance) to hit a character with AC 0. To hit a character with AC 10 (the worst AC possible), you'd have to roll a 10 (because 20 - 10 = 10) or higher. To hit a character with AC 5, you'd have to roll a 15.

Thus, the lower your THAC0 gets, the easier it is to hit AC 0. If your THAC0 is 10, then you only have to roll a 10 or better (a 50% chance to succeed) to hit a character with AC 0, and you'd only have to not roll a natural 1 (critical failure) to hit a character with AC 10. And you'd have to roll a 15 to hit a character with AC -5.

Since everything is based off of AC 0, the lower your AC is, the better. If you can make it to AC 0, then you are very difficult to hit. If you can make it into negative numbers, then you're even harder to hit.

Anyway, I hope that explains why it is better to have a lower AC and THAC0. Now, the only time this really comes up is during equipment (otherwise you have no control over your AC or THAC0 after character creation - they remain constant unless altered by equipment or level increase). However, if the manual has been confusing you with the terms, now you know what they mean.

1, i quit PS:T because the only weakness i had was spells. you see he has the almighty spell of screen flicker, he makes my screen flash and after that the game (and my screen aswell) crash.
i was a mage and i didn't really enjoy it tbh.
also now that you mention it, yes the gameplay is similar to PS:T

2, i never played MGS so i wouldn't know ^^

3, thanks a lot! i understood what AC was but thac0 was still a bit weird for me (although i think i understood it)

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

i just started downloading BG2, i don't know yet how the game works but could someone recommend me a class? i don't want a build, that's something i want to figure out for myself, just a class.
and what difficulty level would be recommended?

also, thanks to the people that helped me with this

It doesn't really matter what class you choose. Pick anything that interests you. It's a party based game (you get 6 characters)

As far as difficulty level goes, Core (d&d) Rules is where its at.

oh i put it on normal :s
i'm having fun with it now i know what AC and thac0 does
is core that much harder?

I don't know. Never played it on normal. Core isn't too hard though (if you heed the advise I gave you in this thread), unless you're trying to play in real time without any pausing or something.

i found out the playing real time is a bad idea, i tried using grease on enemies and ended up having my whole party fall on their asses because i didn't move them fast enough
but i'll try core difficulty, so far i'm having a lot of fun

edit: I was playing on casual without noticing it, no wonder it was so easy... i shouldn't be allowed acces to the internet '-,-

 

[Entourian]

My code for playing CRPGs always was
1.Save Often. Particularly before you rest and after combat.
2.Have Pause for every turn until you get the hang of combat. I still leave pause for when my mages get ready to cast magic.
3.GET A CLERIC as early as you can. In these games those 1-2 healing spells can be the difference between a TPK and surviving a dungeon.
4.Keep THACO and AC low.
5.Finally if you come across a couple rooms that are empty be ready for a big fight next door.

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

GET A CLERIC as early as you can. In these games those 1-2 healing spells can be the difference between a TPK and surviving a dungeon.

could you tell me which cleric you recommend? i read somewhere there's a cleric/druid who ends up killing a party member and i want to avoid that

 

[funksobeefy]

what does the c in crpg stand for?

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

what does the c in crpg stand for?

classic if i'm not mistaking

 

[Entourian]

GET A CLERIC as early as you can. In these games those 1-2 healing spells can be the difference between a TPK and surviving a dungeon.

could you tell me which cleric you recommend? i read somewhere there's a cleric/druid who ends up killing a party member and i want to avoid that

If playing Baldurs gate 2 Aerie was the one i got, for she is the arguably the first one you can meet. In the first one i got the cleric trapped in stone.

 

[Laurents van Cauwenberghe]

GET A CLERIC as early as you can. In these games those 1-2 healing spells can be the difference between a TPK and surviving a dungeon.

could you tell me which cleric you recommend? i read somewhere there's a cleric/druid who ends up killing a party member and i want to avoid that

If playing Baldurs gate 2 Aerie was the one i got, for she is the arguably the first one you can meet. In the first one i got the cleric trapped in stone.

so i read the info of aerie on a site someone linked before, this is their opinion:
"Aerie is an interesting character. Many people dislike her for her whiney tone, but let me ask you - if someone sawed your limbs off when you were a teenager, don't you think you would lack a little confidence?"
does her "bitching" interupt gameplay much? if not i'm going for her