Crytek: 8GB RAM Will be a Limiting Factor For PS4/Xbox One Development

[erbkaiser]

Are Xbone and PS4 games 32-bit or 64-bit?

Because going by PC, Crytek has dropped 64-bit support. Crysis 1 and Warhead had a 64-bit executable, but Crysis 2 and 3 are 32-bit only. This means they can only address about 3GB of RAM, no matter how much you have installed.

If the Xbone/PS4 game is running on the console's 32-bit architecture, 8GB should be more than enough.
--

If I run Crysis 3 on max settings on my Windows box, RAM use never goes above 8GB. About 5GB is resident crap and the OS, the game takes up another 3GB.

The only programs I have that actually use more RAM are stuff like Photoshop which is 64-bit native.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

Of course it gets filled up easily because of the unified ram.

That said..I don't see these consoles managing to handling games that are going to be developed in the coming years. Technology is evolving at a rapid pace.

I do wonder when this happens if some developers will go "Why should be compromise and change our game to work for these underpowered consoles when we can make it for the PC that has pretty much freedom when it comes to hardware."

 

[gigastar]

Just keep in mind that most devs were pulling 720p 30fps out of the PS3s 256MB of RAM.

Though itll be interesting to see whether the trend will go towards higher resolution or higher framerate.

I do wonder when this happens if some developers will go "Why should be compromise and change our game to work for these underpowered consoles when we can make it for the PC that has pretty much freedom when it comes to hardware."

And then PC Gaming will flourish anew, as was foretold in the Book of Gabe.

 

[grigjd3]

Just keep in mind that most devs were pulling 720p 30fps out of the PS3s 256MB of RAM.

It's not that simple. 720p is 1280 x 720 = 921600 pixels. Today, people are expecting 1080p (I've been played at that level on my PC for about four years now). That comes in at 1920 x 1080 = 2073600 pixels. More over, at higher resolutions, you need much detailed textures. 1024x1024 textures have for a long time been standard on 720p machines but even 4096 x 4096 doesn't look terrific at 1080p (unless you are playing largely dark-looking games like Deus Ex). More over, I am tired of horribly scripted AI's. I want some real logic behind their actions and I want that to occur when I am not looking as well. Lastly, it would be nice if character movement wasn't stiff as a brick. These things are all bringing up the hardware cost but so are many other things.

As games become more complex, developers can no longer afford to program in a lower level language like C where they get more efficiency but rather are largely starting to program in higher level languages like Python. These languages are not as perfectly efficient, but when you are making a game with a ~20 GB compiled executable (and that is reasonable by today's standards), if you were to optimize every line of code, you would add five years to the development time.

They're making a very real statement here.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Assuming the Xbox one is running Windows, which it probably is, then 8 gigs might be a problem in the long run. Windows is a hog in general, as in memory and storage requirements. When it gets to be near the end of the generation, I would not be surprised if the 8 gigs becomes an issue as graphical quality improves the longer the generation lasts. Just look at the last gen. Devs were somehow making due with 512mb (total, this isn't taking into consideration Sony's split memory for system and video).

As a Linux user, I don't think the solution would be to "just add more RAM", make the software more efficient. But as technology progresses, we inevitably have to increase hardware specs to accommodate more advanced technologies, and unfortunately, I think consoles are severely behind the curve. This is especially true when you consider that these things are supposed to exist, as is without possibility of expansion, for a decade.

Are Xbone and PS4 games 32-bit or 64-bit?

Because going by PC, Crytek has dropped 64-bit support. Crysis 1 and Warhead had a 64-bit executable, but Crysis 2 and 3 are 32-bit only. This means they can only address about 3GB of RAM, no matter how much you have installed.

Current gen consoles are x86_64 and Crysis 2/3 games were 32 bit arch using memory aware flag to address more ram, although I believe you still need to be using a 64bit OS in order to make use of that RAM. Who the hell uses 32 bit arch OS except for ancient machines and cheap laptops?

 

[Eruanno]

The PS4 has a separate chip for it's recording function and I believe that chip isn't counted within the 8GB. They were really wary about how they got stuck on the cross-party chart thing last time, so they wanted to make sure that most of the OS services were offloaded to something else instead of running with the game playing hardware

What kind of chip? "A separate chip" doesn't really mean much.

There is a separate (probably ARM) chip seen on the iFixit teardown of the PS4. Scroll down to step 20 here: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation+4+Teardown/19493

 

[RicoADF]

Just opened up my memory usage on my PC and it's hovering around 4gb - just from the OS, browsing the internet, and listening to music. So... 4GB of passive memory usage plus 4 GB of games... bam, you're already at 8 GB. And you say some games are already using 6 GB?

You can't really compare the PC (with bloated Windows and lots of extra software) to consoles which are dedicated to playing games first and foremost. Also since the games made for it are optimised better than PC games the requirements aren't as high. Unfortunately because alot of AAA companies have the attitude of "the user can always upgrade their hardware" they don't optimize the games as well/put as much effort in as on console especially since most games are made for the consoles first, PC second. So the performance/requirements of a game on PC aren't at all compatible to console.

To be frank Crytek seem to be whiners all around, they make games to look as pretty as they can, often with little story or substance and want PC level power on consoles which is stupid. Consoles have never and will never surpass a PC on hardware power, which is not a bad thing their designed for a plug and play market not Crytek's market of pushing the graphical envelope which they haven't done as much since they basically gave PC gamers the finger and turned to console.

EDIT: That said my system is sitting at 2GB with the browser open, starting a video and running steam pushed it to 2.32GB on a system with 8GB. I've never seen my system push past 4GB, heck the one time I had to drop down to 4GB due to a faulty ram stick there was no drop in performance as it's all my system uses anyway.

 

[Under_your_bed]

Just opened up my memory usage on my PC and it's hovering around 4gb - just from the OS, browsing the internet, and listening to music. So... 4GB of passive memory usage plus 4 GB of games... bam, you're already at 8 GB. And you say some games are already using 6 GB?

Jesus H. Christ, how inefficient and bloated is your install? Do you know what I have to do to break 4GB?

Spoiler

Let's start with 10 RAM-hungry youtube tabs on google chrome!

Followed by 10 less-consumptive pages with images, e-mails and a forum or two.

Plus Bioshock Inifnite at Ultra, for which 4GB of RAM is recommended.

Yahtzee's latest Indie game, because why not?

Along with Skype, Audacity, Windows Media Player and Windows Movie editor.

Look at all those lovely programs!

....And look at how much I don't actually need that much RAM!

http://imgur.com/a/jjQi6#0 [Imgur gallery]

The only time I have ever used all 8GB in my PC was when I had 2GB reserved for a ram drive [AsRock Xfast RAM, which I have since stopped bothering with], 1GB for my Intel integrated graphics [I've since upgraded], Bioshock Infinite running and about 20 youtube tabs open in the background.

OT: Colour me unsurprised. This is what happens when both the XBOX one [http://gimmegimmegames.com/2013/05/microsoft-confirms-xbox-one-os-uses-3gb-ram-5gb-ram-for-games/] and the PS4 [http://www.vg247.com/2013/07/26/ps4-has-up-to-5-5gb-of-ram-for-developers-4-5gb-guaranteed-1gb-of-flexible-memory/] have only 5-ish GB available for developers to work with. But it's worth it for TV-Sports-Kinect/The PS4 share button, amirite folks?

 

[BloodRed Pixel]

Remember when 640k was enough for anyone?

I even remember when 64K was enough for everyone - and the games were just as enjoyable.

captcha: end of story

 

[Sheen Lantern]

Remember when 640k was enough for anyone?

I don't remember when 2GB was enough for everyone.

 

[Xman490]

As someone who's had 16 GB of RAM in my PC for the last two years, I have to agree that 8 GB seems a little low for the new consoles. Perhaps Microsoft and Sony will release a way to upgrade RAM in their consoles so we can surmount this obstacle in the future?

Source: Gaming Bolt [http://gamingbolt.com/crytek-8gb-ram-can-be-easily-filled-up-will-surely-be-limiting-factor-on-ps4xbox-one]

I think there should be full upgrades to the consoles in the next few years. They would then be able to run games at 1080p and at least 60fps. After all, most televisions meet that golden standard. It seems feasible for "new" consoles to run what their previous iterations have done, but much better.

 

[kasperbbs]

What he is saying might be true, but i would rather that they made games actually worth playing and not just something pretty to look at. Yes Crysis 3 was pretty, but was it a good game? Well, sort of, wouldn't touch it a second time. And Ryse was just a bunch of quick time events. I really don't care what the guys who make interactive tech demos have to say about consoles.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

More is better. But they Crytek has always been about the graphics first. Which is why Crysis 2 and 3 wernt that good. Though i do hear Crysis 1 is so much better? Gears had great graphics, GTA5, Skyrim and FC3 look great on the 360.

 

[erbkaiser]

Current gen consoles are x86_64 and Crysis 2/3 games were 32 bit arch using memory aware flag to address more ram, although I believe you still need to be using a 64bit OS in order to make use of that RAM. Who the hell uses 32 bit arch OS except for ancient machines and cheap laptops?

Even with the flag set (LAA, Large Address Aware), the limit is a hard 4GB per app for a 32-bit application, at least on Windows.

 

[Gailim]

Just opened up my memory usage on my PC and it's hovering around 4gb - just from the OS, browsing the internet, and listening to music. So... 4GB of passive memory usage plus 4 GB of games... bam, you're already at 8 GB. And you say some games are already using 6 GB?

Jesus H. Christ, how inefficient and bloated is your install? Do you know what I have to do to break 4GB?

Spoiler

Let's start with 10 RAM-hungry youtube tabs on google chrome!

Followed by 10 less-consumptive pages with images, e-mails and a forum or two.

Plus Bioshock Inifnite at Ultra, for which 4GB of RAM is recommended.

Yahtzee's latest Indie game, because why not?

Along with Skype, Audacity, Windows Media Player and Windows Movie editor.

Look at all those lovely programs!

....And look at how much I don't actually need that much RAM!

http://imgur.com/a/jjQi6#0 [Imgur gallery]

The only time I have ever used all 8GB in my PC was when I had 2GB reserved for a ram drive [AsRock Xfast RAM, which I have since stopped bothering with], 1GB for my Intel integrated graphics [I've since upgraded], Bioshock Infinite running and about 20 youtube tabs open in the background.

OT: Colour me unsurprised. This is what happens when both the XBOX one [http://gimmegimmegames.com/2013/05/microsoft-confirms-xbox-one-os-uses-3gb-ram-5gb-ram-for-games/] and the PS4 [http://www.vg247.com/2013/07/26/ps4-has-up-to-5-5gb-of-ram-for-developers-4-5gb-guaranteed-1gb-of-flexible-memory/] have only 5-ish GB available for developers to work with. But it's worth it for TV-Sports-Kinect/The PS4 share button, amirite folks?

It's not bloat.

If the ram is free windows will try to use it for prefetching. Basically Windows will preemptively load your most common programs into the RAM in order to launch them faster. But it will only do this when the ram is not needed for something else. that is why your memory usage is high when your not doing much

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista_I/O_technologies#SuperFetch

 

[Callate]

I only recently expanded to 9. I'm hoping that will be enough for a while. I got by on 3 for quite some time before that...

And, yeah, OSs and such will frequently leech over to fill all available space, given half a chance; I don't know that that means we should be enabling programmers in such behavior.

Remember that the XBox 360 and PS3 each had half a gig of memory apiece. They're still making games for them. I'm sure it's gotten to feel very restricting, and more would be handy, but I can't help but look askance at the idea that at least ten times as much memory (including the memory-gobbling OS that comes with the XB1) isn't at least a place to start making inroads.

 

[Something Amyss]

I agree with what he is saying, 8 GB of RAM will be hard to last for 7-8 years.

HOWEVER.
People, your games right now, Crysis 3, Metro Last Light and Battlefield 4 included do not make use of EVEN 6 GB of RAM (and usually even 4 GB is enough).
@Steven Bogos
Currently and at least for the next 2-3 MAYBE even 4 years, 8 GB is more then enough.

almost half of that is consumed by the OS out of the gate for both consoles, meaning that 4 GB will HAVE to be enough.

But remember, that's fine largely because consoles have been "holding gaming back," and this console gen was supposed to remedy that. Crytek isn't completely right, but yeah, they've got a point.

 

[Something Amyss]

You can't really compare the PC (with bloated Windows and lots of extra software) to consoles which are dedicated to playing games first and foremost.

Yes, but we're not talking about those consoles. We're talking about the Xbone and PS4, which have 3.5-ish GB of RAM dedicated to their OS and other functions. In fact, the major difference appears to be that PC, unlike Xbone and PS4, doesn't have to reserve that much space.

 

[The White Hunter]

Um yeah no, neither of their GPU's has a hope in hell of saturating it's available memory any time soon.

 

[oldtaku]

PS4 and XB1 are announced with 8GB RAM instead of the expected 4GB of RAM. A huge step up from the pathetic 512 MB on PS3 and XBox 360.

Devs everywhere: 'Wow, that's awesome!'

Crytek: 'Lol, we can bloat that up no problem.'