Crytek: 8GB RAM Will be a Limiting Factor For PS4/Xbox One Development

crazygameguy4ever

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Crytek is just greedy.. People complained about the PS3 only having 256 mbs of ram.. now it has 8GBs.. that's a vast improvement.. and if developers have done just fine with only 256 mbs of ram for 8 years and counting, then i'm pretty sure they can do a lot with the huge chunk of memory they have now.
 

Strazdas

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lacktheknack said:
I'd say that my 8GB is barely enough to cover the full range of stuff I end up using my computer for. Check your memory usage in the task manager next time you've got everything open, you'll be shocked.
I run on 8 GB of RAM. I am yet to see it filled. Closest i got was over 6 GB and ironically there was no game running at that time too. Games in the future may need it, granted. currently im yet to see a game that gobbles more than 4 GB (except moded grand strategy games where mods consist larger part of the game than game itself).

Steven Bogos said:
Just opened up my memory usage on my PC and it's hovering around 4gb - just from the OS, browsing the internet, and listening to music. So... 4GB of passive memory usage plus 4 GB of games... bam, you're already at 8 GB. And you say some games are already using 6 GB?
Thats not how it works though. Your OS likes to keep stuff in memory for fast acess when there is a lot of free memory available. If you were to take your memory used by programs and summed that you would get actual commited memory. the rest is just "we used it at some point so wre nto deleting it in case we need it again". once a game launches your 4 GB OS gobble goes down to 0.5gb and that 3.5 gb gets taken over by the game.
also if your music player and browser eats 4 GB you may want to check for problems. ive never seen my Firefox reach 1 GB and my music player is ~20mb (granted i use Foobar2000 because i like clean costumizable interface).

Sgt. Sykes said:
It's the same problem as the low-end graphics card with a ridiculous amount of RAM. Until recently I had a card with 512 MB RAM w which was just fine for everything in 1920*1080 but struggled in 2560*1440. Now I have a 2GB card (I had to switch, it wasn't by choice really) which often struggles even in 1920*1080.

I'd even say that the amount of RAM is usually the least of concern.
your talking about Video Ram (VRAM) which does have huge swings in terms of resolution. the regular RAM does not effect resolution displays, but rather is a templorar memory for the PC. you know like when you are asked to remember a number that you will need later you keep it in your thought till you need it, and after you use it you "forget it". thats templorar memory. RAM is used for templorar memory. It calculates enemy AI paths and actions, but once you close the game it "forgets it".

BrotherRool said:
Geez guys, 50% +change of Steam users have 4GB or less RAM (and a good 1GB of that gets wasted on Windows). Let our computers play these things please, not everyone wants to spend stacks of money on shinier pixels
or you can just play on medium settings and it will be fine? or you know buy more ram? RAM is one of the cheapest parts of your PC. you can pick up 8 GB for 20 dollars.
and yes, you can upgrade laptops. its harder to disassemble them and not all parts are changeable, but RAM certainly is.

lacktheknack said:
and then I start recording, and instantly everything hits the ceiling. The new consoles have a recording function, I bet it has a similar jump.
when your recording your recorder has to capture the video in real time - doubling the load, keep it in RAM long enough to encode it (your CPU hits the ceiling here) and then write it to disc (HDD cries out in pain). recording actually may take more resources than the game itself.
And consoles apperently are recording all the time and purging the info thats older than 30 secs, what with "always possible 30 second share" and isntant achievement replay....
actually, that could explain why a half-decent console GPU is performing so badly.


Charcharo said:
Motion blur- normal
this is illogical. existence of motion blur is abnormal. It should read: No Motion blur - normal.

Rex Dark said:
Remember when 640k was enough for anyone?
no. It never was.

Roxor said:
This again? Haven't these guys ever heard of procedural content? You know, make some functions, feed them parameters, and have them make content using just tens of kilobytes of memory, rather than hundreds of megabytes.
high precision complex procedural input of textures takes tens of kilobytes? please show how it may revolutionize the market!


erbkaiser said:
Are Xbone and PS4 games 32-bit or 64-bit?

Because going by PC, Crytek has dropped 64-bit support. Crysis 1 and Warhead had a 64-bit executable, but Crysis 2 and 3 are 32-bit only. This means they can only address about 3GB of RAM, no matter how much you have installed.
Crysis 1 was PC game, so it supported 64 bit.
Crysis 2 and 3 was a multiplayform game and previuos consoles only knew 32 bit so they only developed that (and plenty more things were dropped).
New consoles can run 64 bit applications, which may finally bring games into supporting 64 bits properly. Its running standard 86x PC architecture, which supports both 64 and 32 bits.

gigastar said:
Just keep in mind that most devs were pulling 720p 30fps out of the PS3s 256MB of RAM.
erm, no, no they werent. Most games were upscaling to 720p. And PS3 had 512 mb of shared ram, new consoles also use shared ram.
Also RAM does far more than resolution or framerate.

The trend currently goes - nothing improved.

RicoADF said:
You can't really compare the PC (with bloated Windows and lots of extra software) to consoles which are dedicated to playing games first and foremost. Also since the games made for it are optimised better than PC games the requirements aren't as high.

To be frank Crytek want PC level power on consoles which is stupid. Consoles have never and will never surpass a PC on hardware power...
That may have been true in the past. not anymore. consoles are now dedicated to TV, sports, more TV and maybe a little bit of games. Also they are NOT optimized better than PC this generation, because the architecture is identical and anything optimized for console will also transfer to PC version.

Its not stupid. It was a standard at the beginning of each generation all the time except this generation. This release is the odd man out. In fact when Xbox 360 launched it has surpassed high end PCs of that time, PS3 even more so.



SonOfVoorhees said:
GTA5, Skyrim and FC3 look great on the 360.
you can speak all you want about gameplay enjoyment and comfort, but when it comes to looks 360 is fucking awful.
GTA5 looks worse than games on PC looked 4 years ago......



crazygameguy4ever said:
and if developers have done just fine with only 256 mbs of ram for 8 years and counting, then i'm pretty sure they can do a lot with the huge chunk of memory they have now.
but thats the thing. developers werent doing fine. they were cutting out your game content to fit in that ram and complaining about it for over 5 years now.
 

BrotherRool

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Strazdas said:
BrotherRool said:
Geez guys, 50% +change of Steam users have 4GB or less RAM (and a good 1GB of that gets wasted on Windows). Let our computers play these things please, not everyone wants to spend stacks of money on shinier pixels
or you can just play on medium settings and it will be fine? or you know buy more ram? RAM is one of the cheapest parts of your PC. you can pick up 8 GB for 20 dollars.
and yes, you can upgrade laptops. its harder to disassemble them and not all parts are changeable, but RAM certainly is.
I've had longer posts going through this earlier in the thread, but the short is: I have a laptop and compared to a laptop a Desktop PC is a massive inconvenience and waste of space.
 

RicoADF

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Strazdas said:
That may have been true in the past. not anymore. consoles are now dedicated to TV, sports, more TV and maybe a little bit of games. Also they are NOT optimized better than PC this generation, because the architecture is identical and anything optimized for console will also transfer to PC version.

Its not stupid. It was a standard at the beginning of each generation all the time except this generation. This release is the odd man out. In fact when Xbox 360 launched it has surpassed high end PCs of that time, PS3 even more so.
Having the TV input is far from demanding on the hardware, it's just a video input, which I might add is a XBO feature not PS4, so that's applicable to one system.

As for optimisation, well actually it still is partly relevant. Games on PC could be optimised far better than they are however publishers have the attitude that PC gamers can just buy better hardware and don't care to put the time and effort in. The consoles however often have to be and since their seen as the primary systems get the extra effort. The fact their all x86/64 doesn't change that optimisation wont be prioritised on the consoles nor does it change the fact that because their hardware is set on each console that they will be better optimised as the hardware in the system is known, with PC's you could have the latest AMD, Intel, Nvidia or anything below, not to mention other hardware combinations.

You could optimise the game for your PC to run far better if you had the source code and the knowledge, but it'd only have the positive effect on your specific hardware setup. Some linux distros have tools to optimise the OS based on your hardware, it takes time but the resulting install is more efficient as it's been setup for your machine specifically.

The fact it's standard does not make it less stupid, while yes improvements to graphics is nice their not the be all of the game, Crytek unfortunately focus heavily on this to the detriment of others parts of their games. Crysis 1 was pretty good though.

Sgt. Sykes said:
Yes I know what it is. That's why I don't think that larger console RAM would help run the games in higher resolution.

BTW consoles actually share the system and video RAM, there's no difference between then.
BTW2 you sure quote a lot.
Some consoles share the ram some don't, in this generation XBO and PS4 do as their APU's (CPU + GPU rolled into one) and thus why the ram is shared.

EDIT: Broke up a clump of text into paragraphs.
 

Strazdas

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Sgt. Sykes said:
Strazdas said:
your talking about Video Ram (VRAM) which does have huge swings in terms of resolution. the regular RAM does not effect resolution displays, but rather is a templorar memory for the PC.
Yes I know what it is. That's why I don't think that larger console RAM would help run the games in higher resolution.

BTW consoles actually share the system and video RAM, there's no difference between then.
BTW2 you sure quote a lot.
It would be pointless to try running the consoles in high resolution due to their weak GPU but they seem to not able to do decent desolutions anyway. the thing is, noone her was speaking about resolution. we spoke about regular RAM benefits. Crytek didnt say it because they wanted higher resolution, they said it because they ran out of memory.

Consoles share RAM. Pcs do it better and utilize different type of RAM for different purposes, having the best of both worlds.

BrotherRool said:
Strazdas said:
BrotherRool said:
Geez guys, 50% +change of Steam users have 4GB or less RAM (and a good 1GB of that gets wasted on Windows). Let our computers play these things please, not everyone wants to spend stacks of money on shinier pixels
or you can just play on medium settings and it will be fine? or you know buy more ram? RAM is one of the cheapest parts of your PC. you can pick up 8 GB for 20 dollars.
and yes, you can upgrade laptops. its harder to disassemble them and not all parts are changeable, but RAM certainly is.
I've had longer posts going through this earlier in the thread, but the short is: I have a laptop and compared to a laptop a Desktop PC is a massive inconvenience and waste of space.
And i never said you have to change that. Whats your point?
And your situation must be quite rare too.

Charcharo said:
@Strazdas
Motion Blur normal means DX11 Object Dynamic Motion Blur for Metro. It is the only game where I LOVE the effect.
@ sign does not work in notifying me you responded here.
Dont know what kind of object dynamic motion blur Metro uses, but all motion blur i saw was a "nope nope nope turn it off" situation.

RicoADF said:
Having the TV input is far from demanding on the hardware, it's just a video input, which I might add is a XBO feature not PS4, so that's applicable to one system.

As for optimisation, well actually it still is partly relevant. Games on PC could be optimised far better than they are however publishers have the attitude that PC gamers can just buy better hardware and don't care to put the time and effort in. The consoles however often have to be and since their seen as the primary systems get the extra effort. The fact their all x86/64 doesn't change that optimisation wont be prioritised on the consoles nor does it change the fact that because their hardware is set on each console that they will be better optimised as the hardware in the system is known, with PC's you could have the latest AMD, Intel, Nvidia or anything below, not to mention other hardware combinations.

You could optimise the game for your PC to run far better if you had the source code and the knowledge, but it'd only have the positive effect on your specific hardware setup. Some linux distros have tools to optimise the OS based on your hardware, it takes time but the resulting install is more efficient as it's been setup for your machine specifically.

The fact it's standard does not make it less stupid, while yes improvements to graphics is nice their not the be all of the game, Crytek unfortunately focus heavily on this to the detriment of others parts of their games. Crysis 1 was pretty good though.
The TV part was in response to consoles being "dedicated gaming machines". which they clearly no longer are. TV is just a video input. TV on xbox however goes via the OS processing and thus is a burden on the system. Also video processing even from input requires power too, power which of course is laughable in modern PCs, but then, console isnt a modern PC now is it.

Irrelevant in this case. Due to identical infrastructure there will be no extra costs to optimize for each system, do it on one your golden for all 3. The atitude notwithstanding. Well, of course they can go like Infinity Ward did and bloat requirements and refuse instalation with lower requirements even if the game ran on maximum with less than half of these requirements. But these are rare now.

Hardware being known or not is irrelevant. they code for same APIs. They use same drivers. the only difference was actual difference in hardware. nobody codes for deep layer APIs. its a waste of time and money. the console and PC processes the game in same way.

No, it would not have positive effect on only my setup. thats not how it works. well, unless i had a very strnage setup, such as 10 year old CPU and move everythign to GPU, but people that have that are not the audience for games and are so rare we can ignore them.

Graphic standards are not stupid though. they are sales makers. the easiest way to sell a game is to show off its graphics. thats why so much attention is given there. its much harder to market for good AI. and when you are hit with outdated hardware like consoles the developers sacrifice gameplay for graphics, when on fast hardware you dont need the sacrifice.
 

RicoADF

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Strazdas said:
And i never said you have to change that. Whats your point?
And your situation must be quite rare too.
I actually know quite a few friends in that sort of position, often because of work but others it's for education. They want to game but need to be more flexible than going home to a desktop to play. Laptops can play games fine as long as you get one with a decent dedicated GPU, you may need to turn the settings down but that doesn't bother most people. I have a laptop as well as my towering monolith to use for LAN gaming (which I do quite often) I can just put it in a bag with the mouse and head off, no stuffing around with lugging a tower + keyboard + 2 monitors around.
 

Strazdas

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RicoADF said:
Strazdas said:
And i never said you have to change that. Whats your point?
And your situation must be quite rare too.
I actually know quite a few friends in that sort of position, often because of work but others it's for education. They want to game but need to be more flexible than going home to a desktop to play. Laptops can play games fine as long as you get one with a decent dedicated GPU, you may need to turn the settings down but that doesn't bother most people. I have a laptop as well as my towering monolith to use for LAN gaming (which I do quite often) I can just put it in a bag with the mouse and head off, no stuffing around with lugging a tower + keyboard + 2 monitors around.
I can understand a situation when you have to travel for work or carry information more complex than tablet can handle. but like i said, that is a rare situation. I done the mistake buying a laptop for studies. in 6 years of studies i have brought the laptop over a total of 4 times. waste of money is what it was.
Laptops can play games fine, but you pay twice the price for same power in GPU. That wasnt the discussion though. the discussion was that we suggested the person to spend 20 dollars and buy some RAM since he thought his current RAM was not enough.

Granted i dont go to many LAN parties, but im yet to see where someone brings TWO monitors. you must have been a star :p
 

BrotherRool

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Strazdas said:
BrotherRool said:
Strazdas said:
BrotherRool said:
Geez guys, 50% +change of Steam users have 4GB or less RAM (and a good 1GB of that gets wasted on Windows). Let our computers play these things please, not everyone wants to spend stacks of money on shinier pixels
or you can just play on medium settings and it will be fine? or you know buy more ram? RAM is one of the cheapest parts of your PC. you can pick up 8 GB for 20 dollars.
and yes, you can upgrade laptops. its harder to disassemble them and not all parts are changeable, but RAM certainly is.
I've had longer posts going through this earlier in the thread, but the short is: I have a laptop and compared to a laptop a Desktop PC is a massive inconvenience and waste of space.
And i never said you have to change that. Whats your point?
And your situation must be quite rare too.
As a PC gaming forum it's very natural to think my situation is rare, but actually I'm pretty sure I'm in the majority if you also include the people who don't know they can/aren't technically able to upgrade. I'm sure that I have way more friends with laptops than friends with computers, and of my friends with computers I best most of them wouldn't know how to upgrade it.

Everyone round here thinks that everyone has super awesome game crunching machines, but the majority of Steam users (not PC owners, this is active PC gamers) don't. The lack of a graphics race is really awesome for all of those people, less so when games focus on the high end.

Because 'play it on medium settings' doesn't work a lot of the time. I currently own a lot of games that I can't play on low settings and we've had plenty of ridiculous cases recently of games asking for 6GB RAM minimum (even when it can run on less). The games where playing on lower settings is easy are often the games whose developers haven't been pushing for pie-in-the-sky look-at-the-pixels Titanesque specs or whatever.

It's been very nice to be in a situation where the consoles have forced developers to consider the lower spec PCs. I'm not looking forward to the new race to push the bar higher with the new console generation.
 

RicoADF

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Strazdas said:
I can understand a situation when you have to travel for work or carry information more complex than tablet can handle. but like i said, that is a rare situation. I done the mistake buying a laptop for studies. in 6 years of studies i have brought the laptop over a total of 4 times. waste of money is what it was.
Laptops can play games fine, but you pay twice the price for same power in GPU. That wasnt the discussion though. the discussion was that we suggested the person to spend 20 dollars and buy some RAM since he thought his current RAM was not enough.

Granted i dont go to many LAN parties, but im yet to see where someone brings TWO monitors. you must have been a star :p
4 times in 6 years? Most of my laptops have lasted 4+, what happened if I may ask?

Your correct about the price, it comes down to weather the portability is worth it to you, in my case it is.
True ram was the point at hand, however there's only so much you can add before your just wasting cash, for now atleast 8GB is more than enough.

It was fun for the first hr or so, until more people came and we needed more space on the tables, so one had to be disconnected. I ended up going with laptop after a few LAN games and figured that carting around my tower was both anoying and a risk I wasn't willing to take. $1000 (laptop was on sale) was worth the price considering it saves me bringing a desktop around with a $900 GPU.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Bullocks as they barely use much ram now.I dunno why they bother there last 2 games were utter shit.....
 

Dragonbums

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Strazdas said:
in 6 years of studies i have brought the laptop over a total of 4 times. waste of money is what it was.
Holy fuck dude. What kind of laptop did you get? I had an HP laptop that lasted me 6 years before getting a new one this Christmas and giving it to my mom. It still works.
 

Lightknight

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Well, if it's a limiting factor then hopefully they can work with the RAM they get and rely on a compelling story or game mechanic rather than the things that generally demand more RAM. Games are already graphically impressive. I was quite surprised with all the stuff we crammed in the ol' 512MB consoles even up until now. I understand that Cytek really defined itself with bleeding edge visual technology but the availability of pretty games has skyrocketed since Crysis 1 and pretty soon games won't be able to rely on purely being eye candy for a consumer base large enough to support them.
 

Lunar Templar

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While I'm sure all that technical stuff is true ....

I'm still inclined to roll my eyes at Cyrtec, cause really, they're just gonna use all that extra power to make they're next shining example of mediocrity 'pretty'.

Yes, I'm aware of Far Cry 3, no, I don't think the next one will be up to the same level.
 

Evonisia

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SonOfVoorhees said:
More is better. But they Crytek has always been about the graphics first. Which is why Crysis 2 and 3 wernt that good. Though i do hear Crysis 1 is so much better? Gears had great graphics, GTA5, Skyrim and FC3 look great on the 360.
Crysis 1 gameplay wise was basically like FarCry 1, albeit with much worse vehicle sections (amazingly). So good and reasonably fun, but not outstanding or anything.

I do see Crytek's complaining as the anomalous result. Sure Crytek can push against this boundary, but most developers probably won't... at least not anywhere near as quickly as Crytek will.
 

Strazdas

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archiebawled said:
Strazdas said:
It would be pointless to try running the consoles in high resolution due to their weak GPU but they seem to not able to do decent desolutions anyway. the thing is, noone her was speaking about resolution. we spoke about regular RAM benefits. Crytek didnt say it because they wanted higher resolution, they said it because they ran out of memory.
They didn't say why they ran into memory issues though - I wouldn't be surprised if they tried quite a few resolution/framerate/detail combinations. Since we don't know the exact circumstances of when they were running into memory issues, it's perfectly possible that they ran into memory issues at 1080p/60fps (with some effects turned off I would assume, otherwise hitting 60fps would be difficult).
Yes, they very likely tried many combinations in their testing. Doubt anything above 1080p though because noone on consoles seems to try that. Well, if you run into issues with basic standard on console launch, what will happen couple years into its lifecycle you think?

BrotherRool said:
As a PC gaming forum it's very natural to think my situation is rare, but actually I'm pretty sure I'm in the majority if you also include the people who don't know they can/aren't technically able to upgrade. I'm sure that I have way more friends with laptops than friends with computers, and of my friends with computers I best most of them wouldn't know how to upgrade it.

Everyone round here thinks that everyone has super awesome game crunching machines, but the majority of Steam users (not PC owners, this is active PC gamers) don't. The lack of a graphics race is really awesome for all of those people, less so when games focus on the high end.

Because 'play it on medium settings' doesn't work a lot of the time. I currently own a lot of games that I can't play on low settings and we've had plenty of ridiculous cases recently of games asking for 6GB RAM minimum (even when it can run on less). The games where playing on lower settings is easy are often the games whose developers haven't been pushing for pie-in-the-sky look-at-the-pixels Titanesque specs or whatever.

It's been very nice to be in a situation where the consoles have forced developers to consider the lower spec PCs. I'm not looking forward to the new race to push the bar higher with the new console generation.
PC gaming forum? Since when is this PC gaming forum? While amount of PC gamers have been increasing everywhere, here included, this is hardly PC gaming forum. what with most of the news being about consoles and all.

Laptops as portable web computers are being moved into obsolesence by tablets and the only audience left is those that need portability AND power no matter the costs. Its a receding market. those that need only power buy desktops because its half the price. those that need only portability buy tablets.

I think we have been over this of why Steam survey is skewed havent we? steam survey looks at all hardware. this means that for example for me it surveys: GTX 760, 8600M GT, two integrated intel graphic cards. looking at average - thats 3 out of 4 using very old hardware. looking at reality - my integrated intel ones are never utilized and my laptop GPU isnt gaming but steam is still installed on that computer. In reality 95% of gaming is done on the 760, but survey thinks its only 25%.

You can play new games on low on 6 year old GPUs and still gave them look better than consoles when it comes to graphics. The reason you cant run it is because you are running on a laptop, and an old one too (judging from what you told us), and old laptop GPUs are weak.

It may be nice for you, but for people who saw the AI degrade, functions being taken off because with limited ahrdware the developers decided to sacrifice gameplay for graphics since the consoles can only process so much, it hasnt been that nice.

As for COD asking 6 GB ram minimum when in reality using 2.6 GB the explanation is simple - the developers were complete morons designing that game. its so full of memory leaks and GPU spikes its amazing how it didnt sink the franchise.

RicoADF said:
4 times in 6 years? Most of my laptops have lasted 4+, what happened if I may ask?
Dragonbums said:
Holy fuck dude. What kind of laptop did you get? I had an HP laptop that lasted me 6 years before getting a new one this Christmas and giving it to my mom. It still works.
Yeah, i think you misunderstood me. That 6 year old laptop is still working and in use. What i meant is i only had to bring it 4 times total somewhere for my studies because the classes either had desktops there or a computer was not needed.
Its true that at one point i had to solder my monitor wires manually because flipping the lid up and down have broken them (yeah, those 0.1mm wires are really a paint to solder together, but larger pain was finding which ones broke out of the few hundred that were there.). And there also was the time when my MOBO was changed by warranty, but they did this to all laptops of this model since HP has made error manufacturing. But hey its still good for opening a game map on the side or letting it do some video encoding overnight :p

RicoADF said:
Your correct about the price, it comes down to weather the portability is worth it to you, in my case it is.
True ram was the point at hand, however there's only so much you can add before your just wasting cash, for now atleast 8GB is more than enough.

It was fun for the first hr or so, until more people came and we needed more space on the tables, so one had to be disconnected. I ended up going with laptop after a few LAN games and figured that carting around my tower was both anoying and a risk I wasn't willing to take. $1000 (laptop was on sale) was worth the price considering it saves me bringing a desktop around with a $900 GPU.
The person said that he only has 4 GB therefore didnt want games to utilize 8 GB consoles had. we told him he can just upgrade to 8 GB cheaply. 8 GB is enough for regualar gamer, I myself would like to have 16 GB instead (albeit only run on 8 atm) but i usually do more than regular users.
Also if you have a lot of RAM to spare you can play with DIMM drives.

900 dollar GPU? You were running a Titan? I hope you needed it and it wasnt just becuase of the name. because unless you specifically need this massive VRAM 780TI is otherwise identical.

Evonisia said:
Crysis 1 gameplay wise was basically like FarCry 1, albeit with much worse vehicle sections (amazingly). So good and reasonably fun, but not outstanding or anything.
no....
Crysis gamepaly wise was much more than FC1. FC1 was a straight shooter and a good one at that (FC2 was arse and i havent played FC3). Crysis on the other hand had multiple tactics and methods (you could play almost whole game in sneaking past enemies) as well as gameplay changes (suit powers). Its a spiritual sucessor to FC1, but its not the same.