well, with regards to killing Death, i think that while it is crazy that Kratos does kill a bunch of Greek gods, at least Greek gods aren't as critical to the very structure of existence as Death is, and they also address the slaying of Greek gods in the second game when Athena tells Kratos that killing Zeus will screw up everything. Also, i just think Kratos is over 9,000 times cooler than Dante is, and i don't know why exactly, but when he does ridiculous things like almost murder Zeus with an 8-foot blade, it just works way better for him than when Dante slices Death in two with his own scythe. Its kind of like when someone tells a really funny joke, and then some random douchebag tries to leech the funniness by telling a slightly different form of the same joke, but just epicly fails and only gets pure silence as a response from the listening crowd.Lolth17 said:
Dante's Inferno
- Thread starter RickRoll
- Start date
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So what if it's a God of War style game, the X-box 360 hasn't had the privilege of having the God of War games. Besides, if having a God of War game was such anathema to you - why did you buy it to start off with? Especially if you'd already played the demo and didn't like it.
I can't say that I had any complaints with killing Death, I thought the fight was a lot of fun. Plus hearing him begging for mercy was kind of funny in my opinion.
Of course the story isn't going to be up to much, if you read the poem - it wouldn't actually make a very good game. We're talking "Press Y to listen to Virgil musing" territory here. The game only really came about because of the setting and the vivid descriptions of the demons. (Which were pretty frightening back when the poem was first penned, but now seem trope-a-licious by today's standards.)
Though to answer one of your questions on how Dante could die if he were already in Hell: The answer is relatively simple - Dante was already dead the minute the Saracen put the knife in his back. But in Hell, according to the poem - when you die, you get made anew to be tortured all over again.
While Dante's Inferno might not be the best game since the hook and wheel - it's certainly better than having than Big Rigs Racing.
I can't say that I had any complaints with killing Death, I thought the fight was a lot of fun. Plus hearing him begging for mercy was kind of funny in my opinion.
Of course the story isn't going to be up to much, if you read the poem - it wouldn't actually make a very good game. We're talking "Press Y to listen to Virgil musing" territory here. The game only really came about because of the setting and the vivid descriptions of the demons. (Which were pretty frightening back when the poem was first penned, but now seem trope-a-licious by today's standards.)
Though to answer one of your questions on how Dante could die if he were already in Hell: The answer is relatively simple - Dante was already dead the minute the Saracen put the knife in his back. But in Hell, according to the poem - when you die, you get made anew to be tortured all over again.
While Dante's Inferno might not be the best game since the hook and wheel - it's certainly better than having than Big Rigs Racing.
How original, someone's bashing DI.
Game too unoriginal for you? Too bad, real originality is hard to come by since almost everything's been tried before.
Furious about DI's gameplay being a rip-off? Got news for you... GoW is a rip-off as well.
Crying about the storyline? Guess what - a 100% adaption of the poem would not have worked as a video game. Of course they had to cut up most of it. You want the original? Go read it. (In doing so, you might also learn that Lust and Gluttony are not the first two circles of hell.)
Not satisfied with the level design? Tough cookies. Become a programmer and prove to us that you can do better... until then you are not an authority on the subject.
Aspects of the game intolerant of other religions in your opinion? Oh dear. Let me make it simple for you: It is a game depicting a CHRISTIAN version of hell, and the poem it's loosely based on was written hundreds of years ago.
And your gripe about killing Death? Seriously. IT'S A VIDEO GAME. If you rent or buy a hack-and-slasher and are not stoked by the fact that it opens with something this awesome (and nonsensical) you should think about looking into other genres. I know I sure as hell didn't play DI for its realism.
If you feel the need to rant and rave, find yourself an abandoned warehouse, go there and scream your lungs out.
Game too unoriginal for you? Too bad, real originality is hard to come by since almost everything's been tried before.
Furious about DI's gameplay being a rip-off? Got news for you... GoW is a rip-off as well.
Crying about the storyline? Guess what - a 100% adaption of the poem would not have worked as a video game. Of course they had to cut up most of it. You want the original? Go read it. (In doing so, you might also learn that Lust and Gluttony are not the first two circles of hell.)
Not satisfied with the level design? Tough cookies. Become a programmer and prove to us that you can do better... until then you are not an authority on the subject.
Aspects of the game intolerant of other religions in your opinion? Oh dear. Let me make it simple for you: It is a game depicting a CHRISTIAN version of hell, and the poem it's loosely based on was written hundreds of years ago.
And your gripe about killing Death? Seriously. IT'S A VIDEO GAME. If you rent or buy a hack-and-slasher and are not stoked by the fact that it opens with something this awesome (and nonsensical) you should think about looking into other genres. I know I sure as hell didn't play DI for its realism.
If you feel the need to rant and rave, find yourself an abandoned warehouse, go there and scream your lungs out.
I tried reading this, I did. Honestly. Paragraph next time, please :x
Dantes Inferno was fun. I like having fun. I wasn't too picky about how the levels were designed, because I like hack n slash zip-zop-boopity-bops. The combat wasn't -clean-, but it was still pretty damn entertaining. This is why you borrow games off friends :3
Thanks
Dantes Inferno was fun. I like having fun. I wasn't too picky about how the levels were designed, because I like hack n slash zip-zop-boopity-bops. The combat wasn't -clean-, but it was still pretty damn entertaining. This is why you borrow games off friends :3
You have never failed to make me giggle when you post.LordNue said:
Thanks
Ok there's a difference between God of War and Dantes Inferno.
1. Kratos follows Greek mythology. In Greek mythology, gods waged war and killed each other all the time. Getting someone to do their dirty work was also god-like business. That's why God of War worked. It was understandable why Kratos was pissed off at the gods but at the same time would still do as they said. Also, Kratos IS THE SON OF ZUES, hence why he's able to kill gods.
Dante on the other hand, travels through 9 Circles of Hell to rescue a girl he cheated on. And you can say 'it's because he loves her that he travels through the 9 circles to save her idiot' we'll if he loved her THAT much he wouldn't have cheated on her, even if he was told his sins would be forgiven for doing gods work. Also, Rick makes a valid point about the whole 'killing Death' thing. Yes it's true that people don't play games for realism and constancy but that's what separates a good game from a bad one. You've just killed the very personification of Death. How the hell is anything else meant to stand a chance against you?
2. Yes, God of War did not invent the Beat 'em Up genre, Devil May Cry did, but God of War makes it its own succesfully, where as anyone whose played God of War can see Dantes Inferno rips off God of War.
3. If the people making this game knew from the begining that the original text didn't actually have enough depth to make it a game, and were actually just making a game because the demons described sound cool, why in the HELL wouldn't they work on making a better story? It could have had the most ground breaking graphics but at the end of the day a weak story is a weak story.
There's more but this post is long enough haha. End of the day: God of War and Dante's Inferno are 2 completly different game in the same genre. While both aren't bad, one is a lot better than the other because extra effort was put in and it's noticable.
1. Kratos follows Greek mythology. In Greek mythology, gods waged war and killed each other all the time. Getting someone to do their dirty work was also god-like business. That's why God of War worked. It was understandable why Kratos was pissed off at the gods but at the same time would still do as they said. Also, Kratos IS THE SON OF ZUES, hence why he's able to kill gods.
Dante on the other hand, travels through 9 Circles of Hell to rescue a girl he cheated on. And you can say 'it's because he loves her that he travels through the 9 circles to save her idiot' we'll if he loved her THAT much he wouldn't have cheated on her, even if he was told his sins would be forgiven for doing gods work. Also, Rick makes a valid point about the whole 'killing Death' thing. Yes it's true that people don't play games for realism and constancy but that's what separates a good game from a bad one. You've just killed the very personification of Death. How the hell is anything else meant to stand a chance against you?
2. Yes, God of War did not invent the Beat 'em Up genre, Devil May Cry did, but God of War makes it its own succesfully, where as anyone whose played God of War can see Dantes Inferno rips off God of War.
3. If the people making this game knew from the begining that the original text didn't actually have enough depth to make it a game, and were actually just making a game because the demons described sound cool, why in the HELL wouldn't they work on making a better story? It could have had the most ground breaking graphics but at the end of the day a weak story is a weak story.
There's more but this post is long enough haha. End of the day: God of War and Dante's Inferno are 2 completly different game in the same genre. While both aren't bad, one is a lot better than the other because extra effort was put in and it's noticable.
In my opinion, the level design is great. Even though certain structures are overused, there is enough difference between the circles designwise, and it certainly gives of a hellish feeling. while dante himself lacks depth as a character i prefer him designwise to Kratos cardboard-cutout babarian body.
And like many people mentioned, it's not as if GoW was the first game with that kind of fighting style, might as well call it a Devil may Cry-ripoff.
Regarding the scene where Dante kills Death:
[http://img684.imageshack.us/i/catgirls.gif/]
And like many people mentioned, it's not as if GoW was the first game with that kind of fighting style, might as well call it a Devil may Cry-ripoff.
Regarding the scene where Dante kills Death:
I think it would be nice to have a God of War style game available on the 360, but one that is just stylized like it, not a blatant rip off of it. Dante's Inferno's only true original merit that it adds to the combat is the addition of that cross attack thing, which is kind of cool at first, but starts to get kinda of dull to use as the game progresses.Gunner 51 said:So what if it's a God of War style game, the X-box 360 hasn't had the privilege of having the God of War games. Besides, if having a God of War game was such anathema to you - why did you buy it to start off with? Especially if you'd already played the demo and didn't like it.
I can't say that I had any complaints with killing Death, I thought the fight was a lot of fun. Plus hearing him begging for mercy was kind of funny in my opinion.
Of course the story isn't going to be up to much, if you read the poem - it wouldn't actually make a very good game. We're talking "Press Y to listen to Virgil musing" territory here. The game only really came about because of the setting and the vivid descriptions of the demons. (Which were pretty frightening back when the poem was first penned, but now seem trope-a-licious by today's standards.)
Though to answer one of your questions on how Dante could die if he were already in Hell: The answer is relatively simple - Dante was already dead the minute the Saracen put the knife in his back. But in Hell, according to the poem - when you die, you get made anew to be tortured all over again.
While Dante's Inferno might not be the best game since the hook and wheel - it's certainly better than having than Big Rigs Racing.
I'm not against games borrowing from other games or just being similar in other ways, but add something friggin' new to the mix! for example, the FPS's Half-Life 2, Bioshock, Fallout 3, and Halo all have the same basic layout of the player being some dude with a gun in the first person perspective that goes around shooting at guys and has the ability to crouch and jump and hold multiple weapons. However, each game not only just feels different and controls differently and has very different weaponry, but they also have other really interesting unique aspects:
Half-Life 2 has the gravity gun, great level design with well-placed enemies that are varied and unique from one another, amazing physics, and a simply incredible storyline.
Bioshock also has a simply incredible storyline, plasmids/gene tonics, a level design that has each level be a sort of living, breathing area with respawning enemies and tons of interesting ways to trick and kill them, and it of course has the awesome big daddies and creepy little sisters.
Fallout 3 is pretty much the first legitimate free-roaming FPS, it has pretty damn varied character customization and specialization, lots interesting characters to talk to, a great environment to explore and get lost in, and multiple different endings and choices.
Halo had a cool storyline in, well, just the first game IMO, but it also had the great implementation of meleeing, it put in duel wielding and boarding in the second and third game, it allowed players to throw grenades without switching weapons, it has awesome vehicles to drive, and really smart and challenging enemies to fight that each hold clear class distinctions.
Anyways, my point is that pretty much the only thing DI added to the GoW equation was the addition of the cross move and a new setting for the game to take place in, which was sadly half-ass designed. Not only that, but it subtracted the fluid and powerful feel that Kratos' blades of chaos had and instead put a sub-par mimicry of it instead.
Btw, i never bought DI; I only rented the piece of crap, because i just wanted to play it to prove to myself just how bad I knew it would be.
While I've not played the game (just the demo) I can really understand what RickRoll is saying. He raises some good points, not sure why people are hating on him like he's being retarded. I thought the killing Death thing in the demo was really retarded too. And yea Heresy as a ring of hell? What? Granted, I'm sure it was in the original poem or whatever but that doesn't make it a good or legitimate thing.
As far as being a God of War ripoff, well I'm sure it is in many many ways but I don't think that in itself should detract from the game, except that it's not going to wow you with originality in the gameplay. But people moaned about BioShock 2 being "more of the same" and yet it was super duper awesome even if Rapture was the same old place.
As far as being a God of War ripoff, well I'm sure it is in many many ways but I don't think that in itself should detract from the game, except that it's not going to wow you with originality in the gameplay. But people moaned about BioShock 2 being "more of the same" and yet it was super duper awesome even if Rapture was the same old place.
well, i honestly think that if Visceral Games simply had to make a mindless hack-and-slash clone of GoW, they shouldn't have done it to Dante's Inferno.Sonicron said:
I think that a far more fascinating and original and waaaaay more memorable and fun approach would have been to make the game actually fucking scary and make the main character into a normal human friggin' being who is trying to survive a simply terrifying and original version Hell, not just some dull, stereotypical fire and brimstone crapfest.
In fact, i'd go as far as saying that the game should have been a survival horror mixed with an rpg somewhat reminiscent of Mass Effect, but not a blatant rip-off like this game is to GoW.
I wouldn't be bitching nearly as much about the game if it just hadn't been an adaptation of the Divine Comedy. Why couldn't it have been just some original piece of work that didn't try to insultingly emulate one of the greatest works of literature ever created. You don't see Michael Bay trying to make his own original take on Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment starring Drake from Degrassi and Jamie Spears.
It was disappointing, but I give points for taking a poem like Dante's Inferno and attempting to make a game out of it.
Wow thank you so much for finally being someone here who agrees with me. Even though you did disagree, however, with my complaint of its originality with regards to combat, at least you stated your opinion respectfully and didn't start bashing my opinion like a bunch of these other jerk-offs have been. Again, I thank you.Wolfram01 said:
Yeah... No. First of all, Kratos does that. Atleast Dante is trying to save someone from ETERNAL DAMNATION because of his mistakes. His chest has a lovely mural SEWN ONTO IT displaying his sins/sorrows in the shape of a cross in a hope of repentance. He stepped into hell itself, a place he feared going to so much that he killed the grim reaper to escape from, all to save the woman he loved, knowing full well that horrors ingrained in the mind of every Christian back then awaited him and that death there either meant damnation or being erased from existance. In fact, his love is all he has left since according to death, he is an abomination to God because he did things he was told pleased Him. He is a sinner in the depths of Hell, fighting for the sake of an innocent he caused to fall. He's just as much a demon as the enemies he fights, but he knows this, and he's trying to change. This isn't just a rescue mission nor is it just a hero's journey, it's a story about of a brutal warrior who is tired of war seeking redemption for his many failures by saving the only good thing he's ever known.RickRoll said:
Kratos on the other hand is selfish and arrogant. He fights his way out of death because he refuses to let his life end. He blames everyone else for his own sins. His mark of sin was forced on him, and because of that he wants to get rid of his bad memories, refusing to face the truth. He's monsterous and brutal, even after he should have learned his lesson. He refuses all forms of help, as he refuses to show weakness. Unlike Dante, his journey isn't really his. He obeys just about anyone as long as they promise him the power to get REVENGE. He's not getting vengenance for his dead family, he's getting even with the people who harmed him through them. He's not afraid of anything either, meaning that he never really has to conquer his fears to step forward (unlike Dante). Kratos knows full well that he is hated by those who created him, and rather than trying to change to get them to accept him, he instead hates them back. He doesn't listen to anyone's advice either, unless they're offering something, and this leads to several instances where he ends up hurting himself (and then he blames it on the gods). Kratos' journey is all about making him feel better.
Now, which one is deeper again?
As for the original post, I'm tired of people taking ripoff as meaning inferior automatically. Look at two really good games that if you disect them are ripping off other things.
Portal: Hm? Where have I heard of a calm, synthetic sounding, glowing eyed AI going crazy and trying to kill someone in an isolated facility, Dave? Or another question may be where did I see a game that takes place as someone waking up in a place they don't recognize, finding a weapon, and fighting to escape?
How about Shadow of the Colossus (oh, you knew this was coming if you've seen me around here before)? Damsel in distress, check. Horseback riding, sword wielding, trained in archery, irresponsible youth as a hero, check. Listening to an omnipotent voice, check. Magical sword is the only thing able to kill enemy, you know it. Huge bosses where you have to hit a weak point, yep.
Yet both of these games put a new spin on things and made things work. I still play both of them to this day and I still find something fun about them each time.
Now, not all ripoffs are good, even if they do find the right game. Dante's Inferno happens to work, but allow me to tell you of a game that does ripoffing wrong.
Chaos Legion is supposedly like Devil May Cry, according to the box. Now the plot of DMC isn't going to win any awards, but it's atleast coherent (Devils trying to come back, Dante stops them just before the apocalypse. But most of all the cutscenes seem to happen at the appropriate places and show where things are headed). Chaos Legion has cutscenes that I swear were put in because they were told they need cutscenes. One section introduces a woman who cuts her ponytail for no apparent reason... on a cliffside... when you were just standing in a city, killing some strange demon statue... thing... It makes no sense even when put in context. The combat relies on you knowing exactly what enemies would be on the map, since you have to kill all of them and some of them are immune to all but one of your summoned spirits (which you have to use in regular combat. Oh, and they look exactly like all the cannon fodder you have to kill, so good luck telling who's who). Your movelist is embarassingly short, and your sword sometimes seems to do nothing at all. Enemies are often faster than you, and its hard to tell them telegraphing their attack from their death. The environments are all grey and stone. Your main enemy is... someone who wants to do... something. You get maybe 1 or two sentences per cutscene, and it's impossible to tell if you're playing as the good guy or the bad guy since you're basically commiting genocide of demons so that you'll be the only one with demons left. Nothing but the character design on this game is good, and it's still not all redemning enough.
Okay, let me address your points.RickRoll said:
First of all, the GoW similiarity has been addressed so many times it's just a given. Frankly, I never played GoW, so I really didn't have any beefs with that. If anything, since I enjoyed Dante's Inferno, if GoW does it better, I now really want to try that game.
I agree with your point that the game had a lot of variety at the start, but then seemed to suffer a lack of creativity as one further progresses. That's something I addressed in a review I did in User Reviews. It was one of the negatives of the game for me. However, I think the game stayed pretty diverse until after Heresy, with Fraud being the least enjoyable level (Which was a shame, as it had so much potential).
Your next points confuse me somewhat. You found Fraud, Greed, and Treachery to overlap and Violence and Anger to overlap. Well, that's what it was like in the poem, and it makes an interesting point about how sin leads to sin. Why do people defraud others of their money? Greed. That's why Greed is one of the Seven Deadly Sins, it leads to worse sins. And isn't Treachery (The betrayal of others), really like a worse form of fraud? You lied and broke your promise, so they are pretty related there. Anger is often a cause of violence, so it makes sense for them to overlap.
One of your points really is hard to understand, and that's your beef with Heresy being a ring because that's intolerant of other religions. Well, Dante wrote the Divine Comedy from the perspective of a Catholic living in 1300s Italy, so of course he's not going to pull any punches when it comes to other religions. Additionally, Heresy was one of the 9 circles in the original poem. The developers tried to make the game like the poem in order to assuage the literary fanboys, but now that they did use some material from the poem, others are getting pissed that it's "offensive"? The Divine Comedy is all about the Christian afterlife! Of course other religions are going to be seen as heresies! Heresy was a heavy accusation in 1300s Europe, so it makes sense that Dante would address it.
You know, honestly, if the developers had wanted, they could have really offended the Muslim community, as in the original poem, Dante placed Muhammad the prophet in the circle of Fraud, with the Sowers of Discord, where the damned are sliced in halves only to regenerate and be halved again. Really, there wasn't any real attack on other religions in the game (yes, one of the damned was there because he was atheist, but that goes with the message of the poem).
You also say that Dante was a one-sided character, which I disagree with. I thought that one of the major focuses of the game was on Dante's past compared to his present. He basically was a man after redemption, after having committed so many atrocities. He showed much emotion I thought.
Finally, your issue with the fight against Death. Well, that's a pretty good transition from Earth to Hell, don't you think, and besides...
In the end, Dante finds out he was dead the entire time, which means it was his soul fighting in Hell, not his physical body and soul.
Besides, why can't a game kinda screw with reality? Hell, if Mario can be an Italian plumber that fights walking mushrooms and flying turtles, why can't Dante fight Death and take his scythe?
I only played the demo and haven't played GoW but it seemed ok for it's genre to me.
Nothing seemed god awful or that great (I am not a fan of this genre at all), everything was just as I expected.
You talk like GoW is the first game of it's kind, I believe it isn't even close to being first, you could argue streets of rage and golden axe was (near) the start or a more comparative game is DMC.
If your attacking this game for being like GoW, then attack GoW for being like DMC.
Also, user reviews?
Nothing seemed god awful or that great (I am not a fan of this genre at all), everything was just as I expected.
You talk like GoW is the first game of it's kind, I believe it isn't even close to being first, you could argue streets of rage and golden axe was (near) the start or a more comparative game is DMC.
If your attacking this game for being like GoW, then attack GoW for being like DMC.
Also, user reviews?
wow, i think you put more deep content in that one paragraph that you described Dante in than there was in the entire game. A huge chunk of what you wrote on him was pretty much just inferences from stuff that is just hinted at vaguely in the game. The game is just a cut and paste Hero's Journey at its most bare bones; this one just happens to be in a Hell that is an uninspired adaptation of the Divine Comedy. I do believe all the stuff you said about Dante trying to redeem himself and all that crap, but the problem is that there is next to no real character development throughout the game; pretty much the only plot points in the game are just quickly mentioned in the games brief cinematics where Dante just says some predictable line about how he's going to right all the wrongs he did and save his love, and they pretty much just re-hash the same friggin' line for ever single line of dialogue he has in the game. Dante really doesn't interact with anyone other than his brief little quips with Lucifer and Beatrice, and Virgil only blabbers random stuff to him occasionally, but Dante only engages him in conversation two in the game briefly. This all works to just make Dante seem like an incredibly dull, dull, duuuullllll action hero that i honestly could not give two shits about, because I've seen his lame ass character done 100 times before in 100 different stories.Delock said:
Now, I will admit that the plot of GoW is quite shallow and Kratos is a considerably bigger asshole than Dante, but that's why he's so much better. I like how Kratos really doesn't give a fuck about anything, EXCEPT his family, which he is trying to redeem, idiot. Anyways, Kratos' assholeness is just so....so awesome! I love how he just goes around doing whatever the fuck he wants to whomever the fuck he wants all the time; i can buy that and respect that. Now when Dante does the same thing, it just seems like a lame copycat of Kratos, but a lame copycat of Kratos that is trying to paint himself in a supposedly "good" light by constantly bitching about his wife "BEATRICE!!!" and saying overly dramatic, cheesy lines about redemption and all that boring shit.
Oh, and one more thing, you didn't address why exactly DI works; you explained Portal and Shadow of Colossus just fine, but you just oddly forgot to explain what exactly DI adds that makes it so supposedly "great." That leads me to believe you cannot think of any legitimate reasons why. Please, I challenge you to prove me wrong: explain what is so great and original about this game's storyline and/or gameplay?
Okay, i'm too tired countering entire people's differing opinions, so i'll just say that i respect what you said with everything except for the ring overlapping and Heresy. I think that the developers should have completely made the game into their own original creation that was only merely inspired by the Divine Comedy, not a crappy copy and past of it.presidentjlh said:
The 9 rings worked in the poem, sure, but in a game, levels have to be diverse and varied. I think that basing hell off of the 7 deadly sins instead would have been WAY better. There is no overlap with Sloth, Gluttony, Greed, Vanity, Wrath, Lust, or Envy. Each of the punishments should've been completely unique and related to the realm that they corresponded to.
Now for Heresy, I believe that its inclusion in the game starts to cause it to lean towards the Bible Games side of design by unintentionally preaching lame religious doctrine and how if you're not a Christian, you're going to hell for your twisted Pagan beliefs. It is just really unnecessary and causes me to just feel contempt for the game's version of God, and truly bad for the unfortunate Hindus and Muslims and so on that are unfairly trapped in that realm.