Dark Souls 2, PVP

cthulhuspawn82

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Ishal said:
This game, far as we know, is meant to be that way IF you are playing online. The entire world and everything is built around humans going hollow, and doing EVERYTHING in their power to stave off hollowing, including joining covenants like the Brotherhood of Blood to take souls, effigies, blood, or whatever they're after. Dems the breaks. It's not supposed to be "consensual" unless they're using a red soapstone, or whatever this game's equivalent is. It's called "invading" for a reason. There are tons of ways to deal with PvP'ers in DKS II, they invade on a timer just like every other phantom, plus are at 75% HP.

Don't like it? Play offline. You at least have that option, which people shouldn't turn their nose at.
I wouldn't suggest people play offline, I would just suggest they play a better game that doesn't cater to gankers. That's a much better solution as the loss of revenue may force the developers to rethink their actions in the future. More people tend to favor PvE, and telling over half you player base that "This game isnt for you" is probably a bad move. If I do play however, I'll just do like I did in Demon's Souls and disconnect when I am invaded. I understand people get annoyed at that but hey, If you don't like it, don't invade me.
 

michael87cn

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The truth is, the majority of souls players end up invading once they 'beat' the game. They get bored with killing bosses once they master them, and they want to PvP to continue enjoying the game. With how Dark Souls 1 works, invading takes a lot of time, and, I think their intention with DS2 is to reduce the time it takes to invade so that the majority can have more fun.

That said, I also am not a fan of PvP. But, I think you are pretending to know what will happen before it does. You may be able to play through areas of DS2 without being invaded. You'll just have to get the game to see...
 

Rutabaga_swe

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JohnReaper said:
I couldn't get past the two royal servants to get to the boss. Not because I couldn't kill them, but because I needed help with the bosses forcing me into human form. and 9 times out of ten I would be invaded.

Yes I couldn't progress through the game because a player put it on him self to invade in anor londo.

Now imagine that, except now you have no control of when your gonna get invaded.

What do you think?
Summoning is easy mode, you should just learn to beat Orns and Smough without help :p

That said, i'm sure there will be ways of avoiding PvP if you don't want it.
 

Ishal

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Oct 30, 2012
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cthulhuspawn82 said:
Ishal said:
This game, far as we know, is meant to be that way IF you are playing online. The entire world and everything is built around humans going hollow, and doing EVERYTHING in their power to stave off hollowing, including joining covenants like the Brotherhood of Blood to take souls, effigies, blood, or whatever they're after. Dems the breaks. It's not supposed to be "consensual" unless they're using a red soapstone, or whatever this game's equivalent is. It's called "invading" for a reason. There are tons of ways to deal with PvP'ers in DKS II, they invade on a timer just like every other phantom, plus are at 75% HP.

Don't like it? Play offline. You at least have that option, which people shouldn't turn their nose at.
I wouldn't suggest people play offline, I would just suggest they play a better game that doesn't cater to gankers. That's a much better solution as the loss of revenue may force the developers to rethink their actions in the future. More people tend to favor PvE, and telling over half you player base that "This game isnt for you" is probably a bad move. If I do play however, I'll just do like I did in Demon's Souls and disconnect when I am invaded. I understand people get annoyed at that but hey, If you don't like it, don't invade me.
FROM have a vision for what they want, they had in earlier in the series but couldn't implement it. It's not a case of alienating anyone. It's a case of creating the environment in which players experience everything. Soapstone warning messages that players can leave, NPC summons, player summons, and invasions. If you want the boons, you have to face risks. And that means possibly dealing with some asshole invader like me who has the GALL to play the game as it's meant to be played. Shucks, I'm such a terrible person. I'm a ganker.

You'd probably be better off playing totally offline, or not buying the game. Yeah. Snarkiness aside, invasions happened pretty quickly in the beta, and not just because it was a condensed time period and everyone was playing. I mean time period between invasions was pretty fast.
 

zegram33

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Oct 24, 2012
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you know what id like to see? actual, genuine consequences for invaders if they fail, I found there wasn't really any punishment for people just having a go at you.
my proposed solution: if you invade someone and they kill you, they get a pick of 1 item/weapon you have equipped, and you lose that item to them. If you D/C after losing or mid invasion, same deal.
it would mean invaders would have to be either supremely confident, or NOT use unique equipment.
maybe have a series of rings available for purchase from the dedicated "Invading" covenant, that each "lock out" one equipment slot, so if you absolutely loved one of your weapons, you could use the ring to remove it from the equipment list.


I think that would make players think twice about just randomly invading, and really hit hard at the annoying min-maxed super builds (since every time you failed an invasion, the other player would get closer to your level)

also, it would be lovely if you could trust messages from other players rather than a good half of them being traps, but I guess that's kinda the issue with marketing the game as a "super leet hardcore game", in that you also attract elitists who just want to make things hard for newcomers
 

otakon17

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Considering I'm most likely getting this for the PC, I have YET to figure out how to play offline to avoid hacking, cheating, lag-switching ***** ass invaders in Dark Souls. The fact that you can now be invaded at ANY time regardless of if you're Human/Hollow and the area boss is dead or not troubles me in that I'm not gonna be able to progress at all between people legitimately better at the game than me and assholes that use lag to backstab me from 30 paces in front of my character.

I share the OP's concerns with this. I am hoping they make a dedicated Offline/Online option since once again as far as I can tell there is no way to play offline on the PC version of Dark Souls beyond disconnecting your computer from the internet and honestly that's not a viable option.
 

Moonkrikes

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zegram33 said:
you know what id like to see? actual, genuine consequences for invaders if they fail, I found there wasn't really any punishment for people just having a go at you.
my proposed solution: if you invade someone and they kill you, they get a pick of 1 item/weapon you have equipped, and you lose that item to them. If you D/C after losing or mid invasion, same deal.
it would mean invaders would have to be either supremely confident, or NOT use unique equipment.
maybe have a series of rings available for purchase from the dedicated "Invading" covenant, that each "lock out" one equipment slot, so if you absolutely loved one of your weapons, you could use the ring to remove it from the equipment list.


I think that would make players think twice about just randomly invading, and really hit hard at the annoying min-maxed super builds (since every time you failed an invasion, the other player would get closer to your level)

also, it would be lovely if you could trust messages from other players rather than a good half of them being traps, but I guess that's kinda the issue with marketing the game as a "super leet hardcore game", in that you also attract elitists who just want to make things hard for newcomers
There are stat requirements on new equipment so players won't be able to have the best stuff at lower levels, your stats are very low and you don't have the speed from stats to help you, and there are factions in place to help with killing invaders. As others have said already have someone from the Way of Blue (who get summoned when you get invaded anyways) and a friend who is a white phantom help you kill the invader. Three players fighting 1 invader no matter what the equipment will lose.
 

irok

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Jun 6, 2012
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Hmmm , interesting, im sure this will annoy a lot of people but as a sunbro it just means I get bonus bounces while waiting on being summoned, I think we will actually have to wait and see how this pans out. Twinks are only a problem for while, once you reach high enough level should be able to deal with them anyway although it will be interesting to see if they have an answer to the hacking problem.
 

TheEvilCheese

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otakon17 said:
Considering I'm most likely getting this for the PC, I have YET to figure out how to play offline to avoid hacking, cheating, lag-switching ***** ass invaders in Dark Souls. The fact that you can now be invaded at ANY time regardless of if you're Human/Hollow and the area boss is dead or not troubles me in that I'm not gonna be able to progress at all between people legitimately better at the game than me and assholes that use lag to backstab me from 30 paces in front of my character.

I share the OP's concerns with this. I am hoping they make a dedicated Offline/Online option since once again as far as I can tell there is no way to play offline on the PC version of Dark Souls beyond disconnecting your computer from the internet and honestly that's not a viable option.
It's totally possible to play offline if you have local saving enabled (DSfix etc). Just sign out of your LIVE account. I agree it needs to be a baseline option though.

I am concerned about this because I liked the risk/reward system in dark souls so much. You go human? You get more potential friends and more potential foes. This just seems very short-sighted a change to make from my point of view. I'm still going to give DKSII the benefit of the doubt and play it, honestly I enjoy dark souls PVP as it is, but forcing people to fight is a silly idea IMO.
 

HorrendusOne

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If you don't enjoy a video game that devs put out, just don't play it and move along to another one. Problem Solved?

IMO that's what it boils down to. You can't be like o well i enjoy the pve aspect of the game... yea ok but that isn't the WHOLE game. So it goes back to if you don;t like it no one makes you play it. You usually don't look at a painting and say well I enjoy this half of the mona lisa but not the other.
 
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demoman_chaos said:
Why do people seem to forget the online is more than just players coming into your game?
I'm with you there.

People say don't play online, but it's a major part of the experience and players shouldn't be forced to fuck with their wi-fi settings just to prevent annoying people from breaking into their game.

Also totally with OP on this one. The system from the first game was fine and this will only make the experience worse.
 

StriderShinryu

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zegram33 said:
you know what id like to see? actual, genuine consequences for invaders if they fail, I found there wasn't really any punishment for people just having a go at you.
I actually agree with this. While the permanent item loss is definitely too harsh, I think there should be more consequences for a failed invasion, especially if you choose to join an invasion focused covenant.

A few quick ideas:
- A timed HP reduction (or full on standard hollowing HP reduction) so that subsequent failed invasions became more and more difficult to win.
- Massive durability damage to a random item such that to lose would eventually become very expensive and could even result in broken items if the invader wasn't careful
- A black mark with the chosen covenant where too many losses would actually cause the invader to be hunted by their own faction until they gained back the leaders favour
 

Ariseishirou

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Play offline, then. I don't know where you got the idea that it doesn't save, because it absolutely does. I played my whole first playthrough offline and it saves just fine. In Anor Londo you can summon Solaire in offline mode to help you defeat the bosses (or just do it yourself, which is what I did - it's hard but not impossible, and if you don't like hard this is the wrong franchise for you).
 

Branindain

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On the one hand, I'm inclined to agree that the old system worked. On the other hand, I guess they're spreading out the same number of invaders over a wider pool of potential invadees so maybe we won't get inundated as much. For myself, for the sake of challenge I make my first run "no wikis, no whiteys" to preserve the discovery and challenge so if there are too many invaders (and I always lose invasions because I can't account for the latency) I will just go off the grid like I did in Demon's Souls.
 

Lawnmooer

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Hmm... This is concerning news for me.

I hate DS PvP, it's a laggy mess (Making PvPers who can compensate have an edge over PvE players) and in my experience it's full of Twinks and hackers.

Then there's the fact that since I play for PvE, and specifically set up my builds for PvE, I can often be found utilizing weapons that are really not very good for PvP (Such as big strength based weapons which, while can be used in PvP, often require a lot more skill than the common dex based stuff) I'm further at a disadvantage.

I really hope there's some way of being able to opt out of online play altogether. Be it a dedicated offline mode (For PC, since when I played Dark and Demon's Souls on my PS3 I just disconnected it from the internet and it saves locally. DS on my PC however was more temperamental, with GFWL being a pain in the arse and such) or some sort of item/ring that prevents it.

I have no interest in PvP and little interest in Co-op. I don't want to be forced into one (I'm fine with co-op since it's entirely optional, you have to put a soapstone down to even be eligible to be summoned for co-op). I might be more inclined to participate in co-op if invasions weren't so horrible in my experience (Vastly better geared/skilled people 1/2 shotting me before I even know what's happening. Or someone trolling me via thrown items such as Mud Pie's to cause toxic and Lloyd's Talisman's to prevent healing while either early in the game or when in the middle of fighting something challenging)

But as it stands, I hate invasions and really don't want to have to put up with some arsehole who just wants to ruin my fun (It's bad enough in Dark Souls where the only times I'm eligible to be invaded is sometimes for Gargoyles when I'm using a build that's really bad early game and I want to summon Solaire/Lautrec or if I'm planning a sunbro build and want to beat all the bosses I can with Solaire for the medallion/token things)
 

Broderick

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May 25, 2010
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I am actually quite intrigued by the new pvp system in the game, but I can see why a lot of people would have problems with it. If the pvp system goes through, I have a couple pieces of advice and some information to tell you.

Go join the Way of Blue covenant. The Way of Blue is a covenant that is connected to the Blue Sentinel covenant(like the Darkmoon). If you are invaded while being a member of the Way of Blue, a member of the Blue Sentinels covenant will be automatically summoned to help you fight off and kill the invader. You can also summon a white phantom as well, so you should have plenty of help fighting off invaders.

One thing to note, is that many items, including armor, now have stat requirements. I am unsure how upgrading will work in this game, but from what I understand, being ganked by a person with high quality armor and weapons is unlikely. What would be interesting, is if the stat requirement for a weapon increased as you "level" the weapon up. This would force people into leveling their stats to keep up with the weapons stat requirements, thus killing the chance of ganking under geared players(if the pvp invasion system works roughly the same way as in Dark Souls).

There are now several mechanics in place to prevent people from "turtling" as well. From what I understand, there is now a move in the game, which looks a bit like a slap or backhand that helps break the guard of a shield. Also, if you run out of stamina while blocking, you will be knocked down on your back end in a stance that allows the aggressor to use a riposte. Keeping this in mind, managing your stamina will be paramount to succeeding both in pve and pvp, even more so than in the original game.

If you play a spell caster, there are now items you can use to replenish your spell charges. This is great news, but I can see it being abused if the game was hacked.

The game is now on a dedicated server as well, so lag will be substantially reduced.

Last bit of info, there is always going offline. I know the suggestion almost sounds like an insult to some people, but the option is there if you really do not like pvp and just want a pve experience. Know that the game was designed this way on purpose though; invasions fit in the lore and are an important part of the game. You do not have to like the design decision, but remember it was in the developers vision.

If you(or anyone else in this thread) ends up playing Dark Souls 2, I hope to see you all there! Whether we kill or help each other, let us all have fun in the strange new world we will be sharing.
 

Festus Moonbear

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Feb 20, 2013
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The DS2 director Tanimura said in an interview way back in September,

"There are many players who do not like invasions. We can't just tell them 'then don't play the game!' We have actually paid very close attention to this view and have included a method besides being hollow to prevent invasions."

FromSoftware are not insane; they would not make a Dark Souls game that forces PvP constantly when in the previous Souls games it was optional and many, many people don't like PvP at all yet love the Souls games. They don't want to lose half their customers just to please a few hardcore PvPers. Don't worry, O singleplayers. This game will not exclude you. Just because some obtuse fans have a "then don't play it" attitude towards others who don't play the way they do, doesn't mean the actual developers have that attitude.

Source: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/693331-dark-souls-ii/67311538 (forum translations of Japanese interviews.)
 

Dandark

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Im kinda okay with always being able to be invaded if they fix the PvP. It sounds like lag and hacking/modding will be fixed by dedicated servers somewhat so now all they need to do is find a way to prevent twinks from being complete and total douchebags.

Also adding consequences to failing an invasion would be good. When I played Dark souls and invaded I would lose nothing for failing but if I was invaded then I could lose soft humanity and human status. It just seemed kinda unfair that invaders have no risk though the fact it even more stacked against them now may make it a bit much to add a penalty for failing.
 

Auberon

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I have no problem with this scenario, as you should know how to play if you're up to Biggie and Smalls.

But if Dark Souls 2 has UNLIMITED invasions, I seriously doubt I can survive. Unless From somehow prevents twinks invading straight out of chargen when you lack even basic weapons.
 

Edl01

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Digi7 said:
In regards to the minmaxing, perhaps the gear you are using and what level it is will factor into the level range you can invade as well?

I'm really looking forward to DS2 and am excited about these new changes. Souls PvP is my jam and it sounds like a far more stable and interesting experience.
They're doing that. Gear now has stat requirements that are in place specifically to stop players in high level gear from invading newer players.