Dark Souls 3 - The good, the bad, and the lazy

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Having now played it several times through, I thought I'd give some more conclusive thoughts on Dark Souls III.

The good:

- Parrying and Estus are back to single speed (at least that's how it seems), which is welcome. Granted, I don't think breaking a system that wasn't broken to begin with and then fixing it again should be congratulated, but it's still a positive
- The level design feels much more logical, alive and real than the endless blank corridors of Dark Souls II. Lothric feels much more like a connected, real place than magical sky elevators.
- The music is phenomenal, as always
- Obviously the bosses are much more memorable this time than DS2's cavalcade of dudes in armor

The bad:

- Poise, or rather the lack of such. I can have the most poise possible in the entire game, and still get stunlocked by fucking rats. What is up with this system? Is there something I'm missing here? One of the best things about rolling a tank build in DS2 was to watch the small enemies helplessly chip away at you as you reel up your Big Fucking Sword. Now it's just dodge, dodge, dodge.
- Power stancing gone. What the hell Fromsoft? Perhaps the most novel and fun gameplay mechanic you introduced in DS2, and you replace it with a selection of a few pair weapons? That's a paddlin'.
- Some bosses are really dependent on RNG, Aldritch first and foremost. If your DPS isn't high enough, and he decides to spam his fucking arrow attack, good luck running endlessly around the arena.
- The story and lore. While not exactly bad, I found it much less engaging and interesting than either of the previous installments. While DS2 was underwhelming, its ending at least left me with a feeling of "Um, I think I need to go back and check some more", whereas DS3 just left me with "Okay, I linked the fire again, big whoop". Even after reaching the "bad" ending, I was left with the feeling that this narrative framework has run its course.
- Fromsoft really needs a new cameraman for their big monster fights. Would it kill them to have the camera pan out just a little when the massive monster lands on your face? The camera is perhaps the thing that make the Nameless King the hardest fight in the game.

And the lazy:

- The amount of rehashing and callbacks to especially Dark Souls 1. This game just went overboard with it, and it feels more like pure fanservice instead of something meaningful. Bringing back Onionbro, recycling areas not only from DS1 but from Dark Souls 3 itself, including Smough's, Ornstein's, Artorias', Tarkus', Dusk's, Solaire's and more characters' armor sets in the game, having the player discover the Daughter of Chaos and Elizabeth, referencing names and places like Astora, Izalith, Oolacile, Seath, Quelana and Logan and so on. It goes from "Hey, that's cool, I remember that!" to "Yeah... another thing I remember... are you just trying to be Dark Souls again?"
- The rehashing continues in part in the bosses: Hey, another horde boss (like the Royal Rat Vanguard, Phalanx, and Celestial Emissary)! Hey, another clone boss (like Pinwheel and the Witches of Hemwick)! Hey, another gimmick boss (like the Storm King), oh wait, there's two this time! And Aldritch, who I think is supposed to be one of the climaxes of the game, is just a garbage dump modded version of Gwyndolin, with the same music no less, only remixed! I would have preferred some disgusting sludge monster (as he appears to be in the opening cinematic) way more.
- Whereas the level design has improved (for the most part), the visual design hasn't. In fact it might have regressed. Too often this game falls back on impossibly grand, late medieval gothic cathedrals and castles. When it's not doing that, it's fairly basic fantasy fare with forests and caves. Dark Souls 2 at least had No Man's Wharf, Doors of Pharros, Brighstone Cove and Shrine of Amana to name a few unique environments.
- The Catacombs and Demon Ruins. What, did they just copypaste some random layout from Bloodborne's chalice dungeons and change the textures? Some of the blandest, least interesting level design in the entire Soulsborne continuum.
- New game+ seems rather underwhelming. No new enemy placements, twists on bosses or exclusive items aside from +1 rings. After the first playthrough there's little else to discover than trying to do all the NPC questlines and rushing the bosses like mad.

On an unrelated note, Smough's hammer is RIDICULOUS. I beat both Aldritch and Dancer, to whom both I died countless times on my first playthrough, on my very first try. That thing just flattens everything in its way.

In summation I'd say this entry has the least identity of its own. It's hard for me to come up with any good things to say about it that couldn't be applied to every other game in the series as well. There's very little that feels special, new or unique about it. It just feels like more of the same without much consequence.

So, your thoughts?

 

[meiam]

More or less agree, although I'd add linearity to the lazy. DS2 was kinda straight, but nowhere near that amount. Actually most of the stuff I dislike from DS2 (I didn't think DS2 was a bad game, just a step back from DS1) are back for this, more linear not connected world, too many healing item (at least they removed crystal, but so many estus flask all the time), start with fast travel, have to go back to hub area to level up (forcing two load screen for no reason).

The poise mechanic is just weird, I mean we still don't know whether its a bug or working as intended, but its really hard to justify using big armor. It really seems like from/miyazaki just want to abandon shield and defensive play style altogether in exchange for parry/dodge (both of which I hate, i-frame makes me feel like I'm exploiting a glitch and parry is just so ridiculous, a quick shield hit stun more than a giant sword hit to the face?). I actually think shield play style is far more tactical than dodge, since you actually need to keep the layout of the arena in mind along with the enemy move (i.e. where's the deadzone on every enemy attack, cause if you try to block them all your going to end up with no stamina to attack).

Also definitely agree on camera, I didn't even bother trying nameless king because of that first phase.

The boss difficulty was wonky I think, most of the early boss were very easy and then it spiked at the very end, I got more death from any one of champion, twin prince, and the final boss than all the previous boss combined.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

More or less agree, although I'd add linearity to the lazy. DS2 was kinda straight, but nowhere near that amount. Actually most of the stuff I dislike from DS2 (I didn't think DS2 was a bad game, just a step back from DS1) are back for this, more linear not connected world, too many healing item (at least they removed crystal, but so many estus flask all the time), start with fast travel, have to go back to hub area to level up (forcing two load screen for no reason).

Oh shit yeah, definitely. Forgot to add that altogether. Dark Souls 3 feels like it has the least variety on repeat playthroughs: the path through the game is basically always the same. Yes, you can kill Dancer to get to the final areas early, but on New Game that's basically suicide, and on New Game+ you've already seen the game, so it doesn't add much. Pretty much the only variants on how you progress through the game are whether you decide to beat the Catacombs or the Cathedral first, and whether you go after Aldritch or Yhorm first. The rest is pretty much set in stone: only one way out of the High Wall, only one way into Farron Keep, only one way into the Catacombs, only one way through Upper Lothric Castle and so on. Dark Souls 2, for all its linearity, pretty much managed the exact opposite: by storing Fragrant Branches and items like the Silvercat Ring you could access up late game areas from the get go in New Game+, switching the order up a bit.

Also, the lock-on camera, always looking down at the ground instead of showing you what you need to see when fighting multiple opponents or an enemy that's too large.

Actually I discovered this to be a huge problem when fighting with Smough's Hammer: it's probably the biggest weapon in the entire game, and the camera angle is adjusted perfectly that it pretty much always blocks any human-sized enemies entirely, making it nearly impossible to see their attack patterns without constant strafing.

 

[Casual Shinji]

This is probably the first Souls game I started that I won't be finishing (never played DS2). The environments just aren't doing it for me, they lack character and atmosphere. Nothing about the levels or the monsters roaming them is goading me to keep pushing on and exploring further. This for me is usually the most important aspect of an action adventure game, and Dark Souls 3 just kind of fails at it.

 

[1-800-STFU]

I like many things about DS3. I have only three issues.

1. Bosses are too easy. The supposed super hard optional boss was a joke. His first form is easy while cool in scope. 2nd form once you map out his attacks are also easily dodged

2. Broken poise system. It's just nonexistent in PvE. It kind of functions in PvP but it's still bleh.

3. Powerstancing gone. Just doesn't make much sense.....

I play this game for the challenge. The bosses are just not up to par this time. At least the PvP and invasions are great this time around.

 

[1-800-STFU]

I'm sick of the binary damage system. You get hit once and you're stun-locked and killed with a second hit. There are a lot of rapid attacks like this.

Also, the lock-on camera, always looking down at the ground instead of showing you what you need to see when fighting multiple opponents or an enemy that's too large.

Against multiple enemies you usually don't want to stay locked on. It's better to backstab fish too as it slows the game down and lets you plan what to do next.

Knowing how to fight when NOT locked on is an important thing in the Souls games people don't do much.

 

[Fox12]

Yeah, it's phoned in.

I liked the visual aesthetic and costume design, but that's it. They just went through the phases. The only clever bit was patches stealing the fatty armor, since it subverts your expectations. The whole game needed more of that.

All in all, not impressed. I can tell that Miyazaki was clearly focused on Bloodborne, and that this was more of an afterthought. The series has gone hollow. Let's just put it out of its misery.

 

[My name is Fiction]

Well this is my first post in three years.

Spoiler: Wall of text

I think I need some setup to get my feels out on Darksouls 3.

To set the scene I had just entered NG+ as a SL 60. My friend just
beat the game.
I asked him whats his thoughts on it were and he said..
"After I finished the game I checked thw Wiki to see what I missed.
Turns out I 100% the game on my first run."
Now 115 hrs in with multiple pvp builds I feel like I won't pick
this game back up until DLC is released.

Most of my problems are PvP related so i'll get the PvE ones out the way now.

1. While level design was not B teams best strength in DS2 the level concepts were infinitely more interesting.
[sub]OK archdragon peak was pretty neat.[/sub]

2. Damage inflation and lack of real defense.

At SL 90 there are a plethora of weapons that can dish out 600 AR in a single hit.
Yhorn's Great Machete, Dragonslayer greataxe / swordspear.
When it comes to faster weapons you got anri straight sword at 400 and other similar damage profiles
WITHOUT accounting weapon or body buffs.

If this was bloodborn this could still be balanced.
If you want good long fights just have heals your can parry [b/]nope[/b]
Just level yourself to 120 so your defense per level will make such dmg harder to do
Damage reduction curves down sharply beyond 50%
The stat that boosts those scalings is also a dump stat: Vitality.
Because Armor has little use and 70% equip load is still a silk smooth 15 I-Frames you can integrate some of the heaviest weapons and never boost this stat beyond original values.
Because you have so many free points you can do a hollow quality build: 40str 40dex 30luck
Damage absorption is effectively a multiplier on health so Vigor gouging is the only source of survivability.

3. Invading a lone host is as rare and a unicorn.
I am going by memory here so i might be wrong but: In DS2 you could only summon 1 gold and 1 white summon.
In three you can do two whites from the start meaning all invasions are skewered towards 3v1s.
The chance of a red assisting you only comes in with dried finger use which a 4 v any boss is laughable amounts of overkill.

When you banish stone out of a gank squad the first thing in invasion list is that squad because the game doesn't retain memory of what game you left. Meaning as long as they operate there you can't invade period.

 

[Maphysto]

I really don't get people's complaints about the lore/story in this installment. It feels like the story actually moved forward in this one, as compared to DS2's weird, waffling "Oh, well, this takes place in a whole different kingdom except mayyyyyyybe it doesn't? Also nothing makes any logical sense within the framework of DS1, so all we're really doing is writing filler that the next one will have to throw out." The references and callbacks to previous characters never felt heavy-handed to me. It was just enough nostalgia value combined with new ideas and events to keep me interested.

 

[major_chaos]

I think DS3 is actually going to end up my least favorite Dark Souls game. Not saying I think its bad, just a step back and a clear sign that the series needed to end. Specific issues off the top of my head:
1. Bosses are piss easy. Say what you will about 2's "dudes in armor" but at least I felt threatened. Having just beat Abyss Watchers I would still call Gundyr the hardest boss in the game

2. Weapon balance is for shit. Huge numbers of weapons are simply garbage, the dark sword and estoc are both stupidly good for everything, anything that deals slash damage is nigh-useless in PvE due to enemies commonly having massive resistance to it, ect.

3. Why the fuck is power stancing gone? That was one of the coolest things about DS2.

4. Worst world layout in the series by miles. Seriously, its a freaking line. DS1 had a big interconnected world, DS2 had a open hub/spoke layout, DS3 is a line.

5. Actually on that topic fuck the individual levels as well, which have thus far been either boring (Undead village, catacombs) or giant open fields (road of sacrifice, Farron keep) which don't leaving me feeling like I'm exploring so much as meandering in a repetitive search pattern. That said cathedral and high wall were both cool.

 

[Fappy]

I think DS3 is actually going to end up my least favorite Dark Souls game. Not saying I think its bad, just a step back and a clear sign that the series needed to end. Specific issues off the top of my head:
1. Bosses are piss easy. Say what you will about 2's "dudes in armor" but at least I felt threatened. Having just beat Abyss Watchers I would still call Gundyr the hardest boss in the game

The difficulty spikes significantly in the boss department. You're not really far enough to have experienced it, but once you encounter Pontiff the game gets much harder imo.

 

[My name is Fiction]

Welcome back, but how did your friend 100% without a guide? Like the dragon place seems to be hard to find without a guide.

I found it on my first try but missed smouldering lake.
That dragon bro is unique to that zone and his item referenced "seeing a location when meditating.".
with the building in the distance and the emote found later after a dragon boss it seemed like they might be connected.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

- Poise, or rather the lack of such. I can have the most poise possible in the entire game, and still get stunlocked by fucking rats. What is up with this system? Is there something I'm missing here? One of the best things about rolling a tank build in DS2 was to watch the small enemies helplessly chip away at you as you reel up your Big Fucking Sword. Now it's just dodge, dodge, dodge.

Poise is currently bugged and From Software just has it turned off completely for the time being. This means that using heavy armor is absolutely pointless (and also Yhorm's greatshield doesn't do anything at the moment).

This actually makes parts of the game significantly harder than they were meant to be because literally every enemy can stunlock you in place. If you're trying to run a "tanky" build I'd recommend forgoing heavy armor and just going with medium armor and a greatshield.

It's also made most of the really large weapons in the game absurdly impractical in anything but boss fights. There's just no point to using an ultra-greatsword when every enemy can stun-lock you out of your attack.

It's really unfortunate.

It's also made pvp very dependent on fast weapons, and the estoc currently rules them all because quick successive hits from it will hopelessly stunlock an opponent.

It's interesting to me how much different the game will play once (if) they manage to fix poise.

 

[Fappy]

- Poise, or rather the lack of such. I can have the most poise possible in the entire game, and still get stunlocked by fucking rats. What is up with this system? Is there something I'm missing here? One of the best things about rolling a tank build in DS2 was to watch the small enemies helplessly chip away at you as you reel up your Big Fucking Sword. Now it's just dodge, dodge, dodge.

Poise is currently bugged and From Software just has it turned off completely for the time being. This means that using heavy armor is absolutely pointless (and also Yhorm's greatshield doesn't do anything at the moment).

This actually makes parts of the game significantly harder than they were meant to be because literally every enemy can stunlock you in place. If you're trying to run a "tanky" build I'd recommend forgoing heavy armor and just going with medium armor and a greatshield.

It's also made most of the really large weapons in the game absurdly impractical in anything but boss fights. There's just no point to using an ultra-greatsword when every enemy can stun-lock you out of your attack.

It's really unfortunate.

It's also made pvp very dependent on fast weapons, and the estoc currently rules them all because quick successive hits from it will hopelessly stunlock an opponent.

It's interesting to me how much different the game will play once (if) they manage to fix poise.

I find heavy weapons are actually easier for mobs and much harder for boss fights (primarily aggro-y humanoid bosses). I played my first character using the claymore and had a rough time. Second character used a straight sword and I rolled face through the entire game. Just finished NG+ on my second character, this time using the Wolf Greatsword almost the entire playthrough and it worked out incredibly well, to my surprise. Like Bloodborne, I think the heavy weapons just have a higher skillcap. I absolutely wreck shop with greatswords now and almost never get hit by non-bosses. So long as you zone properly you're golden. Even dogs aren't a problem for me anymore.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Poise is currently bugged and From Software just has it turned off completely for the time being. This means that using heavy armor is absolutely pointless (and also Yhorm's greatshield doesn't do anything at the moment).

This actually makes parts of the game significantly harder than they were meant to be because literally every enemy can stunlock you in place. If you're trying to run a "tanky" build I'd recommend forgoing heavy armor and just going with medium armor and a greatshield.

It's also made most of the really large weapons in the game absurdly impractical in anything but boss fights. There's just no point to using an ultra-greatsword when every enemy can stun-lock you out of your attack.

It's really unfortunate.

It's also made pvp very dependent on fast weapons, and the estoc currently rules them all because quick successive hits from it will hopelessly stunlock an opponent.

It's interesting to me how much different the game will play once (if) they manage to fix poise.

Well that explains a lot. Good thing I rolled with a dex/katana build for my first playthrough, since I'd have been really pissed at some of the bosses.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I think DS3 is actually going to end up my least favorite Dark Souls game. Not saying I think its bad, just a step back and a clear sign that the series needed to end. Specific issues off the top of my head:
1. Bosses are piss easy. Say what you will about 2's "dudes in armor" but at least I felt threatened. Having just beat Abyss Watchers I would still call Gundyr the hardest boss in the game

The difficulty spikes significantly in the boss department. You're not really far enough to have experienced it, but once you encounter Pontiff the game gets much harder imo.

It's funny but it seems I've had the opposite experience with bosses than everyone else has had.

It took me 6 or 7 tries to kill Curse Rotted Greatwood. I took Dancer down in 1 try and Nameless King in 2. The boss I had the most trouble with was Aldrich and that was because I didn't have enough stamina to outrun his phase 2 arrow attack. Only reason I managed to beat the bastard was that I had one attempt on him where he didn't use that attack a single time.

 

[gigastar]

Hopefully the expansions will contribute some more decent content to the overall experience.

It's also made pvp very dependent on fast weapons, and the estoc currently rules them all because quick successive hits from it will hopelessly stunlock an opponent.

Not actually true, no weapon i know of can get more than 2 light attacks in before the victim can roll out of it.

The reason why its percieved as a stunlock is becuase most dipshits try to attack as if poise worked in 3 like it did in 1.

In reality, spamming light attacks like that just leaves you extremely vulnerable to being parried.