Dark Souls Review

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

'Stream not found'

Don't know if that's just me or not...

It's a hint that instead of watching this, you could be sitting playing Dark Souls right now.

OT: I am loving this game, I got this and RAGE the same day and I've played about 45 minutes of RAGE and over 30 hours of Dark Souls.

 

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

I want to know what the checkpoint/save system is like.

That's what prevented me from buying Demon's Souls. I don't mind difficulty, but making me repeat obnoxiously large amounts of content because I died to a one-hit-kill enemy is bad design in my book, no matter how you try to pretty it up.

So, what's it like in Dark Souls?

When you die all the enemies do respawn, however this time in Dark Souls you don't go all the way back to the start. You respawn at the last bonfire you rested at. But resting at bonfires also respawn all the enemies, a penalty for them restoring your HP and Estus Flasks (healing items).

 

[ZeroMachine]

It's fair because literally everything in the game has a counter. You can combat EVERYTHING.

Fair =/= easy.

Have you played the game? Literally everything does not have a counter. If you mean, you can move out of the way or block, then you may be right, but that hardly makes it any more fair than any other action role playing game. You can beat any enemy in the game, and you can avoid almost all monster based damage, but that's true for almost every other game I've ever played, and their reviews don't describe them as being super fair.

fair =/= beatable

I currently have 40+ hours sunk into the game.

There isn't a single obstacle I haven't been able to overcome with work, practice, and patience.

I say again, fair =/= easy. NOTHING in the game is "cheap". If you get swarmed by enemies, that's because you didn't prepare properly.

The game requires skill. It is, admittedly, unfair to people who aren't good at games, but as for what you said with it being like "every other action role player game", think of it this way: you don't die dozens of times in those games, on average. They need to make it clear that, even though this game will tear your guts out and eat them with a nice side of onion rings, it is fair and with patience everything can eventually be practically easy.

Right now, I fly through most sections of the game. The only areas that give me trouble are new ones... and Blight Town but fuck that place. Pack up on purple moss before you go there.

As someone said earlier, it's chess, not checkers. It's a good, if not entirely apt metaphor. A brute force attack on the game just won't work. You gotta be smart, predict your enemies, learn their patterns, and then fuck 'em up when they fuck up.

 

[Elric_de_Melnibone]

I would so love it if Dark Souls was released on the PC in the future.

I'd prefer if it was available on the PC right now, personally.
This is the game I want to play, but I won't buy a console for any one game.

 

[ace_of_something]

I loved me some demon's souls. This seems exactly the same... maybe it isn't. I would also like to know if the multiplayer is a bit easier to use. In demon's souls I never found a way that would let me invite specific people (friends) into my game at least not easily. This should be improved upon.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

I want to know what the checkpoint/save system is like.

That's what prevented me from buying Demon's Souls. I don't mind difficulty, but making me repeat obnoxiously large amounts of content because I died to a one-hit-kill enemy is bad design in my book, no matter how you try to pretty it up.

So, what's it like in Dark Souls?

Bonfires are placed about every 5 minutes apart, I'd say. Really depends on the area. And shortcuts are unlocked on a regular basis to make backtracking far less annoying, too. Some shortcuts have made it so that a bonfire is only 30 seconds away from the nearest boss, too. Generally, each bonfire has a "regular" path from it and a "shortcut" path from it. I'm only at the swamp of Blightown, though. Progress is slow since I spent a lot of my early game grinding for Miracles and Pyromancies.

 

[LordXel]

I would love to play this. Never played Demons Souls because I'm a 360 guy, but I just want to play as many good fantasy games as possible. Like Obilivion, only darker and harder.

 

[theultimateend]

"one of the most rewarding and enjoyable titles out right now"

Doesn't that just say 'ever', because old titles are still out, and wouldn't 'ever' or even omitting that be a lot easier to type

These games are considerably harder than any other game I've ever played going back into the 90's.

It's not really my thing. It is easy to make a rock-paper-scissors game, it was the bread and butter of arcades as they tried to milk people for coins. But some folks like the game and I'm happy for those people .

I'm sure if I was back in high school or earlier I'd love this game dearly. I was big on battletoads et al as a kid.

I want to know what the checkpoint/save system is like.

That's what prevented me from buying Demon's Souls. I don't mind difficulty, but making me repeat obnoxiously large amounts of content because I died to a one-hit-kill enemy is bad design in my book, no matter how you try to pretty it up.

So, what's it like in Dark Souls?

Were you here for that big debate about whether the save system was bad design or not? It seemed like anyone who liked DS said it was brilliant and anyone who didn't thought it was horse shit.

If they could have fixed that particular issue I might have no returned the game quite so fast to GameFly. I just have a thing about returning to the same scene multiple times, especially when the work week is so full on busy and short on free time.

 

[Rad Party God]

I'm dissapointed that this game will probably never get a PC release and also I'm dissapointed that I don't have a console, but more importantly, I'm dissapointed that, even if I had a console, I don't have the money to buy the game.

 

[Burst6]

Well, congratulations on your many successes in Dark Souls! I'm glad that the game has been so fair to you (not easy though, not easy).

You have a point. They have to make it clear that the game is winnable by saying that it is fair. A game known for its toughness would sound like a waste of time without that assurance that, when you encounter something, it will be something that can be overcome.

Still, that alone doesn't make it any more fair than any other game, even other games that are considered hard.

I think the fairness comes from the fact that you have a lot of control over your character.

Take modern shooters for example. You have a gun, you have grenades, and you can sprint around a bit faster. Sometimes you can hide behind walls better. The problem is all you can do is hide and peek out to shoot every once in a while. You can't do anything special to kill the hoards of enemies peppering your general area, just peek out and shoot, or toss a grenade once in a while.

If enemies suddenly start getting better AI, hitting harder, or if ranged enemies pepper you with bullets while melee enemies flank you, it suddenly becomes really unfair because there's not a lot you can do.

In dark souls you can get the character to do pretty much anything. You have a lot of ways to dodge, you can carry 4 weapons around at once ( 2 in 1 hand and 2 in the other), you can switch to new weapons anywhere you want, you can wield all weapons with either 1 hand or 2 hands (you can even fight with a shield as your primary weapon), you can block, parry, and shield bash your enemy, you can do a kick to take down enemies who like to use shields a lot (or a fancy dodging move if you're using rapiers or scimitars), you can do a powerful jump attack, and you have a large variety of spells and miracles that can help you.

You have a ton of tools for handling any situation, not just a light attack, hard attack, and block.

 

[jarowdowsky]

This is the best game I've played since...

...

...

This is the best game I've played.

 

[davisjones1287]

I currently have 40+ hours sunk into the game.

There isn't a single obstacle I haven't been able to overcome with work, practice, and patience.

I say again, fair =/= easy. NOTHING in the game is "cheap". If you get swarmed by enemies, that's because you didn't prepare properly.

The game requires skill. It is, admittedly, unfair to people who aren't good at games, but as for what you said with it being like "every other action role player game", think of it this way: you don't die dozens of times in those games, on average. They need to make it clear that, even though this game will tear your guts out and eat them with a nice side of onion rings, it is fair and with patience everything can eventually be practically easy.

Right now, I fly through most sections of the game. The only areas that give me trouble are new ones... and Blight Town but fuck that place. Pack up on purple moss before you go there.

As someone said earlier, it's chess, not checkers. It's a good, if not entirely apt metaphor. A brute force attack on the game just won't work. You gotta be smart, predict your enemies, learn their patterns, and then fuck 'em up when they fuck up.

Well, congratulations on your many successes in Dark Souls! I'm glad that the game has been so fair to you (not easy though, not easy).

You have a point. They have to make it clear that the game is winnable by saying that it is fair. A game known for its toughness would sound like a waste of time without that assurance that, when you encounter something, it will be something that can be overcome.

Still, that alone doesn't make it any more fair than any other game, even other games that are considered hard.

... I'm not clear in what your point is.

You said the game wasn't fair, and that made it hard. Then, the complaint was that it might be fair, but not beatable. Now, it's beatable, but not easy? Need help moving those goalposts?
I

 

[Jadak]

Why does everyone always call these games fair? I played a game where ghosts come through the walls and hit you from every direction, dragon bosses and spear bosses one-shot you if they get the right hit, some monsters are untargetable, and poisonous wasps come at you in unlimited numbers. Sure, it's a fantastic game, but it's far from fair just because these things can be avoided, often with luck playing the biggest part of that avoidance.

If being beatable means that something is fair, then I'm not sure what constitutes an unfair game.

While there are some issues in the game that certainly aren't fair, none of the instances you described are among them. For the ghosts, the ambushes can be spotted going in, and the ghosts are slow enough that backing out again (provided you weren't rushing full speed down unknown hallways) should not be an issue.

For all of the one hit kill still, much of it hard, but much of it also has very specific counters, be it in certain spot where the enemy can't hit you, or in watching the enemies movements, as all instant kill attacks have distinct animations warning you in advance to get the hell out of the way.

Don't know why you mentioned the wasps at all. Sure they're unlimited, but there's only a couple spawn points for them, they only come 2 at a time, and they take forever getting across the map to you. And once they do, they're rather weak anyways. The presence of those wasps actually saved my ass, with the ring that heals you a little with every kill, they're unlimited numbers kept me alive.

And nothing is untargetable, not being able to lock on to something is not the same as not being able to be targeted. But very few things have that trait, and it doesn't make for much of a difference in the places that it does. It only really sucks when dealing with it in PvP.

 

[Jadak]

snip

K. So what's your point? Yea, I know that you can beat those bosses, and the ghosts, and the wasps. Good use of equivocation. Target is not the same as lock on to you, fine. I have to fight some enemies without the benefit of locking on. Because those things can be overcome, describing the game as fair is either inaccurate, or pointless.

If fair just means that you can beat the game, then wooptie doo, every other game is fair too. If fair means that the odds are always even, then it's inaccurate because sometimes I can't lock on (using the implemented target lock), there are two guys, or there are bosses that will one-shot me, and the odds are not even.[/quote]

You're right, fair does mean that it's always even and in that sense, it's not. You have the advantage, it's not "fair" to the bosses. Sure, they can instant kill you, but they can only instant kill you in avoidable, predicable ways that they have to telegraph before using. Sure, it seems not fair when they actually hit you, but they give you ample opportunity to avoid such hits, and more often than not make themselves vulnerable by doing so.

My point, is that everything that seems unfair to you, is limited and/or comes with a great weakness to compensate. The only issue is whether or not you're up to the task of identifying and taking advantage of those weaknesses.

 

[Rayansaki]

It's fair because literally everything in the game has a counter. You can combat EVERYTHING.

Fair =/= easy.

Have you played the game? Literally everything does not have a counter. If you mean, you can move out of the way or block, then you may be right, but that hardly makes it any more fair than any other action role playing game. You can beat any enemy in the game, and you can avoid almost all monster based damage, but that's true for almost every other game I've ever played, and their reviews don't describe them as being super fair.

fair =/= beatable

He meant fair as in, there are no cheap "you took the incorrect passage so you instantly die" or "you built your character wrong so you can't beat this boss". In demon's souls you could beat every boss at level 1 with enough skill and practice. Didn't mean it was easy, it was very hard because enemy damage is a massively higher than other rpg's but everything was dodge-able or block-able. Haven't played dark souls yet but I'd assume it's the same.

 

[RagnaThePig]

I like the game but some bosses are bullshit. The Ceaseless Discharge in particular is ridiculous. Its arm kills you even if it landed 10 meters away.

 

[Jadak]

My point, is that everything that seems unfair to you, is limited and/or comes with a great weakness to compensate. The only issue is whether or not you're up to the task of identifying and taking advantage of those weaknesses.

Yea, but that's how almost every game works. If we use your definition of fair, then almost every game is fair, and mentioning Dark Souls' fairness is pointless.

Exactly, but if it's like every game in that sense, then complaining about it's unfairness is equally pointless.

 

[Godhead]

*sigh* If only this could come out for PC. (Stares longingly at over sized poster with November 11th circled multiple times in bright red.)

 

[TheAmazingHobo]

So yeah, looks like it´s time to actually buy my first console since the original PS.
Honestly, did not expect that to happen, but I just don´t have the power to resist.
At least I heard that the xbox is fairly cheap these days.

 

[Gunner 51]

Having never tried any Nintendo Hard games since the early 90's - I thought Dark Souls was a refreshing change of pace from today's games. But what struck me about the game was that most games when they prove too hard, it'll have me reaching for something easier.

Even if you die a lot, and believe you me - you WILL - it very rarely feels cheap. (With the exception of that arsehole knight in the bottom of the Undead Berg tower with the Alpine Horn. (You'll know him if you see him.)

Though I'm 60 hours in and still haven't got past the Bell Gargoyles yet - I still find myself glued to and loving every minute of the game. I'm totally going to blow my X-box up through overplaying this.