Darkest Dungeon Scam Appears On Official Windows Store - Update

Fanghawk

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Feb 17, 2011
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Darkest Dungeon Scam Appears On Official Windows Store - Update

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Amaror

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Apr 15, 2011
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I looked at the page. Seriously whoever buys into this is an idiot.
4 bucks for 20 dollar game, low-res screenshot with watermarks and grey bars around, way too short description with horrible spelling and pacing issues, agerating of 3+, Classified as a "strategy" game.
 

erbkaiser

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Jun 20, 2009
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The funniest bit is that this 'amazing developer' is taking his screenshots from an unactivated version of Windows even ^_^

Makes me fear Microsoft's idea of a single app environment for the upcoming Windows 10 though. We all know how much of a piracy heaven Windows Mobile is and now it is clear Windows 8 is no better, so should we really trust the same people in Windows 10?
 

Rozalia1

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Something dubious and no "get it while you can"? Than again the writer is different so maybe I'll give the escapist a pass just this once.

Not anyone's fault but their own if they pay to attend some indie show that advertises Doink... and than are shocked when what they get it isn't the late great Matt Osborne, and instead one of the millions of cheap Doinks out there.
 

PunkRex

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Feb 19, 2010
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'Age rating 3+'

Yeah, a game about nether world horrors, creeping insanity and gruesome death is perfect for the kiddies on those long car rides.
 

Arawn

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Dec 18, 2003
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Everyone wants to save money. When looking for a deal, they shut off their other brain functions. Being cheap is one thing, but shouldn't be stupid.
 

Gorrath

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Feb 22, 2013
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Unrelated to the asshattery at hand, I appreciate the disclaimer attached to the news article. In this case it's not needed since the piece does nothing to celebrate the game and is merely reporting the facts but seeing that kind of disclosure is nice. While I'm not a "GGer" I do appreciate such disclosures when it comes to news, any news. Thanks, Fanghawk, even though I realize this is part of The Escapist's rules for disclosure and probably not all that necessary in this instance.
 

MerlinCross

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Apr 22, 2011
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I dunno if I should be surprised that someone is trying to scam Darkest Dungeon this fast or this late.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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MerlinCross said:
I dunno if I should be surprised that someone is trying to scam Darkest Dungeon this fast or this late.
I suspect it's because the game has been pretty bloody successful, another example of what can happen when Kickstarter works properly, but also came with a bit of controversy attached. Basically Red Hook created an exclusive character class specifically for backers. This has lead to a lot of people being upset about never being able to get all the content when they didn't back the game. That said those that backed the game and took the risks (especially those who paid more than $20) are in many cases upset about losing their exclusive benefit if Red Hook was to make this available to everyone, or provide it as buyable DLC later. I haven't followed it recently, but last time I checked Red Hook seemed to be waffling back and forth going by what I was reading in locations like the STEAM forums. Either way they are probably going to slot people off, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are being targeted by people POed in either direction since the game became popular enough for people to actually care.

That said exclusive in-game content is one of the things that those planning a kick starter can promise fairly easily without worrying about the cost of manufacturing and shipping physical goods and the like. If this is any indication, and if I'm correct about what might be going on, it could have some interesting ramifications for the whole system of financing down the road.
 

Fanghawk

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Feb 17, 2011
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Man some people sure are scummy. Like that other game where people were buying the reduced-price Russian copies and selling for a profit.

Also I appreciate the disclosure.
 

wulfy42

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Jan 29, 2009
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I just want to say that while the reviews are all over the place on this game, there have been quite a few people who where not happy with the game in it's current state (It's early access though, so that may change eventually). This should be mentioned though so people have a chance to read up on it's current state before purchasing it while it's still in Early Access. I'm not saying the game is bad myself btw, I'm just trying to balance out the (I felt) very positive spin the game was given by Fanghawk. Many people really like the game as well, but just go into it with your eyes open and realize there is still more changes that will be made to the game before it's done.
 

Dragonlayer

Aka Corporal Yakob
Dec 5, 2013
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josh4president said:
AMBUSHED BY FOUL INVENTION!

Having it taken down is a trifling victory, but a victory nonetheless.
"Curious is the pirate's workcraft, his efficacy witnessed and condemned by all."

OT

Look, the game is only $20 on Steam - I'm poor as feth and even I managed to scrabble together enough spare change to afford that! Don't do this fantastic game a disservice by attempting to steal it!
 

viranimus

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Nov 20, 2009
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Hate to grammar nazi on this buuut.

"Please ensure you purchase the game from Steam or Humble," Red Hook wrote
Kind of hard to "purchase" anything when you acquire nothing of substance from the monetary transaction and the distribution does not actually sell copies of the product.

It is a damned shame how not only gamers do not properly understand what steam is, but even developers dont realize what transaction they are actually performing.

But this dev in particular should not entirely be surprised at cons and scams related to the leasing of copies of their product considering they are encouraging them by trying to make a profit off of their product with their continued ambivalence toward actually selling copies.

In short when you put all your eggs in one basket, you cant be surprised when you have nothing left when someone steals the basket.
 

DementedSheep

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Jan 8, 2010
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I saw that. I was wondering why the hell it was $5 if it was actually Darkest Dungeon. I was going to check it out more but never got around to it. I only briefly looked at it so I didn't notice the watermark and that the publisher names was wrong as well. Glad I didn't buy it without thinking about it!

A shame its not real because it would have been nice to have a decent game on my tablet.
 

A'tuin

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viranimus said:
Hate to grammar nazi on this buuut.

"Please ensure you purchase the game from Steam or Humble," Red Hook wrote
Kind of hard to "purchase" anything when you acquire nothing of substance from the monetary transaction and the distribution does not actually sell copies of the product.

It is a damned shame how not only gamers do not properly understand what steam is, but even developers dont realize what transaction they are actually performing.

But this dev in particular should not entirely be surprised at cons and scams related to the leasing of copies of their product considering they are encouraging them by trying to make a profit off of their product with their continued ambivalence toward actually selling copies.

In short when you put all your eggs in one basket, you cant be surprised when you have nothing left when someone steals the basket.
Just because you have a different opinion on what "purchasing" means, it's kind of condescending to say people don't understand how Steam works. You get a digital copy which is a lot more reliable than physical disc that might easily break or get corrupted otherwise. For example my Might & Magic Heroes VI got corrupted after only 40-50 days while I haven't had a single negative experience in 300+ Steam games. Okay, I was unable to play Worms World Party for a week but now it works perfectly. So I'm pretty sure we "properly understand what Steam is".

"Continued ambivalence toward actually selling copies"? What the what? They are actually selling copies, they're just selling digital copies. I have a difficult time understanding you but are you saying Red Hook had it coming for not selling "real" copies? Scams in Windows store have nothing to do with Steam.

Back to topic: I'm glad they dealt with the scammer because Darkest Dungeon is a great game, one of the few examples of Early Access done right. They have done excellent work with bug fixes and balancing the game, on first week of EA they updated the game practically every day. I can't say "everyone should purchase it now!" yet because it lacks 2 major areas and 33% of the classes, I'm confident DD will be a highly polished game once it's finished. So PURCHASE it DIGITALLY once it's finished, you won't regret it!
 

viranimus

Thread killer
Nov 20, 2009
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A said:
Just because you have a different opinion on what "purchasing" means, it's kind of condescending to say people don't understand how Steam works. You get a digital copy which is a lot more reliable than physical disc that might easily break or get corrupted otherwise. For example my Might & Magic Heroes VI got corrupted after only 40-50 days while I haven't had a single negative experience in 300+ Steam games. Okay, I was unable to play Worms World Party for a week but now it works perfectly. So I'm pretty sure we "properly understand what Steam is".

"Continued ambivalence toward actually selling copies"? What the what? They are actually selling copies, they're just selling digital copies. I have a difficult time understanding you but are you saying Red Hook had it coming for not selling "real" copies? Scams in Windows store have nothing to do with Steam.

Back to topic: I'm glad they dealt with the scammer because Darkest Dungeon is a great game, one of the few examples of Early Access done right. They have done excellent work with bug fixes and balancing the game, on first week of EA they updated the game practically every day. I can't say "everyone should purchase it now!" yet because it lacks 2 major areas and 33% of the classes, I'm confident DD will be a highly polished game once it's finished. So PURCHASE it DIGITALLY once it's finished, you won't regret it!
Thank you for stepping up for illustration. No... it is not a matter of opinion, it is the definition of the word.

verb (used with object), purchased, purchasing.
1.
to acquire by the payment of money or its equivalent; buy.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/purchase

The definition illustrates that the term purchase means to the exchange of currency for the purpose to acquire, possess or otherwise own something. When you buy something through steam you OWN nothing. You are leasing a software license.

: to use (something) for a period of time in return for payment

: to allow someone to use (something) for a period of time in return for payment

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lease


You do not purchase a lease. It is already a verb distinguishing itself as an action and in this case you effectively cannot action an action.

As it relates to Steam, that "period of time" is basically whenever Steam decides to change the terms of the agreement, or no longer continues to support the product.

That is the point. There has not been the first copy of the game purchased anywhere, because what is being transacted is the leasing of a digital license that is revokable at any time with or without reason and with no obligation for recompense to which the consumer has agreed to in advance. Nothing is purchased, because nothing is acquired or owned. Sure, there have been ample licenses leased, but that is not the same thing as purchasing a copy.

Now, going into this level of technicality is why I apologized for grammar nazi'ing. I confessed that it was nitpicking Because the specific line I quoted is worded incorrectly. However, I do so because it is a major problem in this day and age that people have insufficient understanding of the language. Because of that corporations who DO posses proper understanding are both expeditious and meticulous in their ability to both exploit the language and their customers ignorance of it or ambivalence toward it.

No one using steam owns anything. That is not in question. As of this moment that is incontrovertible fact. You are more than welcome to like and support steam all you want, but you do not go to steam to buy games. You go to steam to lease software licenses.

Further clarifying, its digital state is irrelevant to this. You can own digital content no differently than you can own physical media. Distribution of content also is irrelevant. You can own digitally distributed content as well. You simply cannot do it via steam.

Now, I said that people do not understand how steam works, because the vast majority of steam users DO NOT actually know that what they are actually buying is a revokable license to the game software, not an actual copy of the game. That is why it bears repeating as long as it exists. It has been proven time and time again that the average user does fully understand what they are actually agreeing to when they just scroll past ignoring all the terms and conditions that they are expected to abide by so they can just hit Agree and move on. Steam is far from the only corporate entity that engages in this, It is simply that in this specific instance, they are the entity utilizing this profane exploitation.

So I am sorry you have misconstrued my statement to reflect a tone of condescension. There is no condescension. That would imply what I said was resentment towards something instead of what it was in merely stating fact.

So as it relates to Red Hook, they are not selling copies of the game. In fact, they are not even selling the game. Steam is the one doing the "selling", by leasing out early access copies of the software Red Hook has supplied them with. (this will also come back up later).

Now as it relates to what you quoted in "Continued ambivalence toward actually selling copies" what that refers to is Red hook playing this game of stringing people along since Kickstarter vaguely suggesting that the game would be available on other distribution clients other than steam, but has persisted in a pure silent treatment giving no public clarification or even a rough estimate of when or where the game can genuinely be purchased, despite being repeatedly asked by many people all through out its development phase to this point of development.

Now here is the real point where it becomes dodgy. The game was already kickstarted providing a round of funding. Now they "release" the game into early access state via steam, so that they can begin making a profit from the software, but by their own statements, the game is not finished as there are currently percentages of the game yet to be implemented. When it does come up asking when will the game be available to actually purchase, the best that is responded is "We are working on making the game good first", as if the game is functionally finished and simply needs a few tweaks. However it is known that for example as cited earlier in the thread, 1/3rd of the classes are not yet implemented. So this illustrates that the game is not actually finished, yet they are proactively releasing it early so as to gain another boost of funding so the project can move toward completion, despite the kickstarter issuing stated monetary goals to complete the project. So effectively everyone who KS the game, and got their "early release" through obtaining a steam key, in effect had their KS obligation met with an incomplete project. Sure, with the extra funding that they get from early release, they are likely to have the funding to see it through to completion, but it is what it is.

Then, as it relates to Red hook, MS, and steam, as I said. It is a case of putting all your eggs in one basket. Effectively the only point of obtaining the software at the moment is via steam. The project has been one of the more prominent KS recently. There is great concern for someone running a scam trying to make illegitimate profit off of their work through microsoft store. Much of that concern would be for potentially upset customers getting taken for a ride. Had red hook not chosen to try to wring extra funding out to finish the project by pushing an unfinished product out onto the one distribution platform that will allow them to knowingly release an unfinished product, they put all their funding hopes into that one steam basket. So with as anticipated as their release actually was, (just like the other games the scammer was using for their scam) they really should not be all that surprised when someone wants to try to exploit the ignorance of gamers, selling them a false copy of a product on platforms they hypothetically be able to logically look for it to be available on. Should they be proactive in stopping it, absolutely. But surprised? No. It would be comparable to being surprised that the game eventually gets pirated at some point. You know how human beings are, you know the types of things they will do, So no, you should not be surprised when people do what people do.

So to conclude, I am sorry you had such difficulty understanding what I said, or my reasoning for saying it. I have done my best to clarify the position and clear up misunderstandings around it. Ive stated my opinion, Ive clarified it, but with all due respect I will not argue it. My position has been made clear and there is nothing to gain having to repeat what I have just said. So I thank you for your reply and hope that has helped to improve the understanding of any who have read it. Though I do respect human nature and fully understand that most people are likely going file it under the category TL;DR, just like they do for most EULAs.


Edit: Captcha= Groundhog day.

SCREW YOU WICKED WEATHER WEASEL! I HOPE YOU FREEZE TO DEATH!