There was so much bull shit and confusion in reading and looking at the description of War I gave up. I couldnt keep track of what was what. Not Yahtzee's fault. That's just the only way to describe a terrible character.
Darksiders
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
While I do agree with the idea of trimming back the design some would have made the character more believable I would also like to point out that this is a character with inspiration from a fictional story. (and before I get bashed for saying anything about the bible go read the old testament first. Nothing to do with 4 horseman or an Antichrist or anything like that.) Sense when in the realm of fiction dose it say everything that is fake must be real? if War is truly a being of some greater power then is it not feasible that he would wear armor like what is in the game and wield a sword the same height as him? Hell Cloud and Sepieroth did it in FF VII and everybody gets all upset when ever you say "it is impossible to use a sword like that". War is NOT human. Let me repeat that...WAR IS NOT HUMAN. if the story about the 4 horseman were true, Do you think this living incarnation of man greatest threat to itself would just look like some schmuck walking down the street? HELL NO! He would look similar to what he looked like in Darksiders. If it even resembled a man at all. I am getting tired of people saying he doesn't look real. Then what in the hell is he supposed to look like? Break out of this narrow minded way of thinking that all game characters should be believable looking. Just to name a few that look nothing like real people: Lara croft, Mario, Samus aran, Kirby, Kratos, Jak, Crash bandicoot. If you want realism go play Modern warfare 2 and leave those of us who know that games are not real and should be designed that way alone.
I'm guessing since you're not down with the whole symbolism thing, you're also not too good with irony.ostro-whiskey said:
It is not at all stupid to criticise the practicality of fantasy. You only achieve willing suspension of disbelief if you have coherent logic behind the fantastical concepts you introduce into the world. In literature, a plot resolution achieved through an external device is known as "deus ex machina", and it tends to alienate readers because if you establish boundaries with logical limits, you're expected to stay within them for a resolution. The same principle applies to the practicality of fantasy designs. If we see characters fighting with swords, we expect primitive combat governed by the laws of physics. If you break something like this and create a justification for it that doesn't fit coherently into the overall tenor of your fantasy world, it makes it harder for audiences to willingly suspend disbelief.
I think War's design was based around the fact that hoods look badass. Then after the hood, they just didn't stop.
I've always thought that a character design is best when it can be a complete silloutte, and you'll still be able to tell who it is.
I'm not sure it's a matter of believeability, just a matter of too much design. Alot of stuff on a character can look good occasionally, but War does have something off, maybe it's his long hair, maybe he's possessing a Sephiroth style. Why would you want to hide that?
Or possibly it's the shade of red, it's fairly reddish-pink.
I've always thought that a character design is best when it can be a complete silloutte, and you'll still be able to tell who it is.
I'm not sure it's a matter of believeability, just a matter of too much design. Alot of stuff on a character can look good occasionally, but War does have something off, maybe it's his long hair, maybe he's possessing a Sephiroth style. Why would you want to hide that?
Or possibly it's the shade of red, it's fairly reddish-pink.
I just voiced my opinion. I was simply offering a rebuttal to his opinion of the game. Am I out to change his mind? No. Nor would I want to. He is his own man. I was just trying to bring a bit of rationael to the forum. Snowball's chance in hell, I know. And I had no trouble finding him on the screen when the fighting got chaotic. Maybe you should have your eyes checked.Fronzel said:
If you mean an irrational rationale then you sure succeeded. The exact opposite argument can be made using your "logic". This opposite argument is also what helps people suspend disbelief as others have said.Myster XIII said:
This article givs me two types of reactions. One is agreement on TF2 character design. It's perfect, one of the best designs for a video game ever.
However the War thing... you're overanalyzing it. By a mile. I look at War, what do I see? A big, burly juggernaut-type dude with a huge sword and a powerfist (yes, it's a goddamn powerfist, THAT'S why it is so big). I have no doubts - if this guy landed on Earth, apocalypse would go down and no one would be able to stop this armored mass of destruction. He isn't supposed to take off his armor ever, why would the Horseman of Apocalypse ever do so? I imagine them being in stasis or something, waiting for their day to come, rather than sitting on their couch, drinking beer and watching reality TV, in which case their armor would indeed be impractical. But they don't. They are living weapons, nothing more. The bigger morality damage such weapon can inflict on the enemy, the more effect it has. I'd personally shit my pants when a guy like this trucked at me.
Oh my, I understood the character just by looking at him. Mission accomplished, no?
Really, Yahtzee is nitpicking. The game is SUPPOSED to be over the top comic book inspired fantasy. Will you rip on DMC and Bayonetta for their designs too? You sure could, but would that serve any purpose in games that are meant to be over the top in every way? The same thing is with nitpicking W40k. It's meant to be over the top, it's not meant to be taken very seriously, it's like that for the sake of fun. Also, the Space Marines use swords along with bolters not because they are supposed to be somewhat knightly, but moreso because it is more efficient when fighting foes that favor melee (which there are a metric ton in 40k).
You know, isn't there a reason why there are art galleries along with comic book stores, and not just one of them? Because people like variety. Variety is good. I can enjoy a well designed and practical looking characters like the TF2 cast (then again, they are just humans that have somewhat normal lives outside their mercenary work, so it's hardly a wonder that they look practical) just as much as I can enjoy an over the top masculine comic book powerfantasy such as Darksiders. Variety is the spice of life.
However the War thing... you're overanalyzing it. By a mile. I look at War, what do I see? A big, burly juggernaut-type dude with a huge sword and a powerfist (yes, it's a goddamn powerfist, THAT'S why it is so big). I have no doubts - if this guy landed on Earth, apocalypse would go down and no one would be able to stop this armored mass of destruction. He isn't supposed to take off his armor ever, why would the Horseman of Apocalypse ever do so? I imagine them being in stasis or something, waiting for their day to come, rather than sitting on their couch, drinking beer and watching reality TV, in which case their armor would indeed be impractical. But they don't. They are living weapons, nothing more. The bigger morality damage such weapon can inflict on the enemy, the more effect it has. I'd personally shit my pants when a guy like this trucked at me.
Oh my, I understood the character just by looking at him. Mission accomplished, no?
Really, Yahtzee is nitpicking. The game is SUPPOSED to be over the top comic book inspired fantasy. Will you rip on DMC and Bayonetta for their designs too? You sure could, but would that serve any purpose in games that are meant to be over the top in every way? The same thing is with nitpicking W40k. It's meant to be over the top, it's not meant to be taken very seriously, it's like that for the sake of fun. Also, the Space Marines use swords along with bolters not because they are supposed to be somewhat knightly, but moreso because it is more efficient when fighting foes that favor melee (which there are a metric ton in 40k).
You know, isn't there a reason why there are art galleries along with comic book stores, and not just one of them? Because people like variety. Variety is good. I can enjoy a well designed and practical looking characters like the TF2 cast (then again, they are just humans that have somewhat normal lives outside their mercenary work, so it's hardly a wonder that they look practical) just as much as I can enjoy an over the top masculine comic book powerfantasy such as Darksiders. Variety is the spice of life.
I don't think it is over analyzing things to say that War looks like a complete idiot. I'm having trouble even understanding why people argue that he wouldn't take off his armor when you could easily say that he doesn't even need his armor to begin with. Berserk has better armor designs than this game because the artist knows when to stop drawing. http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/berserk/images/b/be/Berserker03.jpg (Not the best shot but I couldn't find anything bigger.)Eversor said:
Bayonetta's head is improperly proportioned which ends up making her look weird. Even the dev team for the game by Kamiya's own admission favored Jeanne (Whose head more closely matches her body.) over Bayonetta.
How can you claim to know the logic behind a fantasy concept. The fact that it is fantasy is indicative that our logic does not comply. We can safely assume that the guy from Darksiders is closer to a robot than a human, therefore you point is, once again, idiotic. You have yet to clarify what you meant by the "symbolic contents" of the armor, ofcoure its quite likely you were just talking out of your ass.Shamanic Rhythm said:
Uhh there is logic in every single fantasy story that there is. Only a fool tries to argue that our logic does not apply when our logic is applied to these worlds all the time.ostro-whiskey said:
I think that comparison might be more than a joke.s69-5 said:Oh Snap!The Great JT said:
Liefeld is the worst comic book artist to have ever been given a major comic book contract.
there should be a second head growing out of Caps shoulders
I quite enjoyed this extra punctuation.
Maybe War's outfit comes from not being able to decide which armour he likes best out of all the wars there have been. loser
Maybe War's outfit comes from not being able to decide which armour he likes best out of all the wars there have been. loser
That design is dependent entirely on personal preference. I can't tell what exactly is that thing supposed to be in that picture. Is that a minion? A main villain? The antihero or hero? A statue? I honestly can't tell. What I can tell is that it's someone in a platemail suit. That's about it. Is it better than War? Eye of the Beholder, man. To me, it looks lacking, plain and rather fragile without any knowledge on the subject matter it is taken from.shadow skill said:
As for Bayonetta, my comparison is more for the overall design, not the design of the specific character. That game has quite some extraordinary stuff going around everywhere, which sets the tone for the game and adds to the atmosphere. You take the main character out of it and throw her in, say, Modern Warfare 2 and it will be so out of place it's not even funny. While in Bayonetta, it works, because the entire game is supposed to be with extraordinary style, eccentric moves and piles of sexual innuendo. When you take something like that apart outside it's world, of course it will seem silly.
Ohh, you must be referring to the logic of magic, and midichlorians. Lets not forget the logic of monsters and the supernatural. Nice one douchebag.shadow skill said:
ostro-whisky, let me just say that insulting people does not do your cause any good, in fact, it makes me more biased against you. but if i return to your original arguement, i would have to say that i disagree, reguardless of the effect your attacks on people have had on me. practicality is important in fantasy even with suspense of disbelief, as it adds to immersion, a person will be more willing to accept the "impossible" if they can see some sense of purpose and reason.
(I also have a question. Does fantasy NEED a suspension of disbelief? i have seen authors manipulate my disbelief to further plot lines and so i question the notion. then again, i hear the term thrown around so often that i believe it is an accepted fact. perhaps i am just lacking clarification?)
EDIT: not having played the game, if i were to picture who i thought war was, it wouldn't be crazily large amounts of armour, it would be just the right amount of practical armour, big piles of needless armour just sounds like trying to impress someone and i can't really see how war would feel so dependent on other peoples goodwill.
(I also have a question. Does fantasy NEED a suspension of disbelief? i have seen authors manipulate my disbelief to further plot lines and so i question the notion. then again, i hear the term thrown around so often that i believe it is an accepted fact. perhaps i am just lacking clarification?)
EDIT: not having played the game, if i were to picture who i thought war was, it wouldn't be crazily large amounts of armour, it would be just the right amount of practical armour, big piles of needless armour just sounds like trying to impress someone and i can't really see how war would feel so dependent on other peoples goodwill.