Day one DLC?

[Twilight_guy]

Of course people would be happy if it was 3 months later. Then they could tell themselves that the developers were working on this outside of the magical time-limit where apparently gamers own there souls and they are the customers ***** and must give them anything they develop during that time. Honestly it might be more lucrative to pay developers to do nothing during down time just to keep the whinny gamers from starting hate campaigns when developers create material during the end of a game cycle. Nevermind if they had originally planned this in the first place and thus it has always been DLC or you know the developers thoughts on the issues in general since that would get in the way of all this rage. Honestly, if this weren't all based on a set of largely irrational notions then I'd be more sympathetic but all I've heard so far is a mountain of things that are either dumb or I don't agree with.

 

[juraigamer]

We have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise it will just get worse.

 

[Nathias Mansel]

Hasn't it already been explained that the game was ready for the original release date (like almost 3 months ago I believe) but a publishing concern pushed the date back to now. That's when Bioware decided to release the Prothean dlc on day one, because this is about when normal dlc would be coming out anyway. My point being, it's not just cashing in on extra money, Bioware is trying not to punish its players anymore because of the delay in release

 

[Aris Khandr]

I can refute those points easily, because you basically just repeated what you said in your first reply to me, with the addition of you thinking that if they did delay it then they wouldn't add more level content to the DLC (which to be fair, they probably wouldn't. it's EA).

However I really can't be bothered to argue about this. neither of us are going to change our opinion on the matter so i'm going to stop this here.

No, really, I want to know. Why is it okay to be upset about "not getting your money's worth" because of the DLC, but totally acceptable to delay a part of the CE for those of us who paid for it? Because with the non-CE game, you get exactly what they told you that you would. But if they delayed that character, suddenly the CE is *actually* missing part of the advertised package. Not perception, not "they developed it before launch so we deserve it", something they really advertised and then failed to deliver. Why is that okay?

 

[Furioso]

I don't think it would be as big of a deal if it wasn't a prothean, I mean finding a live one sounds like a gargantuan plot point, so it really seems like they are slicing out core parts of the game, also, didn't they do the exact same thing for Zaeed in 2, but he was free if you bought the game new? And this one is 10 bucks? What the hell!

 

[Wuvlycuddles]

Well I got the PS3 edition so all the DLC but one came with it, but thats not the point. All developers charge for DLC now, and it's rare if they give it to us for free. All the DLC does it let you recruit the new character. It's not going to change the lore and it's not going to alter your experence that much so I don't see whats the problem charging for something optional. It would be nice if it was free but in their goals it goes money first then fans and thats just a fact of business. Also wasn't trying to imply you weren't a fan just trying to fraze a Bioware video.

Oh so we should just hand over our money for a crappy bit of dlc they farted out over an evening?

I think you are missing my point, which is that other companies manage to not only offer better dlc cheaper/more content at the same price but also manage to generate a lot of goodwill toward their company which ensures that we will purchase future products from them. Hell, even if they don't care about the consumer at least other companies at least pretend to care. And don't give me any of that good business guff, other companies have set the standards and EA/Bioware are flying well below them.

 

[guitarsniper]

I feel like some small part of me is hoping, and I know it's incredibly stupid and illogical, but that if I buy enough Bioware games they'll make themselves enough money to buy themselves out from under EA, and continue to be one of the best groups of storytellers in the medium without all of the EA BS. That would, obviously, be ideal. Unfortunately it will never happen.

I have the same problem with EA that I do with Ubisoft. I absolutely love a very large number of games that each publisher has put out. Unfortunately, I hate them as publishers and the way they treat their consumers.

I also feel like if Mass Effect 3 and Skyrim can both sell well and be challengers to games like Call of Duty, that says good things about where the industry is heading, at least in terms of respecting the single-player experience (Skyrim) and the value of strong story, characters, and world-building (Mass Effect 3 and somewhat Skyrim for the world-building bit).

Here endeth the only somewhat on-topic grab-bag of my thoughts on related topics.

 

[boag]

I don't think it would be as big of a deal if it wasn't a prothean, I mean finding a live one sounds like a gargantuan plot point, so it really seems like they are slicing out core parts of the game, also, didn't they do the exact same thing for Zaeed in 2, but he was free if you bought the game new? And this one is 10 bucks? What the hell!

I assure you, the Prothean is not a Gargantuan Plot point, he does give very colorful insights into the Lore of the ME universe, but he isnt really that important to the plot of the main game.

Well I got the PS3 edition so all the DLC but one came with it, but thats not the point. All developers charge for DLC now, and it's rare if they give it to us for free. All the DLC does it let you recruit the new character. It's not going to change the lore and it's not going to alter your experence that much so I don't see whats the problem charging for something optional. It would be nice if it was free but in their goals it goes money first then fans and thats just a fact of business. Also wasn't trying to imply you weren't a fan just trying to fraze a Bioware video.

Oh so we should just hand over our money for a crappy bit of dlc they farted out over an evening? Thats your prerogative, luckily enough the DLC seems to add lots of bioware dialogue to the mix, is that a good thing or a bad thing, well that is certainly an opinion that people will have to form for themselves.

I think you are missing my point, which is that other companies manage to not only offer better dlc cheaper/more content at the same price but also manage to generate a lot of goodwill toward their company which ensures that we will purchase future products from them.

Yes they do, that is why you are absolutely free to purchase their products and support them, if you disagree with anything a company does, you are free to also not buy their products and not support them, but demand that they give you free content just because another company does it, and then getting angry when they say no and venting over it on the internet will not endear you to people that do not hold your same line of thought, or that are satisfied with their experiences with the company you dont agree with


Hell, even if they don't care about the consumer at least other companies at least pretend to care. And don't give me any of that good business guff, other companies have set the standards and EA/Bioware are flying well below them.

you are free not to buy their products.

 

[spectrenihlus]

*edit* i did laugh at myself defending EA and bioware in this when at this stage it will be the last bioware game i purchase

Mhmmm , SUUUUUUURE IT IS. You say that now but then you see the trailer for their next original game and that armor slowly whittles away. Perhaps you will have the fortitude to boycott the game at first but then you get curious after the multitude of memes that originate from the game so you watch videos on youtube and go ooh look how awesome that game is. Let's be honest with ourselves you may not like EA/Bioware but they make a damn good product. Don't deny it you know it to be true =P

 

[Blazing Steel]

Well I got the PS3 edition so all the DLC but one came with it, but thats not the point. All developers charge for DLC now, and it's rare if they give it to us for free. All the DLC does it let you recruit the new character. It's not going to change the lore and it's not going to alter your experence that much so I don't see whats the problem charging for something optional. It would be nice if it was free but in their goals it goes money first then fans and thats just a fact of business. Also wasn't trying to imply you weren't a fan just trying to fraze a Bioware video.

Oh so we should just hand over our money for a crappy bit of dlc they farted out over an evening?

I think you are missing my point, which is that other companies manage to not only offer better dlc cheaper/more content at the same price but also manage to generate a lot of goodwill toward their company which ensures that we will purchase future products from them. Hell, even if they don't care about the consumer at least other companies at least pretend to care. And don't give me any of that good business guff, other companies have set the standards and EA/Bioware are flying well below them.

For me the DLC is worth the time I will spend playing the game. Also Activision offers lots of cod maps for around the same price and everyone loves them for it. Right?

Look I understand that it's not the biggest DLC in the world, but if you break down Call of Duty Elite then you end up playing a couple of quid for a map, or horse armor which PC moded in, but console gamers were charged. We've have been paying for little things for a long time. I personally judge how much I spend to my time/enjoyment to see whether I buy the DLC. In Mass Effect 3's case I will pay because of the time spent enjoying it.

If you want something extra eg. cheese in a burger you have to pay for it no matter how small.

 

[FEichinger]

... I really dunno what to say here, but I'll try regardless ...
Pricing on Games is still a major issue. We pay 50 bucks, plus DLC. Compare that to games from the past decades without DLC: 50 bucks, nothing else.
Yes, sure, the games with DLC offer more content, and as such need to be more expensive ... But paying around a hundred bucks on the full potential of a game (or, as we have those precious figures of around ... 500 bucks for all ME3 content, iirc), is overpriced. Sure, production is expensive ... But this goes straight against the principles of a free market ...
As consumers we should demand the lowest price possible. And right now we're doing the exact opposite: Pay whatever we can afford.
A movie with a similar budget to a current gen AAA game goes to the theatres with 10 to 20 bucks ticket prices ... Don't tell me there are more movie consumers than gamers ... Even if there are, it's definitely not three-fold or more.

 

[boag]

... I really dunno what to say here, but I'll try regardless ...
Pricing on Games is still a major issue. We pay 50 bucks, plus DLC. Compare that to games from the past decades without DLC: 50 bucks, nothing else.
Teh decade before that, you would pay 80 for a game that had no ending and was the same rehashed level over and over again.

Yes, sure, the games with DLC offer more content, and as such need to be more expensive ... But paying around a hundred bucks on the full potential of a game (or, as we have those precious figures of around ... 500 bucks for all ME3 content, iirc), is overpriced. Sure, production is expensive

Flawed argument, based on flawed information, you do not have to pay 500 dollars for the full potential just yet, at most you pay 80 for CE which already has all the main game DLC, and 25 bucks for a rifle that will be available only for Multiplayer.

... But this goes straight against the principles of a free market ...

No it doesnt, supply and demand is the heart of the free market, if supply high, price drops, if Demand is high, Prices Rise.

As consumers we should demand the lowest price possible.

This is correct

And right now we're doing the exact opposite: Pay whatever we can afford.

Thats your opinion on your habits, dont speak for other people or generalize

A movie with a similar budget to a current gen AAA game goes to the theatres with 10 to 20 bucks ticket prices
... Don't tell me there are more movie consumers than gamers ... Even if there are, it's definitely not three-fold or more.

a movie that will provide an hour of entertainment for 10-20 dollars, agaisnt a game that will provide 50 or 60 hours of entertainment for 60-80 dollars.

I leave the math up to you.

 

[Stukov Wolfwood]

the dlc of one character for expensive game cost way more than buying various, full and awesome games off steam. Ot even just play one of the many good free to play steam games.

Steam is not a monopoly, in my eyes they are just the ones that offer the better service.

Also if you are going to buy it, buy it.

if you feel they are ripping you off, don't buy it.

Simple as that,we don't need 7 threads to complain about this game, especialy when it just turn into a flamewar within 3 post of people saying we are entitled or not to content.

touhg i really wish we could go back to the times when dlc was called and expansion pack and could be consider a game on it's own merits. (the closer to that this generation being the lost and dammed and ballad of gay tony for gta 4)

 

[malestrithe]

If the DLC is something the game needs to have for it to be complete, like the game was shipped without the entire end missions, and the company is asking you to pay something to get it, then yes that's a reason to be upset. They did not provide a complete experience and they expect you to pay for their incomplete work, which is not really fair for me the consumer.

If the DLC adds nothing to main missions and only provides ancillary things like extra racial choices, side quests, new areas to explore, and ultra powerful weapons and armor, then I would not mind paying a little extra for it.

This extra DLC clearly does nothing to the main game and having it is not necessary, so quit acting like little children and either pay for it or ignore it entirely. This little asinine kvetching on the Internet means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

[scar_47]

Extra content that required extra time and money to produce should cost extra, you wouldn't work extra hours without pay would you? As long as we're not just downloading an unlock file for content already on the disk I'm fine with it. Theres a myriad of reasons content couldn't be included in the base game, such as keeping with the production schedule, adding the content screws up already finished portions of the game, and others.

 

[Diablo2000]

The problem is not "I have to pay extra for a character", I don't have problem if they are good character. The problem is that day one DLC passes a massage and that massage is "We could have included that in the game but we decided to make a few extra bucks instead so suck it up, you worthless worm, we know you buy it anyway"

That sad thing is we will buy it anyway...

I don't mean to be 'that guy' but a 'massage' is something which can involve backrubs and oil. I think you were meant to say 'message'. It's impossible to say that without sounding like adouche but they're two different words.

OT: It's what this guy was saying, they could (should) have easily included the character into the game, and they should have, because it was ready by the game's release date, or they could have at least held the DLC for a later release so it's clear what significance the character holds within the game's story.

It's alright grammar nazi... English isn't my first language anyway.

OT: I am not against DLC, I do pay for them if they are good DLC like the Read Dead Redemption Undead Nightmare or the GTA IV episodes... I am against that kind of DLC that cut contend of the original game in order to make more money, like that "From Ashes".

 

[Monkeyman O'Brien]

Okay seriously, fuck off. We are up to like 50,002 of these goddamn threads now and not one of them brings up any new or interesting points.
This is another reason people leave the escapist forums, everyone here is just so goddamn unoriginal and recycles the same threads over and over thinking their opinion is somehow worth a new topic.

But on topic for the 50,002nd time. Day One DLC is a problem because even though they claim they don't start it until the game has already gone to print, for a large portion of shit it is clear that they had it all planned beforehand. Unless they just wrote the story, planned out how it fit into the universe and programmed it all within 3 months which aint fucking likely.

 

[boag]

Okay seriously, fuck off. We are up to like 50,002 of these goddamn threads now and not one of them brings up any new or interesting points.
Endings, sheps underwear

This is another reason people leave the escapist forums, everyone here is just so goddamn unoriginal and recycles the same threads over and over thinking their opinion is somehow worth a new topic.

But on topic for the 50,002nd time. Day One DLC is a problem because even though they claim they don't start it until the game has already gone to print, for a large portion of shit it is clear that they had it all planned beforehand. Unless they just wrote the story, planned out how it fit into the universe and programmed it all within 3 months which aint fucking likely.

It was planned, it doesnt really have an impact on the main story anymore.

 

[The Heik]

The problem is not "I have to pay extra for a character", I don't have problem if they are good character. The problem is that day one DLC passes a massage and that massage is "We could have included that in the game but we decided to make a few extra bucks instead so suck it up, you worthless worm, we know you buy it anyway"

They did put it into the game. In the Collector's Edition. Which they told you they were going to do months ago.

So my options are pay more for it or pay more for it?

Yes, because it's elective content aka not necessary to beat the game, and expecting to get additional non-crucial content for free makes you sound like an entitled child. Speaking as a game artist in training, if I heard that people wanted me to put dozens of hours of effort into making a cool add-on, then have them expect to get it for free, I'd have a very strong urge to barbecue them over a volcano. You didn't pay for this add on, so you won't get it. Stop whining about it.

 

[Diablo2000]

The problem is not "I have to pay extra for a character", I don't have problem if they are good character. The problem is that day one DLC passes a massage and that massage is "We could have included that in the game but we decided to make a few extra bucks instead so suck it up, you worthless worm, we know you buy it anyway"

They did put it into the game. In the Collector's Edition. Which they told you they were going to do months ago.

So my options are pay more for it or pay more for it?

Yes, because it's elective content aka not necessary to beat the game, and expecting to get additional non-crucial content for free makes you sound like an entitled child.Speaking as a game artist in training, if I heard that people wanted me to put dozens of hours of effort into making a cool add-on, then have them expect to get it for free, I'd have a very strong urge to barbecue them over a volcano. You didn't pay for this add on, so you won't get it. Stop whining about it.

Alright I will say this once more with my caps lock on this time around... I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH DLC! I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM OF THEY CUTTING CONTENT IN THE GAME AND SELLING TO ME LATER ON(GREAT DEAL OF GOOD DLC WAS BORN THAT WAY)! MY PROBLEM IS THEY COULD HAVE INCLUDED THAT IN THE FUCKING GAME AND DECIDED THAT THEY WOULDN'T DO IT IN FAVOR OF SOME EXTRA BUCKS.

I'm not child, I don't expect to simply be given everything for free. I will probably ending up paying the extra for it and however is released later if I feel it's worth it. Doesn't make me feel any less cheated thought.